Author Topic: Scoping new 1895 vs. receiver peep (Read 6325 times)

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #30 on:** April 02, 2008, 04:22:28 AM »

For hunting I'd use a scope...How much carrying are you going to be doing sitting in a stand?

Here in MS we have a 4pt or better with a 10in spread on deer....Its much easier to estimate what your shooting with a scope.....

Cottonwood · « **Reply #31 on:** May 11, 2008, 02:54:06 AM »

I just went down yesterday to see Tim Skinner of Skinner Sights and put one on my 1895G and one on my son's 336C. This sight makes all the differance in the world to me as I can now shoot without my glasses and or a scope. To me a scope on a levergun is just plain FUGLY LOOKING, but to each his own.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 11, 2008, 03:04:30 PM »

FWIW, It's not a good idea to use the rifle's scope as a spotter - that "deer" could just turn out to be a human holding a branch for some silly reason.

I've caught other hunters "scoping" me, and have taken them to task for it, more than once over the years. I shoot back.

BTW - I've found that most leverguns give just about equal accuracy, with or without a scope - so unless you need a scope for vision shortfalls, these guns are lighter & handier with irons or peeps.
Keep in mind - They are relatively short range game guns, not long range target rifles.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #33 on:** May 11, 2008, 04:07:58 PM »

I have to say I use 4 types of sights on my guns. Very few open sights work for these old eyes, but I have a few that do. Have a scout mount on an 1894 Marlin that works well, puts a little more weight out front where it's welcome, have tryed red dots as well and they work also. Have Peep sights on a couple, I just take the aputure out and use them as ghost rings. Then I have some 1.5 and 2.5 K weavers that I like well. I would probably shoot better if I didn't have so many types, but what fun is that?

It all depends on where I'm going hunting as to what I take to shoot. Not afraid to pass on a shot if I'm not sure on the outcome. That is part of being a good hunter. Plenty more times to try again, and if not, I've had my share anyway.

DP.

canon6 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 12, 2008, 01:04:06 PM »

My older eyes like either receiver or low powered scopes, so I have both. Skinner receiver, 2.5 EER Leupold, , xs base and QR rings. Doug

Cottonwood · « **Reply #35 on:** May 13, 2008, 02:02:35 AM »

Quote from: canon6 on May 12, 2008, 01:04:06 PM

My older eyes like either receiver or low powered scopes, so I have both. Skinner receiver, 2.5 EER Leupold, , xs base and QR rings. Doug

canon6 how does that scout setup work for you? Does the scope when removed return to zero each time?

Davemuzz · « **Reply #36 on:** May 13, 2008, 03:01:10 AM »

Doug.....your my kind of guy! We could have a coffee on the porch while waitn for the groundhog to show up! You posted it twice.....I'll bet you turn around and say "Did I tell you that........"

Hey....I'm not makin fun.......I do that all the time!

Dave

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #37 on:** May 14, 2008, 01:39:34 AM »

I use both scoped and unscoped Marlins and enjoy both. Last week I put a Marble's front post on my 1895-the one with a white bead. Viewed through my Skinner receiver sight, that bead stands out like a beacon-even in the dark stuff. Haven't yet gotten the system to the range, but I think this has real possibilities for practical woods hunting.

canon6 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 14, 2008, 01:58:59 PM »

Sorry for the double post

, and as for return to zero.If there is a difference I cannot tell it.Of course I may not be enough of a shot to notice

and the coffee on the front porch sounds as fine as frog hair. Doug

Old Grizz · « **Reply #39 on:** May 14, 2008, 02:01:20 PM »

Quote from: The Montanan on May 11, 2008, 02:54:06 AM

I just went down yesterday to see Tim Skinner of Skinner Sights and put one on my 1895G and one on my son's 336C. This sight makes all the differance in the world to me as I can now shoot without my glasses and or a scope. To me a scope on a levergun is just plain FUGLY LOOKING, but to each his own.

I just installed one of his barrel peep sights on my Henry Golden Boy and what a difference in my groups. He builds good solid sights and they look good too./b]

bilmac · « **Reply #40 on:** May 22, 2008, 02:47:41 AM »

I love to carry my Marlin without a scope, don't even need a sling, even a small bolt gun without a scope is so much nicer to carry, but whenever I use a peep in the woods I am always unsure about shot placement. I can see hair, but can't tell if I'll hit the rib cage or too far back. Open country with good light is different, much easier to place the shot.

It sounds like a peep that mounts to the scope base is available now and that is definately the best of both worlds. I made just such a site years ago, but when it was all done the front site was so high that I always worried about knocking it off, well I guess I always had the scope for backup, ha ha .

One thing I discovered about peeps is to avoid beads like the plague and always use a flat top post like the military. What I was doing way back when was carefully sighting in to put the group at the center of the bead. Then when I would go hunting in the excitement use the top of the bead and shoot the legs out from under my poor victum. Now I at least square up the top of any bead I'm going to shoot with and to do a nicer job usually rebuild the front sight. No ambiguity with a nice square post, the military knows that and I learned the hard way.

MISSEDSHOT · « **Reply #41 on:** August 29, 2008, 04:51:07 PM »

Can't remember the sight, but a man mounted a one-piece weaver base on his 1895,cutting the last screw hole off,just enough to mount a Williams 5-D peep on his gun,he completely removed his appature[sp] and mounted a low power scope with quick release rings.I liked his idea but I would use high ,see-thru rings in addition to this.

bilmac · « **Reply #42 on:** August 30, 2008, 03:50:57 AM »

You have to loose your cheek contact with the stock to use a high mounted scope, especially with a rifle with a stock designed to be used with the iron sights. The military calls it your stock weld and it is important. Getting your eye correctly placed behind a high mounted scope will cost you time with a rifle that is known for it's fast almost instinctive handling.

Keith L · « **Reply #43 on:** August 30, 2008, 04:13:32 AM »

Quote from: bilmac on August 30, 2008, 03:50:57 AM

You have to loose your cheek contact with the stock to use a high mounted scope, especially with a rifle with a stock designed to be used with the iron sights. The military calls it your stock weld and it is important. Getting your eye correctly placed behind a high mounted scope will cost you time with a rifle that is known for it's fast almost instinctive handling.

I have been telling folks this for years, but it does no good. I also have little use for the quick release rings, because no matter what anyone says they don't really return to zero when you put the scope back on. So a combo like discribed here gives you a gun that will never really work real well, and lots of excuses why the gut shot deer got away. It seems that people have to try and get the one gun that does it all, and there is none.

bilmac · « **Reply #44 on:** August 30, 2008, 05:52:23 AM »

Kieth

Have you tried plain old Weaver rings? I once made a reciever sight that fit on a Weaver base. Put the scope in the pack to climb up the mountain, and screw it on when it's time to hunt. Before I did this however, I tested the return to zero thoroughly. I took it off and put it on maybe 10 or 20 times. I could never see that it wasn't zeroed. I'm talking a hunting rifle here 1.5 to 2 inch groups. Maybe if you are shooting a rifle that shoots .5" groups you could see a difference.

Keith L · « **Reply #45 on:** August 30, 2008, 07:33:28 AM »

I won't hunt unless I know where the bullet is going to go. Within an inch and a half is not good enough as far as I am concerned. I know that lots of hunters are ok with this level of consistency, and even some are happy if they can make the water splash on the creek when they are sighting in. I need to know with more precision to have the confidence to take the shot. If I change anything with my gun I shoot targets prior to hunting.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #46 on:** September 02, 2008, 12:53:50 PM »

My GG will shoot 2" groups at 100 yards with XS ghost rin sights on it, It is a hunting sight not a target sight, you can see as well in low light with it as you can with a scope. I am much slower getting on target with a scope so I mostly don't use one except for long range shooting/hunting.

I am not sure what type apatures you may have used but a field peep is alot diffrent from a target peep, I don't think I could even see thru my target peeps in feild conditions.

BTW if peeps aren't any good in the field why has the US milatary installed them on all field weapons since around 1903?

Keith L · « **Reply #47 on:** September 02, 2008, 01:20:34 PM »

If you are reacting to my post, please go back and re-read. I have no problem with peeps, assuming the shooter has good eyes. I have a problem with the scope mounts that claim they return to zero. I won't accept within 2 or 21/2 inches as good enough to return to zero. I agree with Reed from Reeds ammo as stated on another forum that I want my gun as accurate as I can get it so that if there is a wind that I can't read, or a change in the topography that I can't see that I am still in the kill zone. That means I choose a sighting method and stick with it. In the past that has been peeps on some guns. Now I am to old and blind to count on them so I use scopes for anything past about 50 yards.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #48 on:** September 02, 2008, 01:51:04 PM »

Scopes are fine. Peeps sights are also fine if you can see well and like 'em. I can see well and I have peeps on my XLR 45-70 and my Flintlock. My other rifles are scoped.....'cept for my 22LR. It has a firesight on the front and a Lyman open on the back. Oh...and my very first rifle...my Winchester Model 88 still has it's orginal open sights. I love that gun.....and it will kill anything I aim at and pull the trigger!

A lot of people are quite happy with "minute of deer" groups. And 2" at 100 yards is more than adequate for most here in Pa. where 90% of deer shot are under 100 yards. In fact, when I take my 44 mag and my doe tags, I intentionally position myself so the shot is no longer than 100 yards. Why sit in a field where a 300 yard shot may be necessary if your carrying a gun that will do at best 100?

So....to each his own.

But, since I do shoot at paper alot......I like to get each gun to make cloverleafs. It just seems to be more fun to do that.

Dave

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #49 on:** September 03, 2008, 09:57:16 AM »

Not reacting to your post Keith but it geared toward a couple others on this thread who seam to insist peeps aren't hunt sights. This is totally untrue, IMHO scopes are a crutch for people who can't shoot, ( Not people whose eyes are going bad from ageing or some ailment, Life happens.) I also don't trust QD scope mounts. but I do use a scope occasionally, I can also shoot clover leafs with my rifle at the ranges I hunt at, genrally 100yards or less. I can also hit a deer in the vitals at 300yards with peeps from a hunting positon.

Scopes are fine tools, some need them some don't, I use both. But I don't think you should say they are nesaserry to hunt with as some here have done nor should you bash someone elses use of diffrent equipment.

Old Grizz · « **Reply #50 on:** September 03, 2008, 11:32:03 AM »

Quote from: Badnews Bob on September 03, 2008, 09:57:16 AM

Not reacting to your post Keith but it geared toward a couple others on this thread who seam to insist peeps aren't hunt sights. This is totally untrue, IMHO scopes are a crutch for people who can't shoot, ( Not people whose eyes are going bad from ageing or some ailment, Life happens.) I also don't trust QD scope mounts. but I do use a scope occasionally, I can also shoot clover leafs with my rifle at the ranges I hunt at, genrally 100yards or less. I can also hit a deer in the vitals at 300yards with peeps from a hunting positon.

Scopes are fine tools, some need them some don't, I use both. But I don't think you should say they are nesaserry to hunt with as some here have done nor should you bash someone elses use of diffrent equipment.

I have to agree with your statement about peep sights. For 40 years I used peep sights, but now, in my senior years, I find it neccesary to use scopes because of my failing eye sight. Our forefathers certainly rarely used scopes and killed plenty of game. As far as the comment about the "QD" scope mounts, they will keep your scope aligned within 1" after re-installing the scope. I use a Leupold QD on my 1895G Marlin and have never had an accuracy problem after re-installing the scope. I have a true story that happened to me in Alaska in 1990 while hunting grizzly bear. Had it not been for a QD scope mount and iron sights, I probably wouldn't be here today.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #51 on:** September 03, 2008, 12:14:45 PM »

Quote from: Old Grizz on September 03, 2008, 11:32:03 AM

..... I have a true story that happened to me in Alaska in 1990 while hunting grizzly bear. Had it not been for a QD scope mount and iron sights, I probably wouldn't be here today.

Hey Grizz.....I'm up for a good read. If you have the fingers in "type mode" how 'bout sharin the story?

Dave

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #52 on:** September 03, 2008, 12:57:26 PM »

Hey Grizz I understand you about QD mounts and know people that use them. I don't knock them I just can't get the proof I need to use them myself. Dosn't mean I won't try them someday. I am 47 and life is already making the small print harder to see, I already wear glasses so I expect to be needing scopes in the not to distant future. I can only hope not I like my irons and peeps.

BTW I'd like to hear that bear story myself, Love a good true story about life.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #53 on:** September 04, 2008, 08:05:48 AM »

put a J-Point red dot sight on it. It weighs about the same as peeps and gives you a much more precise aim on target.

Old Grizz · « **Reply #54 on:** September 04, 2008, 11:35:45 AM »

Quote from: Badnews Bob on September 03, 2008, 12:57:26 PM

Hey Grizz I understand you about QD mounts and know people that use them. I don't knock them I just can't get the proof I need to use them myself. Dosn't mean I won't try them someday. I am 47 and life is already making the small print harder to see, I already wear glasses so I expect to be needing scopes in the not to distant future. I can only hope not I like my irons and peeps.

Hi Bob,
I was the same way a few years back till I tried it on my 1895G Marlin. Now I am a beleiver in QD mounts and a scout system. I'm 62 and my eye sight is failing, I guess because of my age and this system works well for me, but may not work for the next guy. Buckhorns and peep sights are what should be used on leverguns, but there come a time when a little extra is needed.

This is the scout system I was refering too.
Marlin 1895G-45-70
Leupold 2.5 scout scope with Leupold QR rings on an XS mount.
XS Ghost ring anf front sight
Wild West Guns custom trigger
WWG Bearproof ejector
WWG magazine follower
DRC large loop lever
Levergun Leather sling
Butt ammo carrier

This rifle is going with me to Alaska next year on another bear hunt.

To make a very long story very short, the bear was about 115 yds. away on the edge of alders. I took a broad side shot at him hitting him in the scappula, which dropped him right to the ground. While the guide and I were congradulating each other, he got up and ran into the alders. We waited about 2.0 hours and worked our way into the thicket. There was blood every where but no bear. About halfway through this tangled mess he ran from my left to my right, I fired again hitting him in the front shoulder. He ran like a bullet and acted like I never touched him. I removed my scope to use my iron sights because of the tangled mess and made about 10 more steps and this guy was headed full bore right at me. My final shot hit him in the right side of the scull dropping him in his tracks. The bear, 1,050 lbs. his hide 368 lbs. Oh buy the way, he was 18 yards when I took my final shot. I'm not afraid to say, "it scared the hell of of me", but not enough to go again in 2009.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #55 on:** September 04, 2008, 02:26:36 PM »

final shot at a 1000# charging bear at 18 yds!!!!!!!!!!!! Outstanding cool headed shooting my man. ^5

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #56 on:** September 04, 2008, 02:35:11 PM »

Good shootin Grizz glad your still with us.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #57 on:** September 04, 2008, 02:51:03 PM »

Grizz.....thanks for sharing the story. WOW! Nice shootin. Excuse me....I have too go change my shorts!

Dave

cobraa · « **Reply #58 on:** September 04, 2008, 09:50:35 PM »

Empty Quiver I own a Marlin 1895XLR 45-70 here is my setup + Reloading info and pictures of me rifle and our targets this combination works great

Marlin 1895XLR 45-70 Stainless Steel Lever action rifle 24" with Leupold QR #54227 silver Steel base & Leupold QR #49975 Medium Silver Steel Rings with a Burris 3-9x40mm Fullfield II Ballistic Plex Nickel Rifle Scope #200169

Remington 405gr JSP 45-70 Gov't
Remington 45-70 Brass
Remington 9 1/2 Large Rifle Primers
40 Grains Reloader 7
Rifle Barrel Length: 24"
3 SHot Group at 100Yards
2 SHot Group at 100Yards
The Rifle is sighted in at 100yds with the Remington 405GN JSP

Without touching the scope at all this group was shot out of my rifle just to see how these new Projectiles group and they went great..
WESTCASTINGS PREMIUM GRADE PROJECTILES
GOLD MATCH 500GN RNFP .459 Dia 45-70 GOVT
Remington Brass
Remington 9 1/2 Large Rifle Primers
33 Grains of Reloader 7
Rifle Barrel Length: 24"
3 SHot Group at 100Yards
i even added a little USA one Dime next to the group..
Felt recoil was no more then the Remington 405gr JSP bullets with 40grains of reloader 7

Those two loads are more then enough to kill anything you are going to shoot...

and i have no problem using me 3-9x40 scope i recon its a good fit... + its got the Leupold QR #54227 silver Steel base & Leupold QR #49975 Medium Silver Steel Rings so ya can quickly detach the scope and use the factory sights if ya want.. without any effort..

CLICK ON THE PICTURES TO SEE LARGER PICTURES

Davemuzz · « **Reply #59 on:** September 05, 2008, 10:01:09 AM »

My 1895 Marlin XLR in 45-70. The one that is pictured in my Avitar. Here is a pic of the target when I used a load of 50 grains of Varget and a Cast Performance 405 gr. flat nose lead bullet. The first two shots "fouled" barrel and the next 3 did the clover leaf. This was shot from a bench at 100 yards using the Williams peep sight. These Marlins are incredibly accurate.