Author Topic: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag  (Read 2555 times)

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Offline jadams951

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Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« on: March 23, 2008, 07:56:08 AM »
I haven't shot a 44 since I was about 11 or 12 years old and I remember then that I didn't like it at all.  I've been looking at getting a 4" S&W 620 as a back up handgun while in the woods.  Usually I carry a 6.8 SPC AR as my woods gun and a handgun too.  Usually it's my Glock 17 or 19 since that is what I carry on duty.  I want something with a bit more kaboom to it while in the woods.  As I said I want to get a 7 shot 357 magnum for that purpose.  I don't have any interest in using it for hunting just as a close up back up if needed.  I hunt in TX so the toughest creature I would come across is a big ol hog.  I like the idea of having a 44 magnum instead but remembering what I do about the recoil I'm hesitant.  The only revolver I shoot these days are a S&W 642 with +p ammo as an ankle gun.  My buddy was trying to tell me that 44 magnum in a full size revolver would have about the same recoil as my little snubby airweight with +p.  Is that true???

Offline Questor

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 08:25:23 AM »
I perceive them as having the same recoil because they are both just as loud. The only 44 magnum I have perceived the physical force of recoil in has been a T/C contender, which I feel in my wrist after shooting over about 50 rounds at one sitting.  There are some 357 loads I perceive as having more recoil than a 44 because they have a lot of muzzle flash.  I know that I'm mixing recoil and blast, but blast is a bigger factor for me than recoil. So it's something you should consider too.  Whatever you do with the 357, use bullets of 158 grains or a bit more in a field gun.  You'll get the penetration you need.
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Online Graybeard

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 10:06:18 AM »
I don't honestly believe it is possible to accurately compare recoil between two totally different guns like you're asking. The guns are just too different and the perceived recoil is too varied between individuals. You could run the recoil numbers in a ballistics program and get some feel for the real numbers but that still won't answer the question of felt or perceived recoil. What grips each has even plays a major role in the matter.

However I will say that your 642 even with plus P loads is not the equal of say a S&W 29/629 4" like say the Mountain Guns made for holster carry on the trail. You could likely get it down to that level by using lighter recoiling milder loads but a standard magnum load will have more felt recoil.

You also cannot compare how recoil felt to you as a child to how it will feel to you now as an adult you'll need to shoot again and see how you handle it.

Even in my light weight small frame guns like the S&W M60 3" full house magnum loads don't bother me as much these days as those same loads used to in a 6" M19 with the factory wood grips. I have a set of CTC Rubber grips on my little M60. Back when I had a Taurus Tracker Ti 4" .357 Magnum it seemed far lighter in recoil to me than the little M60 as well even tho it actually weights less.


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Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 11:13:56 AM »
Greybeard  Has it right, I own a Ruger GP-100 .357 and a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 . The .44 hits your hand somewhat harder but the .357 has alot more muzzle flash and snaps up faster, I don't find either one a bother to shoot but I prefer the .357. I think it handles better and it most definitely carries easier, I only carry the .44 when I am not carring a rifle.
Badnews Bob
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Offline Slufoot

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 03:57:47 PM »
Since you carry a Glock on duty, have you considered getting another Glock chambered in 10mm to carry while hunting.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Offline corbanzo

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 05:40:09 PM »
For me, shooting a full size .44mag with full house loads is more comfortable than shooting a .357mag snubby with full house loads.  If I was to make that snubby an airlight, forget about it, I would take the .44mag recoil anyday. 

That being said, the grip size is a huge part of it.  Then the weight of the gun would come next. 

If you aren't going to be doing a whole lot of hiking, and don't mind a big gun on your hip, a .44 mag in a full size platform with medium cast loads would do all you want, and some over time if necessary. 
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline Dand

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 07:02:49 PM »
Is there any chance you can find a range where you can borrow or rent some sample guns and try them out?  Have any friends or contacts who might let you try their guns? Nothing like shooting a few guns for yourself to make a decision.  Try a 357 with 38s and medium 357 loads, a 44 mag with 44 special, medium and full house loads. Try a few different styles - single action and double action to get a good idea what you like.

I shoot a Ruger SP101 in 357 and with full house 158 gr loads it snaps pretty hard.  I have a Walther P99 .40 that I shoot less often and the first couple shots are always is a surprise after shooting the revolvers.  I think its the feel of the slide coming back. And its just as loud (even with protection).  I also shoot several .41 mags,  each has its own feel.

My favorite of all is my old 4 inch Ruger security six in 357 with Hogue rubber grips for accuracy and fit to my hand. But I live in brown bear country so the one I carry and shoot the most is a 657 moutain gun with 250 -265 gr heavy loads.
 

Hope this is a help.
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liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA

Offline Mikey

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 12:10:30 AM »
jadams:  your buddy is fulla bananas and one is caught crosswise.  And you're not an 11 y/o kid anymore; a 44 you can handle now. 

There is a definite difference in recoil between the 38 snubbie and the 44 mag.  The magnum recoil is heavier and sharp, the snubbie is not as heavy or sharp and is much easier to control. 

If you keep this in mind you may find the recoil of the S&W 7shooter to be about like the 44 due to the lighter weight of the 357 but that makes for a nice, light packing revolver and the 357 is very controllable.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

Offline jadams951

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 04:46:52 AM »
Since you carry a Glock on duty, have you considered getting another Glock chambered in 10mm to carry while hunting.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

I considered it but I want something plain and simple and not having to worry about any magazines.

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 11:50:32 AM »
I considered it but I want something plain and simple and not having to worry about any magazines.

That sounds like a .357 to me, sure the .44 is more powerful I like mine but, the .357 is much easier to carry and a little easier on the wallet. You say you really rely on the rifle for puttin holes in critters so you don't need the big hammer. Something fun to shoot and easy to carry and care for just screams .357 to me S&W, Ruger, Dan Wesson all make fine firearms take your pick, I like rugers, they won't let you down. And if you decide to just knock some bark off an old stump .38s with some lead semiwad cutters are about as economical as they come. 

That seven shot Smith sure looks nice to I'd like to shoot one someday.
Badnews Bob
AE-2 USN retired

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 12:10:48 PM »
I own 2 Smith 629 44 mag's. A scoped 6.5" barrel and a 4" barrel. I also own a Smith 386sc I shoot mild and full loads thru the 44's and I shoot only full load 180 grain Hornady XTP's thru my Mt. Lite 357. The "perceived recoil" of the Mt. Lite 357 is nowhere near that of the 44 magnums. I can't give you any measurement in ft\lbs,...just the feedback of what my hands, wrist, and forearms tell me.

Dave

Offline Catfish

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2008, 09:55:06 AM »
I much prefer the .44 mag. for your purpose. As for recoil what you perceive varies alot from 1 gun to another. I have a 629 S&W with rubber grips that the perceived recoil is very lite. I also have a PD .329 S&W and the same load is more than most guys want, even with rubber grips. I like the single action Rugers, but they seem to have alot more recoil than my .629. With the .44 mag. you can also carry less than max. loads and still have alot more stopping power than you have with a .357 mag. with max. loads. Just my thought on the subject, but then I did fire 45 rounds of .500 S&W, hot loads, over a bench at 1 setting.

Offline jadams951

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2008, 05:59:01 PM »
I much prefer the .44 mag. for your purpose. As for recoil what you perceive varies alot from 1 gun to another. I have a 629 S&W with rubber grips that the perceived recoil is very lite. I also have a PD .329 S&W and the same load is more than most guys want, even with rubber grips. I like the single action Rugers, but they seem to have alot more recoil than my .629. With the .44 mag. you can also carry less than max. loads and still have alot more stopping power than you have with a .357 mag. with max. loads. Just my thought on the subject, but then I did fire 45 rounds of .500 S&W, hot loads, over a bench at 1 setting.

I fired one round from my buddy's S&W 500 and had enough of that.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2008, 07:24:16 AM »
Quote
i fired one round from my buddy's S&W 500 and had enough of that.
it is rather ridiculous, isnt it?   
 
 

Offline Catfish

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2008, 09:49:26 AM »
Well--- HE MEN,---- I happen to have a video clip of a little girl, maybe 110 lbs. soaking wet, Firing her second round through a .500. She did it the first day she ever fire a handgun. She started with a .44 mag. and like it so much she wanted to try the .500. That was with 440 gn. bullets at 1,650 fps. Don`t fell to bad he-men, her boy friend would shoot it ether.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 10:03:07 AM »
anyone remember the story of the young boy  (12 if i recall correctly) that was killed when he fired a 454 ruger and the barrel came back and smacked him in the head?    i do.   do what you want with your life,  dont be advocating dangerous stuff to others.  some things simply arent meant for kids.   while you might think it is cute, i think it is GROSSLY irresponsible.   now i am waiting for someone (i am sure someone will try) to tell me how experienced kids can handle them.    tell that to the parents of the dead kid; and  think how you would feel if you let your buddies' kid try your gun and they got hurt because or your ego.    i am open to alot,  but to suggest that 454's, 475's, 500's are kids guns is about as ignorant as it gets.

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 02:54:45 PM »
How did we go from 357\44 mag recoil to dead kids shooting 500 magnums? The topic of discussion was 357\44 mag recoil.

Maybe we should stick to that?

Dave

Offline Mikey

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2008, 12:22:33 AM »
Dave - good point, thanks. 

Now, that being settled, can you send me your 386 (the one in the picture) so I can try some of my 200 (two hunnert) grain loads through it???  I would like to take some nightime pictures of one of those loads touchin' off out of a light weight short barrelled revolver like yours, 'cause the last time I reviewed information on the 180 gn loads (I think when they first came out) I wasn't all that impressed with the results.  I felt they were kinda wimpy in comparison to the old Winchester load with a 200 gn slug over 12.8 gn of 296.   And I promise to clean it before I send it back.  Thanks.  Mikey.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2008, 02:51:21 AM »
my shooting  buddy has a load with 296 (i believe ) and 180's out of his 44 and even during the daylight they create a helluva flash, although the recoil is quite mild.  i couldnt imagine how big the flash would be during the evening or night.  lol. 

Offline onesonek

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2008, 03:11:23 AM »
There are a lot of good points/opinions posted here. Personally, if it was to be used as backup for hogs, I would prefer the 44.  I don't particularly like heavy recoiling guns, but sometimes they just seem more prudent. I learn to deal with it (recoil) during practice. But when it comes to actual use in the field, I'm concentrating more at the situation at hand. Perceived recoil is far less it seems when shooting at an animal. I can't say I remember or take notice of the recoil of any firearm in a hunting situation.
But I believe as already mentioned, get a set of good fitting grips, they make all the difference.

Dave

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2008, 04:11:10 AM »
Dave - good point, thanks. 

Now, that being settled, can you send me your 386 (the one in the picture) so I can try some of my 200 (two hunnert) grain loads through it???  I would like to take some nightime pictures of one of those loads touchin' off out of a light weight short barrelled revolver like yours, 'cause the last time I reviewed information on the 180 gn loads (I think when they first came out) I wasn't all that impressed with the results.  I felt they were kinda wimpy in comparison to the old Winchester load with a 200 gn slug over 12.8 gn of 296.   And I promise to clean it before I send it back.  Thanks.  Mikey.

Mikey...You'll be happy to know that I just put a set of smooth wooden grips on it for CCW purposes. The really nice Houge grips that come with it (and soak up all that recoil) have a tendency to grab my clothing....so I went with a nice smooth wood grip that allows my shirt or sweater to not grab on it. However, the trade off is my hand now takes all of the recoil. I just shot two chambers full the other day. That "test" was enough to tell me that  "adrenaline" will take over where Houge lefto off.

So......Sure  ::)....I've just mailed the gun out to you. The package is marked "Loaded gun inside" "To Mikey...AKA "Albert-Kida".  Men in black should be at your door any second.  ;D

Dave

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2008, 04:14:56 AM »

But I believe as already mentioned, get a set of good fitting grips, they make all the difference.

Dave

Dave,

I've just proven your point. The nice wooden grips are great for CCW purposes in that they don't let my clothing "bunch up" or grab on the rubber grips. The trade off is they are very impractical to practice with. However, it takes only a minute to change 'em back to the Houge grip (thank goodness for that!).

Dave

(PS...All great decisions are made by men named Dave. Did ya ever notice that?)

Offline onesonek

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2008, 09:10:09 AM »
(PS...All great decisions are made by men named Dave. Did ya ever notice that?)

LOL,,,but I've had my share of brainfarts too ;)

Dave

Offline kennisondan

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2008, 04:39:19 PM »
Uh ... dave's not here, Man...

I like them both... if I am seriously have a chance to shoot a hog, unless I am competent for a head shot or a raking shot from behind the gristle through the chest cavity and heading to the opposite side front quarter.. I would want the 44 mag or special... when I load the 44 up really lite it is a real kitten... If I was more about carrying it than shooting it, a super lite 44 would be the deal ... when a 357 would also suffice, is if it is not going to be shot much... and carrying is more peace of mind than shooting and percentage chance of hog busting.
I have had them both on more than one occasion; what did I do ? I use a short big bore 44 and am just about to get a 357 for the first time since the 80s.. the 44 will do all the 357 will.. and more... a light 44 load will do more than a heavy 357 load... if I wanted the gun lighter than a full size short barrelled 44 ruger can be... I would get the charter lightweight 44 special or build a 357 based project gun bored to 44 as it can go with full 44 mag or 44 special...
I am getting another 357 but... I doubt it will stay 357 .. unless I relegate it to a fun gun of light weight and lower recoil both and not for big jobs and hog shooting is a fairly big job... to me.. at least.
for concealed carry, the 357 would get a better shot at the travel squad position...but would have tough competition from the charter 44 spcl. --as long as it is revovler only choice.
dk

Offline DCRthe3rd

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2008, 04:46:46 PM »
I'm all about the 44's , youre just going to have to fight hogs? worried about the max recoil?
Get some 240 grain hard cast and don't load them to the hilt , I don't think that level of recoil is anything to worry about but we all have differnent levels of comfort , but I think unless something is wrong you should be able to handle that load well enough

Offline Mikey

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2008, 01:10:07 AM »
Dave - I like smooth wooded grips but don't worry, just as soon as your 386 arrives I'll put some Hogue grips on it.  One of my Sunday go to Meetin' guns is a 3.5" bbl M28 that wears very smooth black buffalo horn grips, which are good for about 2 cylinders worth and then it's time for the S&W Magnum grips - much easier to hold on to...........

BTW - men in black - they just left.  One asked if I wanted to borrow his set of Hogue grips to shoot the snot outta your gun but I thanked him and said I would put my own set on. 

Didja send it overnight mail????  Mikey.

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2008, 04:07:04 AM »
Mikey,,,, No..I sent it camel-back....or was that camel-jockey....or maybe it was with a guy who looked like he road a camel?? Darn....where are those medications....misplaced 'em again!!!!

Dave

Offline buck460XVR

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2008, 03:06:32 AM »
jadams951.....your situation sounds very similar to mine a few years back. Back in the late 70's I had  a .44 mag Ruger  that beat up my hand and wrist to the point that it was so unpleasant to shoot that I sold it. Years later I bought a 6'' ported 686 just for something to play with and found it so accurate and such a pleasure to shoot, that it has become my favorite range gun. I carried it for many years as a backup during gun deer season along with my M1917 '06. Because of its relatively small bulk and weight it carried well in a hip holster and besides being well suited for the occasional coup de gras, coyote and small game,  I also took several deer with it alone. I always considered it's range and effectiveness as comparable  to my compound bow and used it accordingly. Being from Wisconsin, the only threat I faced in the woods during deer season other than stray bullets is wolf and bear and had always figured they had to get by the '06 before they faced the so called(at least by many here) under powered .357. If this is your situation, the .357 should do you well. When I decided to go with a revolver as my primary carry, and leave the long gun at home, I realized I needed more range and more downrange power than the .357 could provide, thus the investment in the XVR. Still all the power in the world don't do you any good if you cant hit what you're aiming at as I demonstrated to myself this year during the late antlerless hunt. Because of the newness, unfamiliarity and only having the opportunity to shoot a coupla hundred rounds thru the .460, I missed a coupla deer that had I had the .357, woulda been in the freezer. The few days a year that I carry the long gun(when I'm in close proximity to others in my hunting party and don't want to expose them to the muzzle blast of the .460....like sitting on stand with my youngest son) I still strap on the 686 for a backup and feel comfortable with it.
"where'd you get the gun....son?"

Offline nilescoyote

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2008, 08:18:59 PM »
I ran the numbers through a ballistic program that will give recoil info for you. For the gun weight I went with 2 pounds for each to keep this as objective as possible. For 357 I used a 180 grain bullet loaded with lil-gun powder, which yielded a fps of 1279 for the min load and 1422fps for the max load.

results are as follows
min load:
recoil velocity 20.8fps
recoil energy  13.5 foot pounds
recoil impulse 1.3 pounds

max load:
recoil velocity 22.8fps
recoil energy  16.2 foot pounds
recoil impulse 1.4 pounds
 
For the 44 mag I used a 200 grain bullet using long-shot powder with min fps of 1440 and max of 1534fps

results are as follows for the min load:
recoil velocity 24.9fps
recoil energy  19.3 foot pounds
recoil impulse 1.6 pounds

for the max load:
recoil velocity 26.7fps
recoil energy  22.2 foot pounds
recoil impulse 1.7 pounds

So know you know what you all ready knew. Both have recoil, and the 44mag does not have that much more. Now something to compare it to a 38 spl 1 pound gun shooting a plus P load in a common defense weight bullet, I'll pick a 125 grain at a velocity of 1100fps

Offline nilescoyote

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Re: Difference in recoil between 357 mag and 44 mag
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2008, 08:22:14 PM »
I ran out of room but here is the results on the 38spl

recoil velocity 23.7fps
recoil energy 8.8 foot pounds
recoil impulse  0.7pounds

So you can see that impulse and energy is quite a bit less on the 38 compared to the other two.