Author Topic: Survival?  (Read 7932 times)

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Offline S.B.

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Survival?
« on: March 24, 2008, 06:47:52 AM »
Has anyone here ever considered keeping a .22 pistol for survival? Personally, I think a revolver would do for me. I like the idea of being able to shoot all different kinds of ammo. Shot, high velocity, and target.
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Offline Keith L

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 07:19:17 AM »
Depends on what you need to survive.  For taking small game etc. I would think my Single Six would get the job done just fine.  To survive a grizzly bear attack it would seem a touch light.  Were I to put together a kit for keeping the pot full in a survival situation a .22 revolver makes good sense to me.
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Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 07:44:03 AM »
Depends on what you need to survive.  For taking small game etc. I would think my Single Six would get the job done just fine.  To survive a grizzly bear attack it would seem a touch light.  Were I to put together a kit for keeping the pot full in a survival situation a .22 revolver makes good sense to me.

My intent, exactly. Never saw a griz in Illinois and don't think you've got any up there either?
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 09:24:23 AM »
A good 22 and a lot of ammo have always been a part of my bugout pack.

Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 09:45:35 AM »
Old Syko, which .22 and a lot of what ammo?
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 10:01:33 AM »
MKII 678 and around 1200 rnds. of RWS HiVel poured into a surplus waterproof bag.  A couple hundred sub sonics for those quieter moments.  Light, powerful and dependable.

Offline bscman

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 06:21:42 PM »
A 22lr is a GREAT tool for survival type situations in *most* of north america. It'll keep you fed, and *somewhat* protected against things that go bump in the night.

Personally, I'd rather have a rifle in a "bug out bag" or something of the sort. Either a good single shot or bolt action, that I know is durable and doesn't need a lot of maintenance. There are a few nice "survival" 22lr's on the market that break down and store in small packages.
My best tip--Take the buttplate off and drill a few holes. IF done right you could fit a complete box of ammo, or just throw some loose stuff in (or packaged in a film canister). This way you always have spares easily accessed.

FWIW, whenever I'm hunting the high country I have a 22lr with me (though it's usually a pistol due to weight constraints) for this very reason.

Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 06:49:50 PM »
bscman, so your not gong to answer my question but, change the subject of this post?
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Offline Tom C.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2008, 04:38:26 AM »
The Army has an interesting perspective on this issue.

http://www.sererescuesog.addr.com/USRSOG-Firearm.htm

"The weapon of choice for U.S. RSOG cadre ... is a heavy barreled, match grade, .22 caliber pistol.  Barrel lengths vary from 5-10 inches, the longer the barrel the better. These are not the types of pistols that you buy at a pawnshop or at a farm sale.  They are tricked out, highly accurate weapons systems.  With or without optical sights the pistols have rifle like accuracy.  RUGER and Smith & Wesson make the two most common models carried.  The preferred finish on the firearm is stainless or after-market weatherproofed camouflaged coating.  Many cadre have red dot scoped sites, which increase the abilities of the firearm."
Tom

Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2008, 05:04:18 AM »
I was looking for the link to this when I posted this. Thanks.
Steve
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2008, 05:22:23 AM »
Thanks for the link.  I must say, I agree with everything that is stated there with one exception.  In my opinion more time needs to be spent practicing without optics of any sort.  Optics have a way of being rendered inoperable at the worst of times.  If you choose to use optics one option is to invest in a quick detachable mount that allows for efficient removal of the offending item without the use of tools. 

Offline bscman

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2008, 05:33:45 AM »
Has anyone here ever considered keeping a .22 pistol for survival?

bscman, so your not gong to answer my question but, change the subject of this post?

I'm sorry, I thought I did answer your question. It was a very vague question, though...

As mentioned, the 22lr is a great survival tool and more than capable of keeping you fed or *somewhat* protecting you against things that go bump in the night.  I just happened to state that I'd rather have a 22lr RIFLE than a pistol if I had to choose one for survival--then a gave a small survival "tip."
I use a 22lr pistol as a sidearm during hunting season for small game...and you can bet it'd be there for "survival" if I needed it...I can shoot ~3" groups offhand at 25yds with a pistol, but I can easily do the same at 75yds with a rifle--so I'm much rather have a 22lr RIFLE if I had the choice.

If I offended you, or gave the impression I was trying to Hi-jack your thread I'm sorry...I just gave my honest answer for a very vague question.

Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2008, 07:48:08 AM »
No offence taken, I was just trying to get you to expland your answers?
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
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Offline bscman

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2008, 12:19:52 PM »
No offence taken, I was just trying to get you to expland your answers?

LoL...okay...
Anyone see the movie "Into the Wild" ???/
Christopher McCandles, the guy the movie was based on, trudged into the Alaska wilderness with only a 22lr as a means for hunting....everything up to a moose was taken with his trusty 22lr.

On another forum I frequent, a man (and his family) from northern British Columbia IIRC were out camping when some wolves showed up and got offensive towards the children. After they wolves were chased away the father got out his 22lr "just in case." A short while later the wolves returned and he dispatched two of 'em before they could attack again.

When my father was young, he used to hunt with a man who ran hounds on cougar. He only used a 22lr to dispatch tree'd cats. He would shoot at the base of the spine and *supposedly* never had a single cat get more than 10 feet from the tree it was shot in.

I'd trust my life with a 22lr without a doubt...but as mentioned, I'd much prefer a rifle over a pistol. The extra velocity, lower noise level, and increased accuracy would be extremely beneficial. I'd also insist on iron sights, as scopes can fog or be broken, and red-dots can go dead.

Easy to handle, easy to maintain, and extremely easy to carry large amounts of ammunition. What's not to like?
With the ever expanding assorment of ammunition available, there are cartridges perfectly suited for almost any scenario.

Personally, I'd like to have at least 2 trays of CCI's CB Longs for dispatching rabbit, squirrel, etc for food. They are extremely quiet from a rifle, but are accurate/powerful enough to take any of the above at 25yds or so. IF you're trying not to spook game, these are the ticket!
Futhermore, I'd want a brick of generic HP's such as the Federal 550rnd bulk packs. The extra noise can be heard if you're trying to get attention, they're easy to carry, and more than sufficient for small game.
Lastly, I'd want at least 100rnds of CCI's Segmented Hollow Points or Velocitors...extra energy and "killing power" for some of the larger critters you may encounter rather it be for nutrition or defense. Lets face it, in a survival situation you just might need to try and take down a deer or similar for food if nothing else is out there. For those not familiar with the latter--the Velocitor is the fastest 40gr bullet available. The Segmented Hollow Point is designed to break apart into multiple pieces for separate wound channels--IIRC, it's also HYPER velocity.

If you're stuck with a pistol as your survival task, I think you're at a disadvantage.
How many people here can shoot 4" or smaller 5-shot groups at 25 yds, with a pistol, offhand? If not, you're dinner just hopped away.
Now, how many of you can easily do that with a rifle? It's quite a bit easier!

The Henry Survival Rifle, or Marlin Papoose are two great options that are easily broken down to fit in a pack...they're also very lightweight and reasonably accurate. Unfortunately, they're both semi-automatic which could prove troublesome if you spend much time in the mud, rain, sand, etc.
 

Personally, I'd probably opt for a stainless/synthetic bolt action or single shot rifle.
A bolt action can afford to get a little more dirty before failing...it's also got fewer parts to LOSe when you do clean it. A single shot would be nice, but would make follow up shots on larger game more difficult. Ya can't afford to let one get away!

Is that expanded enough? LOL

Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 03:08:45 PM »
I recently shot some CCI CBs through 4 of my k framed S&Ws they shot terrible from  Ransom Rested guns?
Best tested that day was CCI Stingers in all the pistols tested.
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2008, 03:38:23 PM »
In a "survival" situation as this thread began, a good 22 pistol can serve a very critical part under the right circumstances but given a choice or better yet, an opportunity to prepare I'm not going to waste valuable space with a 22 rifle.  Reason being, I'm going to be equipped with a service rifle anyway.  In my case an AR will be my long gun.  If I'm going to pack 2 long guns,  which if you're on foot is a serious detriment, the second will be a 30 cal bolt gun with both scope and irons.

Rather than bother with CBs and the like a good suppressor and sub sonics are ideal.  Now you have a 22 survival gun.  In a pinch, a makeshift suppressor can be fabricated from every day items.  Let's face it, in a survival situation, legalities and proper paper work won't mean much compared to the options.

Offline Tom C.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 03:59:37 AM »
I began flight school in 1970. The war was still on. We went to the range for a fam firing, got to shoot the M6 .22 Hornet/.410 shotgun and a few others. A Navy Commander recommended to me that I get a High Standard .22 pistol with a muzzle brake. Take the brake and cut it off and make a homemade silencer. Then if I went down, if there was one person standing between me and the rescue helo, take him out without waking up the whole neighborhood. If you don’t end up using it, dump it on the way home to avoid trouble. Not bad advice for the day.

Bringing it up to date, I would probably get a TacSol upper for a Ruger MK III and a threaded silencer from any of a number of vendors. Silence is golden is some scenarios. In a lost-in-the-woods scenario, a little noise might be a good thing.
Tom

Offline Keith L

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2008, 05:07:01 AM »
Using a .22 for major game or other large animals will yield disappointing results more often than not.  Shot placement is critical, and even then it may take a long time for the critter to die.  If adrenalin is involved on either end of the gun a rapid positive end of the confrontation is unlikely. 

If its rabbits for the pot I will take my Single Six.  If it is for protection I will still prefer my .45.  JMHO
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Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2008, 05:28:01 AM »
Can't argu with your statement about shot placement but, I personally know of several hunters that have taken deer with a .22LR handgun. Maybe not the quickest kill but, woiuld taste just as good. Hell I've known hunters to shoot a deer with a 12 ga. slug and not have a clean kill? What a mess.
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Offline T.R.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2008, 05:56:31 AM »


Hunting for survival is a waste of time and calories.  Far better to make multiple snares (sets) and gather firewood instead of wandering around looking for game.  A good knife and lighter will keep you alive.   

Stamp SOS in the snow or arrange fallen limbs or rocks to make this message visible from the air.

Keep three fires burning.  Space them 12ft apart.  Get 'em smoking if a plane is heard.

TR

Offline Old Syko

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2008, 06:00:48 AM »
Can't argu with your statement about shot placement but, I personally know of several hunters that have taken deer with a .22LR handgun. Maybe not the quickest kill but, woiuld taste just as good. Hell I've known hunters to shoot a deer with a 12 ga. slug and not have a clean kill? What a mess.

Sorry!  Trying real hard not to take this thread OT but.....  Around here not clean shots seem to happen more and more often.  Too many think they can fire a couple practice rounds before the season each year and they are good to go.  To effectively use a 22RF handgun in a survival situation is going to take serious practice.  Without that practice it could turn into a case of suicide.  If you're going to count on a 22RF pistol for either food or defense you'd better get out and make sure you are capable before you even consider whether or not the round and gun are.  Otherwise let extra food or other protection items take the place of the gun and ammo.

 


Hunting for survival is a waste of time and calories.  Far better to make multiple snares (sets) and gather firewood instead of wandering around looking for game.  A good knife and lighter will keep you alive.  

Stamp SOS in the snow or arrange fallen limbs or rocks to make this message visible from the air.

Keep three fires burning.  Space them 12ft apart.  Get 'em smoking if a plane is heard.

TR

That's all well and good if you are wanting to be found.

Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2008, 06:18:01 AM »
T.R., not disagreeing on the knife and lighter they are both necessary but, which do you eat, the knife or lighter? I thought I started a thread about .22 pistols in survival situations for subsistence?
Old Syko, with .22 LR ammo being so cheap, wouldn't it be more likely that the person would do plenty of practice? I'll take a well placed shot from a .22 LR before a miss with a .44 magnum or other larger pistols, any time. Bigger isn't always better. Have you ever tried to skin or eat a rabbit shot with a large caliber handgun? And I grant you, I wouldn't want to face a large predator with a .22 LR handgun either.
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Offline Keith L

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2008, 07:08:14 AM »
Guns in any caliber require much practice to use as effective tools.  I get in trouble with the concealed carry advocates when I say that having a gun is more dangerous for all if the person carrying is not able to effectively use it.  They call me an elitist.  In my opinion the same thing applies to survival.  The gun is just a tool, the success of the mission, whatever it is, requires a competent tool user who has planned and practiced.  Without that the gun is just a fashion accessory.  And if you can't use it, it is just dead weight.
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2008, 08:17:41 AM »
S.B. you and I couldn't argue about this if we wanted to since we seem to be in total agreement other than maybe the difference between pistol and revolver and that for the most part is simply personal preference unless, the use of a suppressor comes into play. :D  I've found the older I get and the more expensive ammo gets, the the more practice time I devote to 22.  Problem is, too many prefer the fire and brimstone of a big boomer thinking it will overcome their own inabilities which we all know usually results in the exact opposite outcome.  I've seen times that had I not been efficient with a 22, as that was the cheapest thing to shoot, neither myself or my family would have eaten as well as we should and I knew even then without practice that ability would diminish.

Keith L I'm right behind ya pal!  Do I believe everyone should have the right to own and carry?  You bet your back side I do!  Do I think everyone should carry?  OH MY NO!!!  As far as fashion statements go, one look at me any time or any where would quickly explain my feelings on that subject. :D  Yes!  A gunbelt is actually a tool belt.

Offline DCRthe3rd

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2008, 12:13:14 PM »
For survival , I assume you mean "lost in the woods"
sure why not , not all situations are the same , case in point , one fella said traps and snares , well thats fine if you plan on staying put , not so good if you are walking out , which if your able to walk out , there ain't many places in the lower 48 you can't get out from before a very long time provided you can walk in a straight line ,you might not come out where you want , but out is out in this case, hence a good use of a compass or other navigation skills.
So if I can move , I would be on my way out and not setting up a ranch in the boonies someplace and it might be nice to snack on a tree rat on my way out if I get the notion.

And perhaps overlooked would be the mental feature of having a pistol , much like a fire , even if you can get by without it , it may help the mind ease a bit if your lost in the boonies , and keeping ones wits keeps you a bit safer

Offline Omaha-BeenGlockin

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2008, 09:10:58 PM »
For the BOB--a Glock 19.

Lighter than either a MkII or Buckmark----carries more shots of more effective ammo---also more reliable.

FMJ for small game--JHP for defense.

A .22 would be an ok secondary weapon for camp---but no way would I seek one out as a primary weapon.

Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2008, 03:53:30 AM »
Omaha-BeenGlockin, are you trying to say a glock with 50 rounds of 9mm ammo is lighter than an aluminum framed Buckmark with 50 rounds of .22LR ammo? You've got to be kidding! Make up a ruck with all your survival gear and try carrying it for an extended period of time on your back, with your thinking, I think you'll soon loose some of your gear. Besides, read my original post?
I know this is an open forum and allows for every ones thoughts but, personally, I think you've got a gun store commando mentality or possibly I'm 60 now and know the reality of what things really weigh?
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Offline Omaha-BeenGlockin

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2008, 05:19:03 AM »
50 rounds of inferior ammo is not savings of anything---but a liability. I've had too many dud's in .22 to consider it reliable.

A G19 and 3 loaded magazines gives you 46 rounds--15+15+15+1 in the chamber----all conveniently packaged and readily available.

An empty G19 is 21oz---most configurations of the MkII or Buckmark are pushing 35oz. The G19 is also more easily carried due to its smaller size. Not too mention its more durable and rust resistant than any of those.

Offline S.B.

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2008, 05:24:53 AM »
I take it you've MOS wasn't 0311?
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Offline Omaha-BeenGlockin

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Re: Survival?
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2008, 06:23:27 AM »
Sorry---I'm not up on your "code".