Survival?

[Pinkerton]

Where I live, I'd wager up until 1945 more deer were killed with a 22 rifle than all other guns put together. Talk to any old fart around the Black Hills of South Dakota and they'll tell you about it. If you mention it's not alot for deer, they'll tell you "shoot em in the head, works every time"

[Keith L]

There used to be plenty of people around here that poached deer using a ,22 as well.  They would shoot them and let them lay until night then go get them, if they could find them that is.  A walk in the woods normally would find the bodies of a few deer kills that weren't recovered.  The foxes and the yotes liked it I guess.

[torpedoman]

for an if society dissolves survival situation a bolt action or single shot 22 rifle is the ticket you don't want the noise a revolver will make to alert others that you are there. good for small game without too much meat destruction and will take most larger game and the gent who mentioned traps and snares is correct efficient and quiet

[bluntweapon]

 a plastic soda bottle 20 oz or a old plastic oil can will silence a .22  and most standard velocity target ammo is subsonic so keeping quit would be easy enough and ammo easy to find. Ive fired a lot of .22's and i have had very few duds from good ammo. some cheap wallmart stuff can be bad but you find out after firing a few rounds so you don't have to depend on it. I have also had both of the glocks I've shot jam so nothing is perfect.

[S.B.]

Won't work, I've tried it! Can't seal the muzzle?

[torpedoman]

ah gee you mean that csi miami would bum dope us?

[S.B.]

Every time!

[toysoldier]

The plastic bottle silencer(muffler) works, just use a smaller-mouth bottle or wrap tape around the muzzle to build it up. It makes about as much noise as hitting something with that bottle, empty. Of course, you can't silence a revolver. The barrel-cylinder gap makes lots of noise. I get a real laugh when I see that on screen or a book cover.

[bluntweapon]

 This is one of the few revolvers ive seen that will work well silenced http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg213-e.htm

[snappy]

I would guess from reading every-ones post we are different types of survival, hunting being lost, or urban survival. In my younger days while stationed in Alaska, we flew in to do some dall sheep hunting, Well it was a great hunt but we were weathered in for a week extra, (airplane couldn,t land on the lake to pick us up) . We all had our rifles 300mag, 30-06 7mill mag, We couldn't travel too far in case the weather changed. They all laughted when I brought my S-W model 17. We used that to harvest ducks and rabbitts to live on.
My vote would be 22 cal in this application. In a urban application I would consider something different, or possibilably my encore with 22 barrel and 44 or 45.

[Tom C.]

I suspect if I were hunting in Alaska, I would, in addition to my hunting rifle, have two handguns: an always, all the time revolver suitable for bear defense, and a .22. The .22 could be a nice revolver, like a S&W 617 or a Ruger MK II or MK III. Stainless to help protect it from the weather.

[toysoldier]

Returning to the original post, I would not bother taking shot shells for a rifled .22. They are only effective on very small critters at point-blank range. A smoothbore long-barrelled .22 is adequate for shooting starlings at 20', making it a specialized "garden gun". I don't feel that .22 shot shells serve any purpose in a survival situation.

[torpedoman]

a plastic soda bottle 20 oz or a old plastic oil can will silence a .22  and most standard velocity target ammo is subsonic so keeping quit would be easy enough and ammo easy to find. Ive fired a lot of .22's and i have had very few duds from good ammo. some cheap wallmart stuff can be bad but you find out after firing a few rounds so you don't have to depend on it. I have also had both of the glocks I've shot jam so nothing is perfect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 You have been watching way too much T.V.

[toysoldier]

I've never seen the plastic bottle silencer portrayed on TV, but I HAVE tried it in my basement. My wife never noticed a thing! It doesn't silence the report, but greatly reduces the decibel rating and changes the sound to something like whacking a tree with an empty plastic bottle. You might say it disguises the sound, and very effectively.

[Keith L]

The problem I see with a soda bottle is how are you going to aim with all that plastic in the way?  With that small a projectile at that slow a speed shot placement becomes even more critical than ever.

[toysoldier]

There is a difference between it being 'effective' and being 'practical'. This is a point-blank sort of application. A point that probably isn't made in the TV stories is that it would disguise the distance from which a person was shot, by trapping the muzzle blast.

[Tom C.]

If we are talking about a rifle here, a practical alternative is to use quite subsonic ammo in a long barreled rifle. RWS makes subsonic HP ammo that is optimized for quiet report. In a long barreled rifle, like my CZ 452, it is as quite as a silencer. I have shot it in my basement without hearing protection and the bullet impact in the bullet trap was much louder than the muzzle blast.

[S.B.]

I've never seen the plastic bottle silencer portrayed on TV, but I HAVE tried it in my basement. My wife never noticed a thing! It doesn't silence the report, but greatly reduces the decibel rating and changes the sound to something like whacking a tree with an empty plastic bottle. You might say it disguises the sound, and very effectively.

What equipment did you use to measure the decibels?

[woodchukhntr]

I've got a Savage 24C Camper .22/20 ga.  This is a good gun for survival situations since it is light, breaks down to an small package, and with the 20 ga. barrel, it packs a punch.  Ammo is readily available, a couple of hundred .22's, some shotshells and a few slugs, and you are set for almost anything except a firefight.

[bluntweapon]

a plastic soda bottle 20 oz or a old plastic oil can will silence a .22  and most standard velocity target ammo is subsonic so keeping quit would be easy enough and ammo easy to find. Ive fired a lot of .22's and i have had very few duds from good ammo. some cheap wallmart stuff can be bad but you find out after firing a few rounds so you don't have to depend on it. I have also had both of the glocks I've shot jam so nothing is perfect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 You have been watching way too much T.V.

    The bottle trick is much much quieter than a normal .22. With a scope you look over the top of the bottle. with iron sights you use a plastic 1 quart oil can and tape the sides to deaden the sound of the plastic. Tape is also used where the can meets the barrel. If you have someone show you how to turn on a tv you may be able to find programs on the history channel talking about suppressors.

[S.B.]

Wow, I welcome all opinions but, did any of you read the original post to this thread???

[Tom C.]

Has anyone here ever considered keeping a .22 pistol for survival? Personally, I think a revolver would do for me. I like the idea of being able to shoot all different kinds of ammo. Shot, high velocity, and target.

A revolver certainly has the advantage of being able to handle different types of rounds that won't usually cycle through an auto. One possible trade-off is the (generally) superior accuracy of a good auto with ammo it likes. This may not matter because we are talking about good autos shooting into about 1" at 50 yds in a machine rest vs. good revolvers shooting into 1.5". In this case versatility may trump accuracy.

[S.B.]

I've benched many handguns in a Ransom rest and have never seen too many shoot 1"@50 yards, revolver or semi auto? Not even .22LRs. This to includes Clarks, Giles and other top smiths who have built target guns, over the years. The best of them averaging 1&1/2" or larger?
Your either dreaming or reading too many gun magazines?

[COR]

Has anyone here ever considered keeping a .22 pistol for survival? Personally, I think a revolver would do for me. I like the idea of being able to shoot all different kinds of ammo. Shot, high velocity, and target.

I always carry a 5.5" Ruger MKII in my pack or buttpack (with a 40round ammo wallet and extra mag) along with a small bug out kit, nothng fancy just some tools and meds to get me by for a few days or longer if needed.  Yes it is heavier than some choices but I'll sacrifice a pound or two for accuracy.  It is easily a more accurate weapon than any rimfire revolver I own.  It will shoot minute of stew game out to 75yds with a little practice.  I carry federal hollow points, yes the cheap ones from Wal mart.  You said you'd like a revolver for ammo choice...I say why would you need 3 different types of ammo?   Lets see...shot, for fending off overly aggressive chipmunks.  High velocity for those "quicker" kills. Target, for shooting the eye out of the gnats cause you didn't have room for bug juice due to the variety of ammo. As an 0311 I am sure you learned the KISS principle.  Your original question was a good one you just need to learn how to respond to people with some class instead of questioning their testing equipment, or commenting that "I guess you weren't an 0311" when their opinion differes from yours.  BTW I was an 0311, 0321, and 8541...since that matters. 

[Tom C.]

I've benched many handguns in a Ransom rest and have never seen too many shoot 1"@50 yards, revolver or semi auto? Not even .22LRs. This to includes Clarks, Giles and other top smiths who have built target guns, over the years. The best of them averaging 1&1/2" or larger?
Your either dreaming or reading too many gun magazines?

All I can do is reference Gil Hebard's article in the 1961 Gun Digest.

[SHOOTALL]

the weak point of the 22rf is the ammo and keeping it working . The heel type bullet lacks in the sealing of moisture and other evils out .
if a 22 is your choice then seal your ammo !

[S.B.]

Has anyone here ever considered keeping a .22 pistol for survival? Personally, I think a revolver would do for me. I like the idea of being able to shoot all different kinds of ammo. Shot, high velocity, and target.

I always carry a 5.5" Ruger MKII in my pack or buttpack (with a 40round ammo wallet and extra mag) along with a small bug out kit, nothng fancy just some tools and meds to get me by for a few days or longer if needed.  Yes it is heavier than some choices but I'll sacrifice a pound or two for accuracy.  It is easily a more accurate weapon than any rimfire revolver I own.  It will shoot minute of stew game out to 75yds with a little practice.  I carry federal hollow points, yes the cheap ones from Wal mart.  You said you'd like a revolver for ammo choice...I say why would you need 3 different types of ammo?   Lets see...shot, for fending off overly aggressive chipmunks.  High velocity for those "quicker" kills. Target, for shooting the eye out of the gnats cause you didn't have room for bug juice due to the variety of ammo. As an 0311 I am sure you learned the KISS principle.  Your original question was a good one you just need to learn how to respond to people with some class instead of questioning their testing equipment, or commenting that "I guess you weren't an 0311" when their opinion differes from yours.  BTW I was an 0311, 0321, and 8541...since that matters. 

You evidently have never shot your Ruger through a Ransom Rest to get those groups. They won't do 1"@75 yards! You just read too much about their accuracy.

[S.B.]

All I can do is reference Gil Hebard's article in the 1961 Gun Digest.
[/quote]

I have read Gil's articles but never read where he got this kind of accuracy?

[COR]

At this point I'll just sit back and read some more magazines articles S.B.  I am clearly out of my league here....I'll leave the real important stuff in your capable hands. Thanks for the valuable input devil dog.  I have truly been educated.  BTW I agree with you now.  A revolver is best (especially loaded with .22lr shot)  Good day and good luck in your quest.

[Tom C.]

All I can do is reference Gil Hebard's article in the 1961 Gun Digest.

I have read Gil's articles but never read where he got this kind of accuracy?
[/quote]

He wrote an article that appeared in the ’61 Gun Digest on rimfire target guns. High Standard, S&W, Hammerli, Ruger, custom Rugers by Clark and Shockey, etc. They were tested with the best Remington match available in a couple of machine rests. The best, the High Standards, were just slightly less than 1” at 50 yds. Most were a little bigger. The box stock Ruger was around 2”. The custom Rugers with Douglas barrels were 1.25” or so as I recall.