260, 6.5 swede, 257, or 7x57?

[beemanbeme]

I have never, ever NOT bought a rifle because I thought "it might go away"?? (I must have skipped that day in "Intro to Logic 101")  Since I reload, when I buy a rifle, I buy a couple of hundred cases and then, even if I have bought the very last rifle to ever be sold in that cartridge, I'm still set for life.  
It's merely the 7-08 -7x57 argument re-visited. Except in the case of the Swede, the case does not conform to the dims of a 30-06 case head.  It is bigger. But your domestic brass and ammo is made using 30-06 blanks. So the Swede is not properly supported in the head and web.  If you buy European brass, you will find it doesn't fit in a 30-06 shell holder.
Needless to say, buy what pleases you.  The .260 does lend itself to a light nimble rifle that might be appreciated by your wife but why not do what I usually suggest:  Take her to a big box sporting store and have them lay the various choices out on the counter and have Her handle each one, see how is comes up, how it balances, how it feels.  And let her make the choice.  It is, after all, gonna be her rifle.  

[deltecs]

The 7mm is a nice caliber, but would be comparable to 270 in recoil, and difficult to find a rifle that isn't of millitary origin unless you go semi-custom. I have a nice FN mauser in this caliber. The same goes for the 6.5 Swede, not that many guns out there chambered for this.

The 25-06 and 260 are probably the best 2 options spending on the style of rifle your wife will like. The 25-06 is great, I have a Ruger 77. It does not lend itself to a short light gun, as it perfroms best with a 24" tube and it is a longer action.

The 260 in a light remington can be had in 18.5 or 20" tubes, with a shorter action that may be a better fit and give up nothing in performance.

I agree on the 243 being marginal for deer. I had a 6mm REM. You can kill deer with it, and I know people who have, but it is marginal in terms of shot placement and penetration. For the average hunter who may only have 1 or 2 opportunities a season to take a shot, it is not the best choice.

I don't know about much, but I do know the 7x57 Mauser has been chambered in many different sporting rifles commercially.  Remington and Ruger both made 7x57 in factory chambers.  Ruger still does with its No 1 International and what a fine piece this is.  The 6.5 Swede was also chambered commercially in several factory rifles, among them Sako and Huskavarna.  Both are excellent rifles in the models chambered for these rounds.  CZ USA has chambered rounds for both the 7x57 and Swede.  As for the .003" difference in the Swede, as compared to 06 case head dimensions, the difference is not one of weakness or noticeable to any effective degree.  Not a problem for any re loader with either US or European brass. 

[efremtags]

I'M not saying the 7x57 isn't available in commercial rifles, just that it is not very popular or common in the US. I have come accross very few in my lifetime.

My co-worker has a 6.55 Swede in a Rem700 and Huscvarna, but he's swedish so he scoured the earth for these guns because he likes all things swedish, again not on the average gunshop shelves.

I'm not nocking either caliber, just think the 260 offers more for the application.

[Don Fischer]

I have a mod 70 featherweight in 6.5x55 and love it. Truth is tho that, for handloaders anyway, I think the 260 is a better choice. Even if no more 260 cases are made, there are still 243, 7mm-08 and 308 cases everywhere. The only bad thing about the 260 is that it doesn't roll off the tounge quite as well as 6.5x55! Big deal!

[cowboy77845]

You might investigate muzzle brakes and recoil reducers.  I have had cervical fusion and been told that recoil will create future problems.  I  am installing a brake and a reducer on my 280. In addition stock configuration has a lot to do with felt recoil.  I have a B&C stock on my 7-08 and there is little perceived felt recoil.  I notice that the butt appears to be oversize.  Spreads out recoil I suspect.

[Brithunter]

The 7mm is a nice caliber, but would be comparable to 270 in recoil, and difficult to find a rifle that isn't of millitary origin unless you go semi-custom. I have a nice FN mauser in this caliber. The same goes for the 6.5 Swede, not that many guns out there chambered for this.

The 25-06 and 260 are probably the best 2 options spending on the style of rifle your wife will like. The 25-06 is great, I have a Ruger 77. It does not lend itself to a short light gun, as it perfroms best with a 24" tube and it is a longer action.

The 260 in a light remington can be had in 18.5 or 20" tubes, with a shorter action that may be a better fit and give up nothing in performance.

I agree on the 243 being marginal for deer. I had a 6mm REM. You can kill deer with it, and I know people who have, but it is marginal in terms of shot placement and penetration. For the average hunter who may only have 1 or 2 opportunities a season to take a shot, it is not the best choice.

Errrrrr?

      I suppose Tikka, Sako, RWS (Titan) Saur, Blaser,CZ and Steyr don't make rifles chambered in either 6.5x55 nor 7x57. Both Ruger and Remington both have chambered these cartridges in their rifles as did USRC. My own 7x57 modern rifle is a BSA CF2 and one of the 6.5x55's is a Mauser 96 Slide Bolt.

      Also I have not noticed the 7x57 being heavy in recoil even when shooting RWS 173 grain H-Mantle factory loads which unlike commercial US made ammo is not weak loaded. Despite a liking for the .270 Win if I had to choose just one cartridge to keep from the pair it would be the 7mm Mauser without a doubt and that is despite the fact that I have four rifles chambered for the 270 and only  two in 7x57 (now).

[efremtags]

YES, EVERYONE MAKES 7X57 IN EVERY SHAPE AND SIZE. Go to Gander mountain or Cabelas which have huge gun collections and tell me how many 7x57 you find on the shelf. Go to a local gun show and tell me how many you find that aren't either an old mauser or sporterized version of one vs name brands mentioned.

[kevthebassman]

YES, EVERYONE MAKES 7X57 IN EVERY SHAPE AND SIZE. Go to Gander mountain or Cabelas which have huge gun collections and tell me how many 7x57 you find on the shelf. Go to a local gun show and tell me how many you find that aren't either an old mauser or sporterized version of one vs name brands mentioned.

The big box stores don't carry anything even remotely scarce.  Go try and find a .22 Hornet, .17 Rem, .25-06, .280, etc. at Cabela's.  You can't.  That doesn't mean that they aren't excellent calibers chambered in a healthy numbers of rifles.

You may find one at a gun show.  The last one I went to had a huge collection of CZ's.  I didn't look through all of them, but CZ carries lots of European and otherwise obscure calibers.  Most likely though you'll be ordering out.

[basdjs]

All 4 cartridges are very similar in performance.  Both my son and I went from the .243's to the .260 Rem a few years ago.  I shoot an Encore and he shoots a Savage.  We both shoot 120gr. ballistic tips.  It's also available in 140 gr. factory loads or several bullet weights in between if you reload.  Simply put, it's the most accurate and effective whitetail cartridge I've used in 45 years of hunting.  Recoil is barely above the .243 if your gun fits you well.  

Others suggested looking at several rifles.  I'd find the rifle that feels most comfortable for your wife in any of the above calibers and get it.  If the gun fits her well and she has confidence in it, she'll shoot it well, and that's more important in my mind than the choice of calibers.  One final note...no matter what caliber you choose,  I'd put a Simms recoil pad on it to really reduce the recoil. I have them on all my rifles.

[Brithunter]

Excellent post!!

    Finding the rifle which fits and feels best to the shooter is FAR more important than cartridge especially when choosing between such as those mentioned in this thread. As for rifle selection and chamberings on offer ..............................................


     Well it's never more obvious the differences between the US and here in the UK than when talking about this. I'll bet most shops in the US carry Remingtons on the racks but here in all the shops I know of and use I can only think of one which does so. Findings CZ's, Steyr's, Sako, Tilkka, RWS and Blaser is much more common. Funny thing is that these shops often carry the Rugger 10/22 but rarely carry the model 77.

YES, EVERYONE MAKES 7X57 IN EVERY SHAPE AND SIZE. Go to Gander mountain or Cabelas which have huge gun collections and tell me how many 7x57 you find on the shelf. Go to a local gun show and tell me how many you find that aren't either an old mauser or sporterized version of one vs name brands mentioned.

   Another difference for some reason we don't often find sporterised Mauser's like you do, I did know of one on offer but we do see the original Mauser sporters and high end stuff like Rigby's which yes were built on original Mauser actions until later years when other makes had to be used. Although i didn't mention it I do have n original 7x57 sporter which was made by DWM around 1897 for the Boers of South Africa.

[jasonprox700]

I'm about 100% sure you can go to any big store and find .25-06 & .280.  These are pretty mainstream cartridges.  I know this because I have a .280 and my brother has the .25-06, and neither one of us has ever had a problem finding ammo.  Maybe a problem 15 years ago when I first got the .280, but not now.

[onesonek]

YES, EVERYONE MAKES 7X57 IN EVERY SHAPE AND SIZE. Go to Gander mountain or Cabelas which have huge gun collections and tell me how many 7x57 you find on the shelf. Go to a local gun show and tell me how many you find that aren't either an old mauser or sporterized version of one vs name brands mentioned.

With the exception of maybe clothing and camping gear, I don't gunshop at the corporate level anyhow. Not that I got anything against the big store's. I just try to give my local business as much patronage as possible.
If my local gunshop don't have what I want on hand, he'll order in upon request. And if the chain store is your only shopping option, and they don't have it, I'm sure they can order it in also. There is nothing I need or want, that waiting a few days is going to matter in the decission, of what those wants or needs are.
And for the gun shows,,,,well they are fun to go to, one might find something interesting, but generally I feel they are more of a waste of my time.

Dave

[kevthebassman]

I'm about 100% sure you can go to any big store and find .25-06 & .280.  These are pretty mainstream cartridges.  I know this because I have a .280 and my brother has the .25-06, and neither one of us has ever had a problem finding ammo.  Maybe a problem 15 years ago when I first got the .280, but not now.

You'll have no problem finding the ammo, but I doubt that they will have more than one or two rifles in either caliber, if at all.

[Mikey]

Nice article in the latest Rifleshooter magazine about 'A Sporting Mauser' in 7x57, a nice Husquavarna.  The article also speaks to load development in the Mausers. 

The same mag carries an article by Craig Boddington in which he names his favorite calibers.  In the 6.5 category he laments never having a 6.5 Swede. Mikey.

[myronman3]

i see howa is coming out with a 6.5 swede in the 1500 with a hogue stock.   very interesting.....

[1911crazy]

Finding an affordable swedish mauser in 6,5mm swede or a chilean mauser in 7mm mauser isn't that hard to find.  I think a swedish mauser 6,5mm model M38 would work well.  I found both the 6,5mm and the 7mm mausers at guns shows for around $200 each.  There's still a lot of life left in these old war horses too.

My Swedish Carl Gustafs Model M96 in 6,5x55 will shoot 1 1/2" groups @ 100yds with no scope
and very little recoil too.  The 7mm mauser is the same way but it has a tad more power but the 7mm round 7x57 is one of the flatest shooting rounds there is too, zeroing it at 125yds its bullet path varies about 1/2" from the muzzle to 125yds.

[myronman3]

whatever she ends up with,  it will be in a modern quality firearm.   

[rickt300]

I consider all my Mausers modern high quality firearms, better safeties than most of the name brands and built to fit me. I guess if your just doing it the easy way then a 7-08 in a Remington would do it, especially if you load it down a bit.  Beyond that the 243/6MM's have never failed me either.

[Brithunter]

Hmmm whilst the Mauser's I have had and have are high quality I cannot really call them modern as the one I still have is a DWM made in about 1897, yes it's a model 1893. Now depending on when Mauser's were made and where, quality does vary after all it's difficult keeping quality up when raw materials are in short supply and the very factory making the rifles is being bombed frequently with resulting dmage and  interuptions of power etc.

Now some like my Parker-Hales are modern but are still built on the Mauser 98 action but Mauser and other firms like FN made many different Mauser models like the 1891, 1892/3, 1895/6 and of course the 1898 then later leading to other commercial Mauser's so we need to be a little more specific when talking Mauser's like the Model 66, 94 and 2000/300 series. Hey Mauser even confused the issue more by re-using the M96 designation on their Slide Bolt which was introduced in 1996.

[beemanbeme]

Modern firearm??  Then forget about the heirloom cartridges and get a .260 or a 7-08. You don't have to worry about under loaded ammo out of deference to 100 year old rifles still in use and such.  .260 and 7-08 may not sound as exotic as 6.5 Swede or 7Mauser but they are peas in a pod.

[rickt300]

I'm not sure I can call my 1896 Swede sporter modern (1907)but it is a reliable and accurate rifle. I was really referring to the rifles I have built on the M98 Mausers in7x57, 270 and 35 Whelen. I don't see the M700 Remington as having any real advantage over these rifles and don't like the safety design on them. I like the pre 64 Winchesters and copies thereof best but as push feeds go the due to the safety blocking the firing pin as it should the push feed M70's are the best of that breed.

[basdjs]

Just another thought to add to my earlier post and something else to consider.  Remington now sells "Managed Recoil " loads in 140 gr. in both .260 and 7MM-.08 to really lighten the recoil with virtually the same performance in normal whitetail hunting conditions.  Although they are expensive...$25 -$30 per box, it's a good consideration if you don't reload and in case you go with either caliber for your wife.  Managed recoil loads with a SIMS recoil pad on a rifle that fits well in either caliber and you should be in business for just about any hunt from ground hogs to mule deer (although I'm not sure I'd spend $1/round on a groundhog unless you really like the taste of groundhog ;-)  ) .

[Brithunter]

Hmmm it seems a post I made in reply has vanished into cyberspace !!!!!!!

Modern firearm??  Then forget about the heirloom cartridges and get a .260 or a 7-08. You don't have to worry about under loaded ammo out of deference to 100 year old rifles still in use and such.  .260 and 7-08 may not sound as exotic as 6.5 Swede or 7Mauser but they are peas in a pod.

It seems that it's only US ammunition makers which see the need to protect the shooter from themselves by underloading ammunition, especially cartridges like 7x57 and 8x57 yet in Europe the makers assume that the shooter has enough sense to buy and use the correct ammunition. of course there is another theory that if the US makers load especially yhe 8x57 to it's proper pressures it would show up the 30-06 and that cannot be allowed especially by a foriegn cartrdge.

Also if you load the 7x57 in a modern rifle action to the same pressure as the 7-08 the old 7x57 easily surpasses the 7-08 and the 7-08 does not handle the heavy bullets well as they have to intrude into the powder space too much due to it's short neck. Likewise the 260 both are attempts to reinvent the wheel if you like and I suppose to latch onto the short action fashion.

[myronman3]

like i said,  i handload EXTENSIVELY.   seems some people dont like to read the entire post.   right now the 6.5 swede and the 260 are the front runners.   i handload and can wring out what i want out of the cartridge.   like i said before,  i like full case capacity and the 260 and 6.5 swede are right at the power level i want for her.  they both have a great reputaion for accuracy.   

[rickt300]

I used my 6.5x55 a lot in the early 90's.  Feral hogs and deer went right down and penetration was excellent on them. My favorite bullets were the Hornady 140's in both spire point and round nose versions. I loaded them on top of 42.5 grains of IMR 4350 and had a mild recoiling load that would do anything I needed done at the time.  I built the 7x57 because I wanted to use 160 to 175 grain bullets at 2500 to 2600 fps on the largish feral hogs that began invading our lease and surrounding area. It also got backup duty as a foul weather elk rifle on a couple of hunts.  I don't know why I never liked the 260, probably because I already had a light 6.5x55.  I feel the same way about the 7-08 though both rounds have to be fine ones as the cartridges they were built to replace are also excellent.

[beemanbeme]

Coooome oooooon, Brit. I thought we had rolled that old chestnut around before. Sarcasm noted however.  I don't have too much experience in the .260/6.5 battle but I have been fooling with 7-08's for quite a while. My first one was a re-barrelled .243. The Douglas barrel read "7mm-.308". This was before it was a commercial round. It was originally developed for silhouette competition and quietly gained a following as a hunting rifle.
According to you traditionalist, the 7Mauser was so superior to the 7-08 that there was no comparison.  As more came to be known about the 7-08, you folks had to amend your information to read "with heavy bullets".  Well, I heard this so much I went out and bought a 7x57 to see for myself. An Interarms Mark X. For my 7-08 loading, I used a Remington Classic.  I didn't load any 175gr bullets but I daresay the Classic was throated for them. The Mark X certainly was. I did load some Hornady 154gr bullets.  I, of course, won't tell the loads but using strictly empirical observations I loaded each one until I felt enough was enough. There simply isn't a nickles (or trupence) worth of difference between the two.  They both kill deer very dead.  Having no elephants in West Virginia, I don't know how the 7-06 would handle that job. Perhaps if we could find a mad Englishman trekking in Africa............
If, when I got my first 7-8, I had gotten a 7x57, I daresay I probably would be on the other side of this argument. And that is my position on the .260/6.5 Swede discussion. Performancewise, they are the same cartridge.  Any information I have about the Swede, I gained from reading.  The information I have about the .260 is first hand as I have one.  It's a Remington model 788 and started life as a .243.  That length action won't accommadate a 6.5 Swede, not that I considered it, but it is a easy swap to a .260.
Since you reload, I reload, and Myronman reloads, we'll leave the relative merits of American and European ammo til another time.

[Brithunter]

Yes I reload but I also keep some factory on hand as some places refuse to allow the use of hand-loads and as I have to pay by the outing or day for hunting I have to allow for this and in 7x57 I use RWS 173 grain H-Mantle ammunition, although I need to get soem more as I am down to a box or so and the price now is rather steep but it does work superbly and is fairly accurate for factory ammunition. RWS claim a velocity of 770 M/sec which is roughly 2530 fps, now looking through my Vihtavuori 1st edition manual and comapring the 7x57 and 7-08 I am sorry to tell you that even running at it's normal pressures any bullet of 140 grain and over the 7-08 laggs behind the old 7mm Mauser cartridge even though it runs 10,000 psi higher pressure.

The RWS factory H-Mantle load is actually claimed to give a much higher velocity than any of the loads in the Viht handbook and is not an ammunition I would choose to fire through my Model 93 Mauser. This handbook does not have the 260 Rem cartridge in it so I cannot use it to compare the 6.5x55 and 260 Rem. I used the Viht manual because the RWS web site is all in meters per second so I needed data with the same unit measurements. Now some folks may wonder why use the heavy bullets but seeing the superb performance of the H-Mantle bullet on game I am pleased with it and have not been so pleased with the 139 grain bullets, they do kill game but did not have the same performance that this H-Mantle bullet gave, so I acquired some Remington 175 grain semi spitzer bulelts and have been playing with loads to try and find a load which balances what I want in accuracy and velocity. Oh as for the short action verses long action to me it's a non issue as I don't notice any difference, just pull the bolt back until it hits the stop and hey it works and the time difference of moving a bolt 1/8" more in the case of the 57mm case is nothing worth considering.

[rickt300]

I think for me the reason the 7x57 is better than the 7-08 is it fits M98 Mauser actions better.  I like the longer neck and have never loaded a bullet lighter than 139 grains in it.  It would also seem I could get maybe 100 fps more out of the 7x57 with this bullet weight in actions of the same length and throating that allows both cartridges to shine but that would be a small gain actually. However comparing the average short action in 7-08 to the M98 in 7x57 I feel that difference would be much greater with heavier longer bullets like the 160 grain Nosler Partition.  As for one having an advantage over the other as a deer rifle, short action or not I just can't see it.

[billy_56081]

Being a hand loader makes any of the mentioned cartridges a very viable option. All will make clean kills of game out to about the same range. If nostalgia is in  your logic on choosing a caliber then the only choice is 6.5 or 7mm mauser other than that how about you let the wife choose.nn

[RaySendero]

i am jonesing for a rifle for the misses.  the 270 is a little much for her, and i cant bring myself around to the 243.  honestly, the 257 might be a little light for my tastes as well but i think i could live with it.  just wondering if there is a caliber i might be overlooking; one friend has mentioned the 6.8 in a bolt, but for some reason it doesnt tickle my fancy. 

  i know i could down load the 270, but i like a full case and i think these other calibers are interesting.  a friend has a 260 for his wife, and the swede has my interest big time.   but try to find a rifle in them for a reasonable price.   yikes!   and i would like to stick to a bolt.

  thoughts, ideas, comments, opinions?

mm3,

You should rethink not loading down a 270 or 308!  Many times once someone starts hunting they find they can handle and want more power.  Try borrowing a 270 or 308 and getting some of Remington's Managed-Recoil ammo.  Let her shoot some - You just might find an acorn!


http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-Recoil.asp