260, 6.5 swede, 257, or 7x57?

[beemanbeme]

Short action/long action. You'll notice I didn't mention either. To me, to justify buying a 7-08 over a 7x57 to get the short action is as pointless as buying a 7x57 over the 7-08 to get the long action. It's a non-issue.

  It has been so long since I bought any commercial ammo of any sort, except .22, that I'm not really qualified to comment on it.  I do know that the data on the boxes and in their publications have only a nodding acquaintance with reality. At least in the US.  I know that from folks bringing their rifles by to sight them in with store bought ammo and running it thru my Chrony out of curiosity.

Perhaps you folks under load the 7-08 because of the poorly made colonial firearms. Especially those Remingtons you complain about.

Short action. Long action. Antique, modern. Buy what you like.  If you truly believe you're getting superior performance, you probably are.  Now then, just put on these red shoes and click your heels together three times.................

In Rickt300's case, if I were starting out with a 98 action, I would probably opt for the 7x57 because of the action length.  FYI, I have loaded some 160's in the 7-08. Sorta a let's see what they'll do.  No problems as I remember. Good accuracy, but then, everything I've shot thru the 7-08s has done well. And if memory serves me, my logs are in the shop, I got @ 2600fps w/o pushing things.  I've killed a couple of deer using 154gr Hornady RN deer and that bullet does a number on these 100# WV WT's. It might be interesting to see what they'd do to a hog.

[saltydog]

like i said,  i handload EXTENSIVELY.   seems some people dont like to read the entire post.   right now the 6.5 swede and the 260 are the front runners.   i handload and can wring out what i want out of the cartridge.   like i said before,  i like full case capacity and the 260 and 6.5 swede are right at the power level i want for her.  they both have a great reputaion for accuracy.   

  Some people do read the entire post - however other than your myopic view of the 243 WIN It would have been advantageous of you have provided more information as to your goals -just look'in for a gun for the 'lil misses doesn't really provide adaquate information for anything but a dart board approach - sort of like your review of possible calibers. Your stated for dislike of 257's further reduces the options to the 6.5 field of which there are several options - the new 6.5 Creedmoor. 6.5 x 47 Lapua or 6.5 Swede would be excellent choices for a medium caliber for mule deer, antelope and longer range midsize game hunting. However if you are just hunting whitetails in wooded areas a Marlin 336 in 30-30 WIN would be a better choice.

[myronman3]

thanks to all those who offered their experiences with the given calibers.   thanks to all those offering helpful information. 

  to the rest of you.... (namely saltydog).......

you know, if you would have read the entire post, you would have more information about what the requirements i am looking for are.   it is obvious you are just itching to be somebody and are trying it at my expense.   if you are going to flame me,  get your facts straight, or you are just going to make yourself out to be an idiot.   

your quote of

just look'in for a gun for the 'lil misses

leaves out where i stated i wanted it in a bolt,  a modern firearm that is accurate and packs a punch.   i stated i didnt like the 243, and truth be told the 257  bullet choices were a tad light for my taste.   several here had good suggestions and experiences they shared.  there was even some friendly debate.   one guy suggested a caliber i had overlooked (6..    you, however, come on here  acting like you HAVE read the entire post,  which it is obvious you did not.    marlin making 336's in a bolt now?   sheesh.   what more can i say?   

i can be a total prick, too.  a little less salt, and a bit more tack, perhaps?   something to think about.

[onesonek]

I'll just add, you'll have to go with your and her gut feeling on this mm3. While my vote went for the .260, The 6.5x55 Swede is a grand round and handloaded will out do the .260 to some extent.
I didn't bring up the .257 as you showed little interest, which is fine by me at any rate. But I did want to mention, I know a number of western women hunters, and better than 3/4 shoot the .257Rob loaded with 115 NP's and no complaints. Then again, the .257 isn't in over abundance of choices either whereas rifle's are are concerned also.
But I doubt very much you would be later disappointed with either the .260 or the Swede. Both are very practical performance wise for deer, and have the heavier bullet selection with greater SD than either the 6mm's or .25 cal., should you/she desire to use it on Elk. Personally I don't see the need for 140 gr. 6.5 for deer. I just had a 6.5 barrel built, and my bullets of choice for deer will be whatever shoots best between the 120gr. TSX, 125gr. NP, or 130gr. NAB, having SD's from  .246 - .266. Pretty much typical to moderately heavy deer weights.

well that puts me over a nickles worth


Dave

[saltydog]

thanks to all those who offered their experiences with the given calibers.   thanks to all those offering helpful information. 

  to the rest of you.... (namely saltydog).......
your quote of

just look'in for a gun for the 'lil misses

leaves out where i stated i wanted it in a bolt,  a modern firearm that is accurate and packs a punch.   i stated i didnt like the 243, and truth be told the 257  bullet choices were a tad light for my taste.   several here had good suggestions and experiences they shared.  there was even some friendly debate.   one guy suggested a caliber i had overlooked (6..    you, however, come on here  acting like you HAVE read the entire post ...

i can be a total prick, too.  a little less salt, and a bit more tack, perhaps?   something to think about.

  MM - It is obvious you can be a "total prick". I certainly did not mean to embarrass you. I was just trying to suggest it seems to me from your posts you are opinionated as to your calibers and already ruled out viable caliber options in the mid-level recoil range. You must have based you opinion on some criteria to determine everything under a 6.5 mm as being too light such as what type of game and terrain you would be hunting in. From your statements you must be focusing on large game otherwise several hunters using mid-level recoiling calibers such as 25:06, 257 Roberts and 243 WIN would be interested to know their choices are too light for hunting deer size game. Good luck on finding your quest - oh by the way I don't have any "tack" as I do not own horses. 

[myronman3]

oh by the way I don't have any "tack" as I do not own horses.

ya got me there, i meant "tact".   my bad.
   embarrass me?  nope.   not even a little.

hunters using mid-level recoiling calibers such as 25:06, 257 Roberts and 243 WIN would be interested to know their choices are too light for hunting deer size game.

all i said is they are too light for my tastes.   ciao.

[Dixie Dude]

The way I see it.  She likes the 270, but it is a "little" heavy on recoil.  260 Rem, 243 and 25-06 are out.  So that leaves the 7mm Mauser, 257 Roberts, and the 7mm08.  You said the 7mm08 was just like the 270, but is does have a smaller case capacity, so the recoil will be at least 10% lighter.  The 7mm08 ammo should be more availbale than the 7mm Mauser and the 257 Roberts.  However, these rifles will also be lighter with the shorter action.  If you reload, and she likes shooting the 270, shoot lighter loads and bullets to practice, step up to heavier loads for hunting.  I know a friend who uses 130 gr Speer BTHP 30-06 bullets loaded to max.  He says they don't kick as bad, and they are moving so fast they penetrate well enough for good deer kills with lung shots.  I think it is too light, but he swears by them.   

[rickt300]

In my area, Arlington Texas there are always more boxes of 7x57 on the shelves at the local Academy than either the 280 Rem or the 7-08. If he wants us to tell him what to get, and he reloads then a Remington model7 in 260 would be perfect for his woman.

[kenjs1]

Congrats on having a wife that wants to join you.  Keep it that way by giving her something as enjoyable as possible.  A few questions if I may;  wood or synthetic, and will she be carrying much?  Are we talking a lot of hiking or just a walk to a stand?   How much range time will she put in - I mean does she already enjoy shooting or are you trying to get her to enjoy it???   IMHO too many folks opt for lightweights or youth models for women and it turns out to be a mistake.  They are louder and have a robust kick and are no fun at the range.   For a woman I would recommend (against a general  consensus)  a little more weight and barrel length, a very good recoil pad,  and if synthetic - a better than standard factory stock.  As to caliber I like your choices.  A Bob would be great.  I am sold on the 6.5\260's and own a 260 Abolt Stalker  - unfortunately unavailable.  I  love the rifle after swapping the original stock - which felt great but had issues.  The B and C replacement has made a world of difference.    I convinced Dad to chuck his faithful but mulish  7mag in favor of a 6.5x55 CZ.  CZ's have decellerator recoil pads,  a little more weight- but not what I would call heavy- just  more or less traditional,  very safe\ strong actions with a fantastic\ extremely fun set trigger and are very soft shooting rifles.  It, like the Ruger Hawkeyes,  come with rings and either would work for a 6.5 with the Ruger offering the 260 (my preferred round) available as well.   If you do end up with a 260 I will be more than happy to share my load data on 140 Gamekings with you.  Extremely fast acting and marvelously accurate - though I understand you may opt for 120's or lighter in this case.

[rickt300]

Kind of a conundrum here as far as the 120 grain bullets go, the bigger 25 calibers handle them and they "are a bit light for his taste". The 140 grain bullets are perfect but might be a bit heavy? At our deer camp we have written rules and the big one is no wives, girlfriends welcome.

[rifleman]

260, 260, 260

I've got one that my son has claimed as his own. That leaves me with the 25-06 which is another fine round.

Dave

[myronman3]

Kind of a conundrum here as far as the 120 grain bullets go, the bigger 25 calibers handle them and they "are a bit light for his taste". The 140 grain bullets are perfect but might be a bit heavy? At our deer camp we have written rules and the big one is no wives, girlfriends welcome.

  i was raised in a hunting family, and i am the family figure head at our deer camp.   and in our camp, if you are a member of our family, and you want to hunt; you are as welcome as anyone.   
   she loves to shoot, and is pretty good at it.  from 22's to 44 magnums, she does really well.   it boils down to the 6.5 swede or the 260 remington depending on what i can find at the right time.  thanks for all your positive input. 

[thesteeleboy]

You may wish to consider a 6mm if you can find one. Basically a 243 but with a different twist, a little more speed, and designed to shoot a little heavier bullet. I know Ruger still builds one, and I have been very impressed with it's deer killing capability's, and it wont tear her arm off. If she flinches because she knows the kick is coming from a larger rifle, It wont matter what caliber it is because she will likely miss.

[rickt300]

Our lease is more of a Men's club.  We have mandatory poker games, the kind of things wives don't like and no non lease members are allowed during deer season. After all $1800. a year is some bucks. Our kids or wives could come out if they were lucky enough to be paying lease members but otherwise the only hunting non lease members can do is feral hogs and not during deer season.

[Sweetwater]

Not much fun for me there - My wife makes my deer camp a great place. And I don't frequent where she isn't welcome.

To the OP, she would be comfortable with anything "I" loaded for her in "any" of the calibers mentioned. Like me, she likes her rifles short, light and handy. We do a lot of walking and no tree stand type hunts. She never really liked the 30-30Winchester as it kicked her too much. To her, there was no real difference in handling between her 243 and our 257's. I say "our" as we inherited both my dad's 257Rob and my gramp's 257Rob under condition that we share them. Both are Rem722's and wear custom stocks that my dad carved. My very first rifle was a military 6.5x55. My last purchase was a Ruger 77 MKII 6.5x55. Always wanted a commercial model - now it's on the rack. Several of my friends have started their daughters on 6.5 Swedes. Must be something there.

I can say that as a handloader's wife, your's probably really appreciates the effort you are putting into helping her with her selection - and - your efforts to make her ammunition that will work downrange and not punish her in the process. A good fitting stock, a proper buttpad and a slick action can be greatly enhanced at the loading bench. My wife shoots countless rounds downrange that are very light recoiling, to the point where I can up the ante just a tad for her hunting stuff without any discomfort - because she's practiced up and confident. She also shoots a few of the hunting loads at each session, but several boxes of the lighter loads. When the rubber meets the road, she puts on a big smile and puts it in the freezer. And it's generally the 6.5 or the 257 that she chooses on any given day. On deer, it just doesn't make any difference, when you can put the bullet where it belongs.

Sounds to me like you've got some great days ahead of you!! Happy hunting to you and yours!!

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Mikey]

Myronman3 - if it has come down to the 6.5 Swede or the 260 - I would go with a new rifle in the 260. 

I like the 6.5 Swede - I think most of the folks I have corresponded with know this.  I like the caliber and the quality of the old M96s they were chambered for but, they are not the lightest weight rifles to cart around through the woods.  Actually, what I really like is a 6.5mm slug traveling in the 6.5mm Swedish velocity range and with the same degree of accuracy, which means the 260 will suffice nicely. 

Years ago I became 'enamored' of the 6.5 caliber while using the 6.5 Carcano - that darn thing shot through more game than I can recall.  I just couldn't find a 6.5 in that caliber capability, in a smaller lightweight action, short of the Swede - which is mil-spec.  I had always felt that if someone chambered a new lightweight action in the Carcano round it would be perfect - well, they did it but it came out as the 260, a very practical application and a truly practically perfect choice.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[nomosendero]

Kind of a conundrum here as far as the 120 grain bullets go, the bigger 25 calibers handle them and they "are a bit light for his taste". The 140 grain bullets are perfect but might be a bit heavy? At our deer camp we have written rules and the big one is no wives, girlfriends welcome.

  i was raised in a hunting family, and i am the family figure head at our deer camp.   and in our camp, if you are a member of our family, and you want to hunt; you are as welcome as anyone.   
   she loves to shoot, and is pretty good at it.  from 22's to 44 magnums, she does really well.   it boils down to the 6.5 swede or the 260 remington depending on what i can find at the right time.  thanks for all your positive input. 

myronman3
Looks like you have settled in the right spot to me! 

I have been out of town again for the past few days & just now looking at the last couple of pages.

260/6.5 is great when you consider all of the aspects, in particular for ladies & younger hunters, as you need to look at performance relative to size of weapon, recoil & overall shootability.

The big .25 cal. rounds with bullets like the 115/120NP, 110Acc. or 100/115TSX and the heavier cup & core bullets are up to the task with ease
on any Deer out to 400yds. as I have done many times with my Sendero, but to get the vel./performance that we expect with the big 25's, we
normally have 24-26" tubes & guns a wee bit heavy for ladies. The 270 is great & I don't think my ADL kicks much at all, but my Wife thinks it kicks
just a little more than she prefers. The 7-08 & 7mm Mau. are fine as well, but for Deer sized game the 6.5 bore will never be lacking in performance.

Years ago I bought my Wife a 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser & had a Timney & Decelerator installed. It is a fine weapon with great accuracy, light recoil
& fine performance. The only bullet we ever recovered was in the off shoulder of a big AR. Hog. I now load for her 130 gr. Accubonds. You don't
need a prem. bullet like this for Deer, but the bullet offers several advantages for us that make it a fine all-round bullet. The bullets are loaded to
2,800fps & shoot plently flat out to her limit of 300 yards & have great terminal performance up close or at her limit on any animal she shoots.
This of course could be duplicated with the 260 or Creedmoor. If she wants to shoot targets with you, the 6.5 will run with any unless you go to
ALOT bigger round. Here is a good article concerning the long range capabilities:

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

Good luck in your search for the right rifle.

[flyboy]

i am jonesing for a rifle for the misses.  the 270 is a little much for her, and i cant bring myself around to the 243.  honestly, the 257 might be a little light for my tastes as well but i think i could live with it.  for a reasonable price.   yikes!   and i would like to stick to a bolt.

  thoughts, ideas, comments, opinions?

Well, Yeah. As you have seen, opinions are like elbows... 'most everybody has two.  The .270 is a lovely cartridge, despite Elmer Keith's  opinion it it  a..."damned fine coyote rifle..."

The recoil heirarchy is this, (sort of) 

30-06
.270
A lot of people can shoot them, but would rather not.

Then, at approximately 70-75% of their recoil, comes
7X57
308
7mm-08
Many people can shoot these calibers, but have remarked "They didn't realize it kicked so much."

The "comfortable" cartridges are:

.260
6.5X55
.257 Roberts
6mm Remington
.243

The above was a closely as I remember from a study that appeared in a book I read years ago. It was by a fairly prominent gun writer, whose name escapes me. 

Fact:  You shoot best with what kicks you least.  Women and kids, not having to prove their "manliness" will say "forget it"  when abused by a hard-kicking rifle.

A reasonable weight rifle and a GOOD recoil pad will make a world of difference, even on  the .243.   Managed or lessened recoil ammo from a couple of makers will tame the recoil of the .270 and '06.  And, you can load them down, for minor relief.

I went to a 257 Roberts as age increased, and arthritis, when the recoil of my .270 became too grim for me to enjoy shooting it.

[Brithunter]

Ahhh if you liked the Carcano and want a proper commercial rifle chambered in something similar then I suggest you dig deep in your pockets and search out a Mannlicher model 1903 Schoenauer in the 6.5x54MS cartridge. Now I will warn you that this course of action will likely ruin you for other rifles as after the Schoenauer they will feel rough and clunky. Oh yes scoping is a little bit involved due the actions split rear bridge but there are side mounts and special top mounts made to fit them just as there has always been. I couldn't afford a good Schoenauer so brought a rough one and are slowly re-building it. It's got a brand new Steyr made barrel in 6.5x54MS and been re-blacked now I just need a new stock to replace the heavily modded and shortened one it came with, sure it's shootable but I want a stock that fits me. This proccess has not been cheap but at the end I will have a custom like new Schoenauer that shoots well.


Oh the the 1903 Model Schoenauer lacks felt recoil and is not heavy either and came in fullstock which most folks know about and also the half stocked styles that most folks don't seem to know about. There was also the earlier moder 1892 and 1893 that used a rimmed version of the cartridge butt hat has a magazine case which hangs down and most Americans for some reason cannot cope with that it seems.

[Dave in WV]

Brithunter, we most likely seem an odd lot to folks in Europe. Our tastes in firearms seem quite different. The newer CZ small action Mauser rifles  have a magazine that sticks out under the stock and many folks here don't like it. I saw an advertisement for modified magazines that fit flush. The modified magazine only holds two rounds IIRC.

[Brithunter]

Nope not odd you should see some of those Europeans heck you should see some of the Brits  this is the Model 1892 I mentioned:-


 




OK this one was finished By John Rigby of London, yes that Rigby's. Here is another by another maker retailed:-



  This is the Schoenauer I picked up:-





Here it is with the new barrel but you can see why I want a new stock, funds are preventing any progress on that at this time but hey there is no hurry.
Oh I should add that it has a very short butt. I am thinking it was nicely done for a child of small stature lady.

[j two dogs]

I have a 6.5 swede that I picked up some years ago when Kimber was sporterizing them, pretty simple affair original military barrel with the step contoured out and the barrel cutdown with a ramline stock and drilled and tapped, and bolt cut a rewelded, has the carl gustoff crest right on top of the receiver.

And I further sported it, had the barrel cut back to 17.5 inches cut and re-contoured the stock and had the trigger down to 2 lbs.
I load two bullets for this particular rifle, using imr 4064 for both loads. One is a 125 gr. nosler partion, the other is a Hornady 129 gr. spire point, they both shoot same poi, and they both never fail to shoot under an inch.

The first time my 16 year old daughter shot it, she scored three shots in the bull under 1 inch, I asked her if it kicked her, she shrugged and said not bad.

This gun is not expensive, and is not the prettiest gun i own, but pretty is as pretty does, this is one that the Lord willin will never leave my gun safe.

[j two dogs]

I forgot to mention that some time ago I read somewhere, and I maybe totally mistaken, somebody correct me if I am.
That a 6.5x55 and a .270. given the same bullet weight the .270 will beat the 6.5 at the muzzle but with the 6.5 higher ballistic coefficient somewhere around the 350 yard mark it will out perform ie total inches dropped from the muzzle to 350 yds.

That is why I was told that so many bench rest shooters liked that 6.5, and why I think it was  Charmical excuse the spelling harranged Remington to make a ballistic equivalent the 260.

[AtlLaw]

<snip> dig deep in your pockets and search out a Mannlicher model 1903 Schoenauer in the 6.5x54MS cartridge.<snip>

Oh would that I could FIND one!!!     Them's the most beautifullest rifle guns and one of the bestus cart-a-ges ever made!     I gave up looking a number of years ago and had my one and only custom built rifle made along their lines...   6.5 Swede though.

[Cheesehead]

Myronman

Sporterized military rifles are cool. This is a pic of mine. It is beautiful and the most accurate gun I own. It is not modern, made in 1899. A model 96 with the original stock, modern Leopold scope and modern Timiney trigger, chambered in 6.5x55. I know you said you wanted a modern rifle but modern is a relative term.

[Brithunter]

Ahhh here is my sporterised Swedish Mauser, action is a Gustav and from about 1905:-



  I am only responsible for the bolt handle as I had that fitted to replace the std one that had just been bent down. The rifle was converted by some commercial operation and they fitted a new barrel and some other new parts so it's a forced matched rifle.

   As for the Schoenauer, I paid £225 for it but the barrel was bad. The new barrel cost £117 and fitting, proof and blacking cost another £240 so I have over $1000 in it so far. Next is a new stock and I might as well get a nice piece of wood for that so it will have to wait a while so I can get the funds together. I am also considering changing the scope mounts as the ones on it are cheap looking and the see through type which I am not fond of. I have a couple of German rail mount scopes i picked up off an auction site and one of those would be better fitted and in keeping with the rifle.

  Oh my hunting mentor has a 1903 Schoenauer that he had re-barreled and altered slighty in Belguim to 243 Winchester and despite years of use it still shoots very well.

[Sweet 6.5]

 

Brithunter - I see a crack in the Swede's stock! It is ruined!
I will PM you my address - just send it to me and I
will dispose of it for you - even free of charge!

Sweet

[Brithunter]

 

Brithunter - I see a crack in the Swede's stock! It is ruined!
I will PM you my address - just send it to me and I
will dispose of it for you - even free of charge!

Sweet

Yep it's ruined alright  the barrel is a mis-match and I had to replace the firing pin after a couple of over pressure PMC factory rounds snapped it in half and sent the rear of it into my glasses and then over my shoulder. And then the rear sight is missing, took it off to clear the Meopta 7x50 scope and the trigger has been bent back to position it further to the rear of the guard to make it more comfortable, forgotten I had done that  yep ruined although the deer don't seem to notice as they just fall over dead.


 No once I decide it's not longer safe to use or just get fed up with it I will just have to cut it up or hand it in to Plod to be destroyed ,however seeing as they cannot seem to anything right  , it's best I just cut it up as I couldn't let anyone else take the risk of using such an old clunker  so as you see I am quite capable of dispossing of it myself!

[rickt300]

My 6.5x55 is almost identical to Cheeseheads. Though it is not my most accurate rifle it is plenty accurate.

[chickenlittle]

I've been researching what to get for my fiance for about 8 months now. I keep changing my mind while getting her started with a .22lr and plan to bump up to a .22 hornet or .223 this summer for ground hogs. We'll also start her shooting one of my muzzleloaders where we can start with light target loads and work up.

As all these calibers work fine for deer, figure out which rifle you/she wants and then worry about the caliber. I'm also looking for bigger than a .243. I'd prefer to stay with inexpensive rifles so I'm thinking Howa, Mossberg, Stevens/Savage or CZ. I'd like to go with a .260 Rem but it isn't available from these makers. So maybe we'll go with a 7mm-08 when I think she's ready to step up as this is chambered in many rifles. Howa and CZ chamber the 6.5x55 so that is a possibility. I have also started researching 7.62x39 which is available in CZ's line.

So I'd say figure out the rifle first and pick from the cailbers available.

I know some people that don't allow women to hunt with them. A woman who grew up by me isn't allow to hunt with her husband's father and uncle. So she hunts on her parent's farm and usually shoots a nicer buck each year than they do. Personally, I'm tickled my fiance is willing...as long as it isn't too cold out.