New KP1 Break open Rifle

[Fred M]

This rifle by Knight is available with interchangeable, rimfire, centerfire, shotgun and muzzle loader all on one action. A fine looking rifle and quite accurate.
comes in 17HMR,22lr,223, 243 , 270, 30-06, 45-70, 12 and 20g and 50 cal ML. A very interesting setup. Barrels are interchangeable without fitting.

It is featured in the April 2008 American Rifleman.

[Cowpox]

Here is the link.   http://www.knightrifles.com/PressReleases/Knight-Rifles-KP1.htm

[shooter6br]

The 45-70 barrel is not listed. How heavy is the rifle?  Are the barrels all sporter weight?

[quickdtoo]

They're available.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,140798.msg1098558325.html#msg1098558325

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_301/products_id/50095

http://www.knightrifles.com/PressRoom/Releases/History_Meets_Technology_In_The_KP1_Wurfflein.htm

[tgriffin]

whenever I click on the knight rifle links posted, it tells me that page is not available. I did a search at their home page for the KP-1 and came up empty.
I have tried before to find info on these rifles and have struck out every time. Are they really for sale ?

[Tom W.]

Hey Griff, Good to see you here! I think it's a case like the Savage Model 25... Seen the pictures and ads, but not one rifle yet..

[quickdtoo]

They're available, Bud's has em, so does RR there are several here that own them, dunno what's up with the link, the KP1 is on the home page tho. Several threads on them in the Knight forum here.

Tim

http://www.knightrifles.com/

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GP1M20950BC

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GP1M20950SB0

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GP1M20950SC

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?board=216.0

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS235US236&q=knight+KP1

[tgriffin]

Hey Tom W, I had Steve at Northside order one of the 25's in just so we could look at and handle one. Thinking of trading my mini 14 in on a bolt action 223 and really like the looks of the 25. Hopefully he will get it this week and will let you know.

Hurry and get well.

[tgriffin]

Caliber selection is kinda disappointing. wonder if they have plans to expand the caliber lists.

[STUMPJMPR]

The best i can tell Knight came out with the KP1 to market primarly for the Primitive Weapon market  here in Misssissippi which H&R has dominated here...They built it off of a pre 1900 patent so that it would be legal for primitive weapon...I still believe here in Ms the H&R will out sell it do to the price difference....

[Winter Hawk]

From the Knight site:

KP1 Transforms the Legend
Knight Rifles introduces the KP1 “utility rifle,” a gun that transforms from muzzleloader to centerfire rifle to rimfire rifle to shotgun in the blink of an eye. With a full complement of calibers – plus shotgun barrels – one KP1 can truly serve all seasons. In addition to .50 caliber muzzleloader, barrel calibers include: .17 HMR, .22 LR, .204 Ruger, 22-250, .223 Rem., .243 Win., .270 Win., .308, .30-06, .300 Win. Mag., and 45-70. Shotgun barrels include 12-gauge smoothbore, 12-gauge muzzleloader, 12-gauge 3-inch rifled slug and 20-gauge 3-inch rifled slug. Green Mountain Barrel Company – known for quality and consistency – manufactures all rifle barrels, and triggers are designed for consistent and crisp breaks. The new KP1 features a variety of stock options including Next G1 camouflage and composite black, as well as brown sandstone laminate in select models.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Knight Rifles Introduces the All-New KP1™ Utility Gun System. Legendary quality and reliability now with unparalleled versatility
Knight’s all-new KP1™ utility gun is the only gun that can be transformed from a muzzleloader to centerfire rifle to rimfire rifle in the blink of an eye! This new utility rifle comes in three rifle configurations: The Knight KP1 Whitetail series starts as a .50 caliber muzzleloader that accommodates a 209 primer ignition system and consumers can choose from several combination packages with 3 additional centerfire calibers, two barrel finishes and two stock finishes; the Knight KP1 Varmint series combination package features a rimfire/centerfire caliber option; and the Knight KP1 Magnum series interchangeable gun system starts as a .50 caliber muzzleloader that accommodates a 209 primer ignition system in three stock finishes and two barrel finishes. Knight offers 7 additional popular caliber options to choose from.
Click the KP1 Brochure link below for complete details and specifications for each model.
To order this rifle, please visit our Dealer Locator to find a dealer near you. This model will not be available for sale online at KnightRifles.com nor through our Customer Service Department.


For the brochure: http://www.knightrifles.com/NR/rdonlyres/A10BAE50-B4B8-4129-AC0A-55C760900624/5863/KP1_Brochure.pdf

-Winter Hawk-

[olsingleshot]

I have one I am using for an article. It is in .223 and weighs in at 7.5 pounds without scope and mounts. It is a better rifle than the Encore and I have two of them and have owned several more. The accuaracy can be sub  1/2 MOA with the right bullet. Yes it will be coming out in other calibers in the future. If you want a specific caliber ask and maybe if enough people want it, it will come.

[yooper77]

The Knight KP1 cannot be compared to the Thompson Center Encore.  I know this is a rifle forum, but when Knight gets done copycatting T/C to include pistol barrels and grips then we can compare them.  I have achieved ½ MOA with my T/C Encore rifle barrels, so Knight doesn’t have anything over the Encore in my eyes.  I am willing to bet there rifle will have the same growing pains as any other, once it is more available.  Does this rifle still use the funny full plastic jacket for the 209 primer still?

yooper77

[olsingleshot]

First let me say I own two Encores and like them a lot. I said the KP1 is a better RIFLE, not pistol or muzzleloader, RIFLE. The KP1 is far from being a copy cat. There are literally over a hundred companies and gunsmiths that do nothing but improve Encores.  The KP1 has a free floating barrel, stronger chamber, far better trigger out of the box, easier no tools required take down, a hammer safety that makes it  safer to de-cock and a push button to break open. It is not designed to be turned into a psitol. When you have a chance to compare the Encore and KP1 (out of the box) then let me know what you think. 

[yooper77]

Yes, the KP1 is a copycat RIFLE, but that’s ok someone has to start the inventions.  T/C started I believe back in 1967 with the Contender.

If a true comparison is in order then the Encore will surpass the KP1 with no effort at all, since it can be a successful rimfire & centerfire rifle, muzzleloader, shotgun and rimfire & centerfire pistol.  KP1 can be converted from a rimfire & centerfire rifle, muzzleloader, shotgun, but not a pistol yet and may never be who knows.

 The custom shops come on board when there is a product success like the Encore and they too want to reap the benefits along with creating aftermarket products or custom items.  Some of these do improve factory items.

I have already heard about trigger problems with the KP1.   Doesn’t’ this KP1 muzzleloader still use the FPJ (full plastic jacket) thingy?  I never liked this concept and ridiculous design.  I like the Encore breech plug and simple use of the standard 209 primer.

Stronger chamber?  I am not sure what this means, but if you are referring to a stronger frame, I see no supporting facts or evidence.  Simply not true.
No tools take down?  I agree the KP1 is quick to take down, but I have no reason to speedy swap barrels during a hunt or anytime in the field.  I do carry my screw driver with me, so still not an issue to breakdown.
Free floating barrel?  I have no issues with my factory forends gives me ½” MOA.
Trigger out of box?  I have no issues with my factory trigger gives me ½” MOA.  I heard there are problems with this already with the KP1.
Hammer safety?  I am my own best safety.  So now someone has to remember to use the safety before de-cocking, hmm.
Push button to break open, ok the Encore uses a trigger mechanism as you realize.
   All , mute points to me.

I have used my T/C factory Encore (out of box) since 1997 and I know there won’t be a KP1 in my future.

I wish you success and fun with your KP1 article, thank you,
yooper77

[rex6666]

Never fails, when something new comes along, and people are trying to show others the new toy
some one that has probably never seen one has to tell us how it is not as good as his. I have
never seen one up close and personal, but looks like an OK piece, haven't shot one so i can't
say anything is wrong with it. I will not make any judgments until i have fondled one.

[olsingleshot]

Good for you Rex!!!!!!!!! I love both rifles but Knight has addressed some of the problems T/C has not. If Knight is a copy cat then the T/C is copying the H&R. I now own both rifles and as a RIFLE the Knight is better. As far as versatility the T/C is best and maybe in in the muzzle loading area also. I am objective in my views. I have written far more about the Encore than the KP1 and with one in hand and shooting it, I have to admit it is better. Sure they do not spend the advertising dollars that T/C does but I think the KP1 can give the Encore a run for it's money. In over 45 years of shooting I have sent back three rifles or barrels and they were all T/C. But T/C has the best customer service in the industry. Just remember when you see a hunting show using the Encore, who is paying for that advertising? And the answwer is not T/C, you the Encore buyer.

[yooper77]

KP1, which stands for "Knight Phase One”, looks like Knight isn’t done improving theirs either, just needing to get a piece of the market.

OK, if H&R was the first that’s cool; T/C copied them and 41 years later here comes Knight.

I agree to disagree with you that the KP1 is a better RIFLE then the Encore.

Never fails, people always seem to assume they know who may have seen the product first hand and who hasn’t.  I never said I didn't see one up close and personal.  One purpose of forums is for discussions of likes and dislikes.

Like any company there is more hype then product, which will come to light after the KP1 is out in the market.  In order to market a new product Knight will attack their competitor T/C and attempt to convince the customer their product is superior over the others.  I don’t see any problems from my Encore addressed by Knight, so I call their statements false, so those are mute points to me.  I am challenging Knight, not trying to kill the messenger.

I have heard Knight has excellent customer service just like T/C and that’s just smart business in this day and age.  I have never had to return any of my T/C firearms or barrels.

I agree that the KP1 will give the Encore a run for its money, but neither will die off.

I am not privilege to actual finances spent on advertising from Knight or T/C, so I cannot debate your statements.  I have to ask you how you would know actual financial facts about both companies.  What do you have to support your specific findings?

Isn’t a firearm company in the business to make money, so where else would their funds come from then from their customers, I am not sure I get your point about the commercials?  Seems to be an obvious statement to me.

yooper77

[30-06man]

Out of the box the quality is comparable. The KP1's trigger is better, they seem to be of the same quality, the Knight offers for as far as ML's go. You can shoot conicals better and it would be more versatile. You get 2 breach plugs the FPJ and the plane 209 breach plug. The Knight offers easier take down and a little cheaper price. For versatility the TC but if you want quality for cheaper prices and a very good ML which is one of the best on the market the Knight. Both have their positives and negatives.

[rex6666]

Never fails some people just have to make accusations, the comment was "probably never seen one"
and "I,I,I have never seen one up close and personal. Yes the forum is to compare, not contradict
every thing some one else says when they are only trying to show a new toy.

[yooper77]

olsingleshot,

When is the article going to be published in the Varmint Hunters Magazine?

I am sure the KP1 will find its own spot in the market, but will not replace the Encore.

The KP1 will have it own problems, just a matter of time.

The Knight KP1 is a lot like the very older Thompson Center Rifle (TCR), but the forend uses a lever not a button.

Thompson Center TCR 83 Deluxe (double trigger) was first made in 1983 and discontinued in 1991.
Thompson Center TCR 87 Hunter (single trigger) was first made in 1987 and discontinued in 1991.

yooper77

[olsingleshot]

Varmint Hunters Magazine. When? I have no idea that is up to the editor.

[Nrut]

olsingleshot...I'll have to re-subcribe to the Varmit Hunter Magazine...I'am  looking forward to reading your article and will most likey be buying a KP1 when they become available here in Canada......wish they had come out years ago...

[yooper77]

I really like Varmint Hunter Magazine.

Does anyone know why Jim Shockey left Knight for Thompson Center?  My guess would be a big money issue.

yooper77

[kyelkhunter3006]

When Shockey first made the move, he had a statement on his website regarding his decision.  It said (in short form) that he didn't agree with the avenues that Knight was taking with their products and corporate decisions (for whatever reason) and that he didn't feel comfortable endorsing a product from a company in that situation.  He also said that he personally apologized to Tony Knight (who doesn't really have anything to do with Knight anymore, or at that time either) for leaving for such reasons, and that they are still very close.

If you spend any time on his website, and look at the videos, there's footage of him still using Knight rifles on some hunts, even after endorsing Thompson Center.  I'm sure that there was and is a money decision involved with the change, as T/C dominates the market, regardless of what other people may think.  CVA may claim to sell more guns, and may be able to prove it, but NO ONE has the media presence of T/C or the name recognition that they have.

Shockey does his own thing, and I respect him for it.  He will tell you flat out that he refuses to use Shockwave bullets, because he feels that they aren't the best choice available. He uses Partition or Swift saboted bullets, as he very rarely will shoot longer than 100 yds, and that he considers anything past 100 yds with ANY muzzleloader as LONG range shooting and that it shouldn't be attempted without much practice.  I read about a lot of people saying that Shockey Gold Powder sucks accuracy wise, so why does he endorse it?  Well, since he doesn't stretch the shots, if he's only getting 4" groups at 100 yds, that'll serve perfectly well for him.  And he doesn't have to worry about cleaning between shots, right? 

[yooper77]

I didn't know all that, I just remember when I started seeing him with T/C instead of Knight.

Well sounds like Jim Shockey is a very smart man.

yooper77

[30-06man]

When Shockey first made the move, he had a statement on his website regarding his decision.  It said (in short form) that he didn't agree with the avenues that Knight was taking with their products and corporate decisions (for whatever reason) and that he didn't feel comfortable endorsing a product from a company in that situation.  He also said that he personally apologized to Tony Knight (who doesn't really have anything to do with Knight anymore, or at that time either) for leaving for such reasons, and that they are still very close.

If you spend any time on his website, and look at the videos, there's footage of him still using Knight rifles on some hunts, even after endorsing Thompson Center.  I'm sure that there was and is a money decision involved with the change, as T/C dominates the market, regardless of what other people may think.  CVA may claim to sell more guns, and may be able to prove it, but NO ONE has the media presence of T/C or the name recognition that they have.

Shockey does his own thing, and I respect him for it.  He will tell you flat out that he refuses to use Shockwave bullets, because he feels that they aren't the best choice available. He uses Partition or Swift saboted bullets, as he very rarely will shoot longer than 100 yds, and that he considers anything past 100 yds with ANY muzzleloader as LONG range shooting and that it shouldn't be attempted without much practice.  I read about a lot of people saying that Shockey Gold Powder stinks accuracy wise, so why does he endorse it?  Well, since he doesn't stretch the shots, if he's only getting 4" groups at 100 yds, that'll serve perfectly well for him.  And he doesn't have to worry about cleaning between shots, right? 

He takes long range shots with some reaching past 250 yards. Some have had very good luck with the Jim Shocky's Gold and some haven't had luck. I would say he is shooting better than 4inches at 100.

[kyelkhunter3006]

I never said that he didn't shoot long, his words in print were that he rarely takes long shots.  His pet load is a 300 grain Nosler sabot and a 150 gr load of Gold.  I'm sure that he's getting better groups than that as well, just like I know for a fact that any gun that he uses is handpicked at the factory by himself or Gregg Ritz.  Being in the industry gives you access to the best that's available from any given company.  When it comes to endorsements, the company will make sure you have the cream of the crop to pick from.

[30-06man]

I never said that he didn't shoot long, his words in print were that he rarely takes long shots.  His pet load is a 300 grain Nosler sabot and a 150 gr load of Gold.  I'm sure that he's getting better groups than that as well, just like I know for a fact that any gun that he uses is handpicked at the factory by himself or Gregg Ritz.  Being in the industry gives you access to the best that's available from any given company.  When it comes to endorsements, the company will make sure you have the cream of the crop to pick from.

Encore Endeavor and Leupold VX7. That's what he will be using soon.

[yooper77]

Has anyone heard of or experienced any problems yet with the KP1?

Was it a Knight muzzleloader that exploded recently?

yooper77