Author Topic: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran  (Read 8101 times)

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2008, 01:15:38 PM »
  TM7 that link you have is one of the biggest distortions of history I have ever read. Joseph Gerbils would have been proud to have written it. The part about Israels "Pearl Harbor" like attack on Egypt in the 67 war cracked me up. You have to be saying all of this stuff in jest, just trying to make us all laugh. I really hope you change your mind and join us for the Bar B Que, we need you there as the comic relief.

  Now back to the subject of this post, Iran is the key supplier of weapons to the terrorists working within Iraq and also the Taliban in Afghanistan. Iran is responsible for the deaths of many of our soldiers, American soldiers. And if we have to nuke and kill 20,000,000 muslim animals to save one Americans life. At twice that many I feel it would be a bargain. A good friend of mines son was killed in Iraq a year and a half ago. He was killed by an EFP, these weapons are linked directly to Iran, I would like anyone here to tell Brent Koch's father that these animals in Iran deserve anything better than death. Don't give mre this cry baby crap that they are just trying to get by and it's thier governments fault. Anyone that says that needs to move back to jolly old England, you do not deserve the freedoms that our forefathers in the Revolutionary War sacrificed themselves for. In fact that train of thought is an insult to all who have sacrificed themselves in wars for your freedom and secuity.

 
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline ironglow

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2008, 03:12:17 PM »
If things work out right...Iran will be at war with itself !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2008, 03:45:12 PM »
Ironglow, yes, Israel is in a tight spot.  They have been since 1948.

However, there are a lot of other peoples in this world that suffer war and persecution without so much as a mention in the press or a dollar of US aid.  The Israelis have a very powerful lobby in Washington, hence they get the attention and the dollars.  Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

As for the "War on Terror," my thoughts are this.  The whole thing goes back to 1919, with the fall of the Ottoman Empire.  The British came into the mid-east and arbitrarily grouped people of different ethnicities, languages, and religious sects into nations based purely on lines on a map.  It was also between the wars that someone discovered that a certain black liquid was located under the desert.

After WWII, we came along and decided to meddle in the affairs of the Arabs even more.  In the name of providing ourselves cheap oil and denying it to the Soviets, we installed puppet dictatorships of the very lowest order.  We denied these people the right to choose their own government for generations.

We also gave the Jews their own state.  The problem was that there happened to be people living there already!  Whoops!  So now, they're fighting, big surprise.  And their neighbors are helping them, which also surprises us!  Do you think we would help the Canadians if some Korean exiles decided that they were going to start their own country in Toronto and got a pile of money and weapons from the Chinese?

So time passes, and the Soviets get the notion that they are going to invade Afghanistan.  At first, they're whipping the Afghans.  The other Arabs hear about this, and decide that they ought to come help the Afghans.  We hear about that, and figure, "What the hey, let's send them some weapons and teach them insurgency tactics.  The Ruskies deserve a little payback for that Vietnam thing."  So we send them some money and some weapons and some CIA dudes to teach them stuff.  And things go well.  The Arabs hand it to the Soviets, who pack up their toys and go home.

At the same time, some other Arabs have been fighting the Israelis.  When the Arabs who were up in Afghanistan get done whipping the Soviets, they decide to make this fighting infidels thing a steady gig.  So they set up shop in Lebanon and Syria and start killing Jews.  They got so comfy in fact, that they started a civil war.  When the US sent some Marines over, the Arabs decided to bomb them, and Ronnie Regan (wisely) brought the rest of the Marines home.

About this same time, some of the other fellers who had been listening to the same jive talk about about killin' infidels and such decide that they don't much like the Shah feller that whitey has set up on the throne in Iran.  So they decide to send the Shah packing, and the rest is history.

In the 80's, a feller named Saddam who was bought and paid for by the Europeans and Americans decided that he was going to invade Iran.  He bought some poison gas (from us) and used it on the Iranians.

If you're still not seeing the pattern here, I'll spell it out for you.  Our meddling in the affairs of middle-eastern nations is the source of the terrorism problem we're currently dealing with.  If you take away the source of a problem (in this case, our own meddling) you will reduce and eventually eliminate the problem.  If we leave the Arabs alone, the fire in their bellies will die out.  They will not be able to recruit more terrorists if they have no battleground to use for propaganda purposes.  In time only the small core of hardline fanatics will be preaching jihad, like it was before the 20th century.

What's absolutely certain is that we will never defeat terrorism using our current method.  When the enemy welcomes death in battle and your very presence in their lands is their call to arms, you will not win by killing them unless you kill all of them, which is simply not an option.

Quote
Now back to the subject of this post, Iran is the key supplier of weapons to the terrorists working within Iraq and also the Taliban in Afghanistan. Iran is responsible for the deaths of many of our soldiers, American soldiers. And if we have to nuke and kill 20,000,000 muslim animals to save one Americans life. At twice that many I feel it would be a bargain. A good friend of mines son was killed in Iraq a year and a half ago. He was killed by an EFP, these weapons are linked directly to Iran, I would like anyone here to tell Brent Koch's father that these animals in Iran deserve anything better than death. Don't give mre this cry baby crap that they are just trying to get by and it's thier governments fault. Anyone that says that needs to move back to jolly old England, you do not deserve the freedoms that our forefathers in the Revolutionary War sacrificed themselves for. In fact that train of thought is an insult to all who have sacrificed themselves in wars for your freedom and secuity.

Well, luckily for the world, you're not the one who calls the shots.  I'm sorry for your friend's loss.  I lost a good friend and classmate in Iraq.  Many families have lost sons and fathers in Iraq.  However, that does not make a full quarter of the world's population animals.  They're reacting to our invasion of their lands, and they're reacting in a way that is logical and somewhat justifiable, to the extent that killing a human being can be.

A nuclear strike would be an abomination.  It would most certainly bring the world's economy crashing down, as the Iranians would close the gulf.  It would also likely result in massive riots and impeachment of the President, if not the toppling of the US government.  The US's image would take generations to recover.  There is simply no excuse for a nuclear (or conventional, for that matter) strike when there is absolutely no substantial threat to US national security.

As for your suggestion that I go back to England, I say that I will not.  First of all, it is impossible for me to go "back" to England, as I have never been there and have no ancestors from there.  Secondly, I reject your notion that the US belongs only to Christian conservatives.  Even the screaming liberals and full-blown communists have a place in this nation, the Bill of Rights guarantees it. 

I have a right to say that I reject the notion that the Christian God is the only god, or even that there is a god.  I have the right to say that you're insane and sick for thinking that we should drop nuclear weapons and indiscriminately murder people in a foreign land simply because they worship a different god and resist a foreign power who invaded their neighbor under false pretenses.

That's the beautiful thing about America.   ;)

Offline billy_56081

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2008, 04:06:32 PM »
"If we leave the Arabs alone, the fire in their bellies will die out"

As they are killing one of your family or slitting your throat, you will know Ron White was right.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2008, 05:09:30 PM »
"If we leave the Arabs alone, the fire in their bellies will die out"

As they are killing one of your family or slitting your throat, you will know Ron White was right.

How are they going to kill my family or slit my throat?  How is our war in Iraq, or nuking Iran, going to prevent that from happening?

Offline ironglow

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2008, 02:04:29 AM »
  Kev;

   Thanks you for confirming my suspicions that you may just be one of the "hate America first' crowd. When you rage on and on about things "we" did wrong, I presume you are talking about "we" ..the US..        If not; who is "we" ?
      If it is the US and you disagree with the bulk of decisions made by the US, just call the US "they"..since that doesn't include you !
    A Correction:
    "We" gave the Jews their own state...   FACT: Truth is that on Nov 29, 1947, The UNITED NATIONS established the Arab and Jewish sectors in..paving the way for the MODERN state of Israel .
    After WW2, "we" came along and decided to meddle in the affairs of Arabs even more. FACT: Was it not more the British, French and the UNITED NATIONS that "meddled" ?

  FYI :  I doubt "we" would help Canada overcome some "Korean exiles" in an attempt at insurrection. Canada is a free country and will be able to handle such a job themselves;
      ..and since we are both free countries..compared to the Islamic  ones ..we won't join together screaming " Allah akbar" with blood in our eyes.

  You bemoan the fact that we provide aid to Israel; while saying there are a lot of other people around the world suffering who don't get a dollar in aid from "us".
   
   Please refer to the chart below ( if "us" means the US ).

   You seem to fault our leaders in the "oil thing". Whose interests are the elected leaders of our nation supposed to lok after..ours or the Arabs ?

   "If we leave the Arabs alone, the fire in their bellies will die out"  when will these fires die out ?..When NY City is a cinder, when Chicago is a nuclear wasteland or when Dallas-fort worth is depopulated by bio terrorism ?

   Kev; your arguments are so full of holes "we" could drive a fleet of Freightliners through them... BTW: Please explain who you are referring to with "we", "us" and "our"...



    For everyone reading; Please study the charts below, so you can see how much Kevthebassman is in error concerning "our" foreign aid !

   Please also note, that of all the nations listed as recipients of our aid; ISRAEL backs us far better than ALL the others....

 

   

   
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2008, 02:08:25 PM »
 TM;
   It wasn't I that complained that the US ( if "we" is the US) rarely helped other nations with foreign aid .  Please note that of all the nations that we support, Israel is the only one that truly supports us (see third chart).
   I think foreign aid should be tempered with how grateful they are..if they feed from our hand and then continually bite our hand..they should only be offered an EMPTY hand..
 
   Star of David on the dollar bill...If I fold them just right, I can see the two burning WTC towers  on both the $10 and $20 bills..does that make the engravers terrorists ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2008, 03:01:22 PM »
  Kev;

   Thanks you for confirming my suspicions that you may just be one of the "hate America first' crowd. When you rage on and on about things "we" did wrong, I presume you are talking about "we" ..the US..        If not; who is "we" ?
      If it is the US and you disagree with the bulk of decisions made by the US, just call the US "they"..since that doesn't include you !
Ad hominem.  You cannot fight back with logic and reason, so you resort to attacking me personally.

I love this nation.  I do not, however, give my blind allegiance to the government.  You confuse mindless obedience with patriotism.  If I hated America, I would leave.  But instead, I make my displeasure with our government known.  Here and in the voting booth.  I seek to steer the nation closer to my (and our Founding Father's) vision of how this nation should be run.


 
Quote
   A Correction:
    "We" gave the Jews their own state...   FACT: Truth is that on Nov 29, 1947, The UNITED NATIONS established the Arab and Jewish sectors in..paving the way for the MODERN state of Israel .
    After WW2, "we" came along and decided to meddle in the affairs of Arabs even more. FACT: Was it not more the British, French and the UNITED NATIONS that "meddled" ?
The United States played an integral in the formation of the United Nations.  The United Nations mandated the creation of Israel.  Fact is, that is only a small part of the larger picture.  The United States (WE) have been playing politics in the mid-east since the middle of the 20th century.  We propped up dictators, sold arms, sent troops, and walked all over these people for a half century and continue to do so to this day.  On 9-11-2001, it finally caught up to us in a MAJOR way.

The fact that I recognize the root causes of modern Islamic terrorism does not mean that I hate America, as you have stated.  These people did not just wake up one day and decide to hijack airplanes and ram them into the towers because they hated our democracy.

Quote
  FYI :  I doubt "we" would help Canada overcome some "Korean exiles" in an attempt at insurrection. Canada is a free country and will be able to handle such a job themselves;
Israel is a free country as well.  Seems to me that you have one hell of a double standard when it comes to the nations of the world.

 
Quote
You bemoan the fact that we provide aid to Israel; while saying there are a lot of other people around the world suffering who don't get a dollar in aid from "us".
   
   Please refer to the chart below ( if "us" means the US ).

You seem to fault our leaders in the "oil thing". Whose interests are the elected leaders of our nation supposed to lok after..ours or the Arabs ?

Who's interests are our elected leaders supposed to look after, ours or Israel's? 

Lets not forget, in Jan 1999, oil was at $8 a barrel.  It closed today at $108 a barrel.  Which begs the question, just who's interests are our leaders looking out for?  Ours, or big oil's?



   

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   "If we leave the Arabs alone, the fire in their bellies will die out"  when will these fires die out ?..When NY City is a cinder, when Chicago is a nuclear wasteland or when Dallas-fort worth is depopulated by bio terrorism ?
You're creating fantasy land situations.  1.  Pakistan already has the bomb, so you've already got Muslims with the bomb.  2.  No middle eastern nation has the technology to deliver a bomb to the US.  3.  Even if they did, (or if they were able to smuggle in a bomb somehow) they're not stupid enough to think that they could use the bomb without being turned into cinders.

 
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Kev; your arguments are so full of holes "we" could drive a fleet of Freightliners through them...
Too bad it doesn't seem like you can drive a clown car, much less a truck.

Quote
BTW: Please explain who you are referring to with "we", "us" and "our"...
In some instances, the United States.  In other cases, the west (the US and Europe) collectively.  If you cannot tell by the context of the sentence you should ask nicely and I'll specify.  Attacking my choice of words is quite childish.

Quote
Please also note, that of all the nations listed as recipients of our aid; ISRAEL backs us far better than ALL the others....
Well of course they do.  They're suckling off of Uncle Sam's teat.  They live a very nice lifestyle courtesy of the American taxpayer, plus our government bends over backwards for them.  Why would they do anything to change that?

Offline powderman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2008, 03:22:51 PM »
HMMMMM. I see tm has a brother. POWDERMAN.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2008, 04:02:09 PM »
"HMMMMM. I see tm has a brother. POWDERMAN."

Well Hitler had Gerbils.       
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2008, 04:10:32 PM »
"Much of the data is collected from UN and several international organizations, "


So TM7 are you now claiming that the UN is a valid orginization? I thought this was an orginization that is part of your silly "New World Order" conspiracy plot.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2008, 04:11:14 PM »
You criticize, yet offer no argument?  What is it you find fault with?  Or does people with a different viewpoint speaking their mind and refusing to be shouted down bother you?

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2008, 04:20:09 PM »
  Kev;

   Thanks you for confirming my suspicions that you may just be one of the "hate America first' crowd. When you rage on and on about things "we" did wrong, I presume you are talking about "we" ..the US..        If not; who is "we" ?
      If it is the US and you disagree with the bulk of decisions made by the US, just call the US "they"..since that doesn't include you !
Ad hominem.  You cannot fight back with logic and reason, so you resort to attacking me personally.

Quote
Quote
Kev; your arguments are so full of holes "we" could drive a fleet of Freightliners through them...
Too bad it doesn't seem like you can drive a clown car, much less a truck.

You give the man static for a personal attack, then attack him personally - in the same post?   ???

Rant on, but your credibility is already suspect.

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2008, 02:39:14 AM »
IG,,,no need to fold the dollar in any funny way as you suggested....just look above the eagle on the right.

I suppose the pyramid on the left indicates that King Tut is juicing domestic policy?

Quote
Viola.......



what does an alto violin have to do with this?

note to self:  figure out another way to arrange 13 stars.


Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2008, 04:09:30 AM »
Just trying to bring some humor into everyone's day.

Its like a mental shoulder massage.

Your much too tense.

Offline ironglow

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2008, 08:20:34 AM »
You criticize, yet offer no argument?  What is it you find fault with?  Or does people with a different viewpoint speaking their mind and refusing to be shouted down bother you?

   Kev;
   I am guessing that you were talking to me, right ? If so, it surely appears that you didn't read my post ! You made statements..I provided refutation..why are you so puzzled ?

   Again, who is "we" also "us" and "our" ?

   If perchance your "we" is the US..then I refuted your statement the "we" set up the modern state of Israel...the facts say otherwise..

  You bemoaned the idea that "we" (the US ?) provide so little foreign aid to so few countries..I demonstrated by chart, just how mistaken you were (facts are stubborn things..(TJ)

  I also provided the unsought benefit of showing you that of all the recipients, the Israelis are MOST LOYAL ally...I know it is tough to see our political bubbles burst and fade away..
  but we must take the good news along with the bad..

     AGAIN..who, according to your posts, are "we", "us" and "ours" ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline gypsyman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2008, 12:12:21 PM »
Don't believe this sordid affair in the mid-east started out in the last 100 years or so. Or when Israel became a country in '47. Seems I remember reading in one of my history books about the Crusade's taking place around 1000 years ago, and again 700 years ago, when the Muslims decided to take over the world with their religion. They get a hair across their butt side-ways, start some trouble, and away we go again. This time thou, their not just playing with swords and scimitars, it's nukes and bombs, and possibly killer virus's or bacterias. Don't think their going to jump back on their camel and ride back across the desert this time. Things are alot different now, than the last time they got uppity. Now it could get real serious.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline zombiewolf

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2008, 01:43:15 PM »
Don't believe this sordid affair in the mid-east started out in the last 100 years or so. Or when Israel became a country in '47. Seems I remember reading in one of my history books about the Crusade's taking place around 1000 years ago, and again 700 years ago, when the Muslims decided to take over the world with their religion. They get a hair across their butt side-ways, start some trouble, and away we go again. This time thou, their not just playing with swords and scimitars, it's nukes and bombs, and possibly killer virus's or bacterias. Don't think their going to jump back on their camel and ride back across the desert this time. Things are alot different now, than the last time they got uppity. Now it could get real serious.  gypsyman


The Christian Crusades
1095-1291

Since the time of Constantine, Christians had gone on pilgrimages to the Holy Land. Even though Moslems had ruled Jerusalem since 638, Christians were still allowed to visit the city. By the 11th century, however, the situation had changed. Just as the number and frequency of pilgrimages to Jerusalem was at new peaks, the Seljuk Turks took over control of Jerusalem and prevented pilgrimages.
The First Crusade

Pope Urban II (1088-1099, see art below) was responsible for assisting Emperor Alexus I (1081-1118) of Constantinople in launching the first crusade. He made one of the most influential speeches in the Middle Ages, calling on Christian princes in Europe to go on a crusade to rescue the Holy Land from the Turks. In the speech given at the Council of Clermont in France, on November 27, 1095, he combined the ideas of making a pilgrimage to the Holy Land with that of waging a holy war against infidels.1

Dr. E.L. Skip Knox gives a summary of the pope's speech, which has been recorded differently in various sources:
Pope Urban II- 11922 Bytes   

"The noble race of Franks must come to the aid their fellow Christians in the East. The infidel Turks are advancing into the heart of Eastern Christendom; Christians are being oppressed and attacked; churches and holy places are being defiled. Jerusalem is groaning under the Saracen yoke. The Holy Sepulchre is in Moslem hands and has been turned into a mosque. Pilgrims are harassed and even prevented from access to the Holy Land.

"The West must march to the defense of the East. All should go, rich and poor alike. The Franks must stop their internal wars and squabbles. Let them go instead against the infidel and fight a righteous war.

"God himself will lead them, for they will be doing His work. There will be absolution and remission of sins for all who die in the service of Christ. Here they are poor and miserable sinners; there they will be rich and happy. Let none hesitate; they must march next summer. God wills it!

"Deus vult! (God wills it) became the battle cry of the Crusader.

"The day after Urban's speech, the Council formally granted all the privileges and protections Urban had promised. The red cross was taken as the official sign of the pilgrims, and Bishop Adhemar of Le Puy was chosen as papal legate and the spiritual leader of the expedition."2

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view. Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:

    Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins.

The Jerusalem or Crusader's Cross Symbol - 925 Bytes

Some of the results of the first crusade were not expected. Alexus I thought that the Byzantine territories would be returned to him and the Eastern Empire, but instead the European conquerors established four independent Latin kingdoms. In addition, three military orders (Hospitallers, Templars, and Teutonic Knights) came into power. The stated purpose of these orders was to protect pilgrims and holy sites.

   The Jerusalem or Crusader's Cross was worn by Godfrey de Bouillon, the first ruler of the Jerusalem after it was taken from the Moslems. Usually the symbol has four small crosses between the arms. The five crosses symbolize the five wounds of the crucified Jesus. The Crusader's Cross can also be a single cross, as is shown in the art of St. Louis below.

Other Crusades

There were seven major Crusades. The era the Crusades the first began in 1095 with Pope Urban II's famous speech and the ended in 1291 when Acre, the last of the Latin holdings in Palestine, was lost. The major Crusades were:

St. Louis - click for a larger image about 48K

   1. the first, 1095-1099, called by Pope Urban II and led by Peter the Hermit, Walter the Penniless, Godfrey of Bouillon, Baldwin and Eustace of Flanders, and others (see also first crusade);
   2. the second, 1147-49, headed by King Louis VII who was enlisted by Bernard of Clairvaux, was a disastrous failure, including the loss of one of the four Latin Kingdoms, the Duchy of Edessa;
   3. the third, 1188-92, proclaimed by Pope Gregory VIII in the wake of the catastrophe of the second crusade, which conducted by Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, King Philip Augustus of France and King Richard "Coeur-de-Lion" of England;
   4. the fourth, during which Constantinople was sacked, 1202-1204 (see also fourth crusade);
   5. the fifth, which included the conquest of Damietta, 1217-1221;
   6. the sixth, in which Frederick II took part (1228-29); also Thibaud de Champagne and Richard of Cornwall (1239);
   7. the seventh, led by St. Louis (Louis IX of France), 1248-50; 3

 
What was the legacy of the Crusades? Williston Walker et. al. observes:


    Viewed in the light of their original purpose, the Crusades were failures. They made no permanent conquests of the Holy Land. They did not retard the advance of Islam. Far from aiding the Eastern Empire, they hastened its disintegration. They also revealed the continuing inability of Latin Christians to understand Greek Christians, and they hardened the schism between them. They fostered a harsh intolerance between Muslims and Christians, where before there had been a measure of mutual respect. They were marked, and marred, by a recrudescence of anti-Semitism....


The papacy gained the most from the Crusades. Its authority was greatly increased. The power of European kings also increased in that a number of barons who had given them trouble went to the East.4





Same crap,  different century.....

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2008, 02:37:54 PM »
You criticize, yet offer no argument?  What is it you find fault with?  Or does people with a different viewpoint speaking their mind and refusing to be shouted down bother you?

   Kev;
   I am guessing that you were talking to me, right ? If so, it surely appears that you didn't read my post ! You made statements..I provided refutation..why are you so puzzled ?

   Again, who is "we" also "us" and "our" ?

   If perchance your "we" is the US..then I refuted your statement the "we" set up the modern state of Israel...the facts say otherwise..

  You bemoaned the idea that "we" (the US ?) provide so little foreign aid to so few countries..I demonstrated by chart, just how mistaken you were (facts are stubborn things..(TJ)

  I also provided the unsought benefit of showing you that of all the recipients, the Israelis are MOST LOYAL ally...I know it is tough to see our political bubbles burst and fade away..
  but we must take the good news along with the bad..

     AGAIN..who, according to your posts, are "we", "us" and "ours" ?

The post you quote is for powderman and billy.  The one you are dodging is found above.  I've quoted it again for your convenience. 

  Kev;

   Thanks you for confirming my suspicions that you may just be one of the "hate America first' crowd. When you rage on and on about things "we" did wrong, I presume you are talking about "we" ..the US..        If not; who is "we" ?
      If it is the US and you disagree with the bulk of decisions made by the US, just call the US "they"..since that doesn't include you !
Ad hominem.  You cannot fight back with logic and reason, so you resort to attacking me personally.

I love this nation.  I do not, however, give my blind allegiance to the government.  You confuse mindless obedience with patriotism.  If I hated America, I would leave.  But instead, I make my displeasure with our government known.  Here and in the voting booth.  I seek to steer the nation closer to my (and our Founding Father's) vision of how this nation should be run.


 
Quote
   A Correction:
    "We" gave the Jews their own state...   FACT: Truth is that on Nov 29, 1947, The UNITED NATIONS established the Arab and Jewish sectors in..paving the way for the MODERN state of Israel .
    After WW2, "we" came along and decided to meddle in the affairs of Arabs even more. FACT: Was it not more the British, French and the UNITED NATIONS that "meddled" ?
The United States played an integral in the formation of the United Nations.  The United Nations mandated the creation of Israel.  Fact is, that is only a small part of the larger picture.  The United States (WE) have been playing politics in the mid-east since the middle of the 20th century.  We propped up dictators, sold arms, sent troops, and walked all over these people for a half century and continue to do so to this day.  On 9-11-2001, it finally caught up to us in a MAJOR way.

The fact that I recognize the root causes of modern Islamic terrorism does not mean that I hate America, as you have stated.  These people did not just wake up one day and decide to hijack airplanes and ram them into the towers because they hated our democracy.

Quote
  FYI :  I doubt "we" would help Canada overcome some "Korean exiles" in an attempt at insurrection. Canada is a free country and will be able to handle such a job themselves;
Israel is a free country as well.  Seems to me that you have one hell of a double standard when it comes to the nations of the world.

 
Quote
You bemoan the fact that we provide aid to Israel; while saying there are a lot of other people around the world suffering who don't get a dollar in aid from "us".
   
   Please refer to the chart below ( if "us" means the US ).

You seem to fault our leaders in the "oil thing". Whose interests are the elected leaders of our nation supposed to lok after..ours or the Arabs ?

Who's interests are our elected leaders supposed to look after, ours or Israel's? 

Lets not forget, in Jan 1999, oil was at $8 a barrel.  It closed today at $108 a barrel.  Which begs the question, just who's interests are our leaders looking out for?  Ours, or big oil's?



   

Quote
   "If we leave the Arabs alone, the fire in their bellies will die out"  when will these fires die out ?..When NY City is a cinder, when Chicago is a nuclear wasteland or when Dallas-fort worth is depopulated by bio terrorism ?
You're creating fantasy land situations.  1.  Pakistan already has the bomb, so you've already got Muslims with the bomb.  2.  No middle eastern nation has the technology to deliver a bomb to the US.  3.  Even if they did, (or if they were able to smuggle in a bomb somehow) they're not stupid enough to think that they could use the bomb without being turned into cinders.

 
Quote
Kev; your arguments are so full of holes "we" could drive a fleet of Freightliners through them...
Too bad it doesn't seem like you can drive a clown car, much less a truck.

Quote
BTW: Please explain who you are referring to with "we", "us" and "our"...
In some instances, the United States.  In other cases, the west (the US and Europe) collectively.  If you cannot tell by the context of the sentence you should ask nicely and I'll specify.  Attacking my choice of words is quite childish.

Quote
Please also note, that of all the nations listed as recipients of our aid; ISRAEL backs us far better than ALL the others....
Well of course they do.  They're suckling off of Uncle Sam's teat.  They live a very nice lifestyle courtesy of the American taxpayer, plus our government bends over backwards for them.  Why would they do anything to change that?

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2008, 02:40:38 PM »
Zombiewolf you had better watch out.  Pointing out instances where the Muslim animals were attacked and defended themselves is evidence of your hatred of America.   ::) ::)

Offline ironglow

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2008, 02:52:01 PM »
Kev;
  Your best arguments have been refuted..but somehow you "just don't get it"..so further discussion would only be superfluous..

   There are none so blind as those who WILL not see !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline zombiewolf

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2008, 02:55:48 PM »
Zombiewolf you had better watch out.  Pointing out instances where the Muslim animals were attacked and defended themselves is evidence of your hatred of America.   ::) ::)


I know... just sayin' ::)

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2008, 02:56:41 PM »
Kev;
  Your best arguments have been refuted..but somehow you "just don't get it"..so further discussion would only be superfluous..

   There are none so blind as those who WILL not see !

Which arguments are those?  Point them out to me, and where they have been refuted.  Perhaps you can help me to see the light?

Offline powderman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2008, 03:32:26 PM »
Kev;
  Your best arguments have been refuted..but somehow you "just don't get it"..so further discussion would only be superfluous..

   There are none so blind as those who WILL not see !

Which arguments are those?  Point them out to me, and where they have been refuted.  Perhaps you can help me to see the light?

You'll never see the light this side of Heaven, just like tm7. Sad. POWDERMAN.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2008, 03:42:04 PM »
Kevin, you are now formally invited to the Bar B que as the comic relief can you join us? TM7 has turned down my invite so we need someone to laugh at.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2008, 03:52:56 PM »
Kevin, you are now formally invited to the Bar B que as the comic relief can you join us? TM7 has turned down my invite so we need someone to laugh at.

Quote
Kev; your arguments are so full of holes "we" could drive a fleet of Freightliners through them...
Too bad it doesn't seem like you can drive a clown car, much less a truck.

Maybe Kev can drive the clown car since IG hasn't got a license??


Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2008, 05:24:29 PM »
You guys are classic.  You don't even have the courage to stand up and debate like ironglow, you can only manage a few funny (to you) observations.  Now it doesn't make a lick of difference to me what you do, but you guys look mighty foolish walking into an intellectual gunfight holding a pocketknife.

The core of the matter still stands, shining true like a beacon.  We have had our hands dirty in Arab affairs; we put despicable men into power and supported them as they made war on their neighbors and gave them the means to exterminate their own people for our own selfish purposes. 

The United Nations brought people from a foreign land and gave them Israel, settling them where others were already living.  Now the United States gives billions of dollars to the Israelis, even as the Israelis continue to displace Muslims from their homes.

And I'm still waiting for someone to take up the points made in this post. Any takers?

Offline ironglow

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2008, 01:12:02 AM »
  Kev;
  Perhaps I am the only one gullible enough to debate with what someone who has such "concrete" positions. Of course the definition of concrete is, " all mixed up and permanently set".  ::)
   Just an attempt at humor..

 
  Actually, I believe the others backed off  because rightly or wrongly, they perceived a firm anti-semitic mindset. ..And since we have dealt with those before, they
  probably figured..."whats the use ?".

     just my $.02
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2008, 02:41:35 AM »
Wow, so that's it, eh?

You know, I debate because I once held exactly the same positions as you.  You're accusation of antisemitism is hogwash.  You, on the other hand, seem have a deep-rooted hatred of Muslims.  I don't hold one group over the other, you do.

Just let me know if you would like to debate.  Debate takes effort, slinging accusations of antisemitism doesn't.

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2008, 02:45:49 AM »
You guys are classic.  You don't even have the courage to stand up and debate like ironglow, you can only manage a few funny (to you) observations.  Now it doesn't make a lick of difference to me what you do, but you guys look mighty foolish walking into an intellectual gunfight holding a pocketknife.

Classic?

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question why you ragged IG for a personal attack, than accused him of not even being able to drive a clown car.

You cannot have it both ways, well, by rights, if you want to be high and mighty about the facts being all important, then you cannot result to these gutter tactics, that I hold dear.

Your screaming for someone to "take up your points".  Hell, you presented your points.  If no one is debating you on them than assume that no one wants to because your right, its futile, they are all laughing, or they are trying to but your too closed minded to understand.

You call the hands dirty, others call them helping hands.  I'm not sure anyone can change your mind, and not sure that you can change anyone else's when you charge in both hypocritical and sanctimonious. 

When an argument boils down to the old "who was there in Jeruslelem first?" question, then its like factoring a number down to prime roots.  Just isn't productive going any further.

You seem a little upset that no one is taking you up on this one.  Sorry.

I'll admit, I lean a little right, but more often then not, if all I can contribute is wisecracks, its because the only argument I see to get involved with is a fool's folly.  All that some of us uneducated, close minded, neo-con, jew lovin', jack booted sheep have left to offer is humor.

Now, about the barbecue, my little girl is actually a little shy around clowns, so skip the clown car.

If we wait till next weekend, we can combine it with Passover.  Kosher pork on matzo!