Author Topic: Accuracy Woes (Read 1038 times)

HWooldridge · « **on:** July 14, 2003, 06:48:01 AM »

About 8-10 years ago, I purchased a Uberti Arms .54 cal Hawken replica and fired it only a few times informally. I recently decided to work up a reliable load but am having a very hard time getting any reasonable accuracy. The twist is 1-48 and I have tried both round balls and Maxi Slugs with charges from 40 to 90 grs of both FFg and FFFg powder in 10 gr increments. I have tried various patch thicknesses and various lubes but most groups (patterns?) are around 24 inches at 100 yds. I've had other muzzleloaders which were very accurate at 100 yds and more so I think this can be made to shoot if I hit the right combination. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance...Hollis

pendennis · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2003, 08:35:49 AM »

Hollis, if the twist is 1:48, it seems like it's probably a compromise so as to handle either patched ball, or maxi balls. A .54 caliber should have a slower twist (e.g. 1:70) for patched ball, and a faster twist (e.g. 1:32) for maxi balls.

Check your patches. Do they exhibit any burn-through, or other anomalies? Next, check the bore. Is there any rust?

If you haven't tried a "natural" lube, you may want to try this. 50% beeswax, 40% Crisco, 10% Canola oil. I use this with .020 cut pillow ticking, and have a good combination for my Lyman GPR .54, and my various .50's.

You didn't mention the powder, but you may want to try Swiss or Elephant, if you're now using GOEX. If not, switch to GOEX. My .50's, for the most part, like GOEX fffg, although they shoot OK with ffg. My .50 caliber Jonathon Browning and my Lyman .54 GPR both like GOEX ffg.

Are you cleaning between each shot? If so, try shooting four or five shots before running a single "spit" patch and a dry patch down the bore.

Also, since you didn't mention, I'm assuming you are shooting a caplock. If so, try standard CCI caps (not magnum). If you haven't done so, try putting a new nipple on. It's possible that the old one is burned out. That will certainly affect accuracy. The red ones, by Knight are great.

I can certainly commiserate with you. I spent the day at the range trying to figure out why my .50 cal Jonathon Browning Mountain Rifle wouldn't shoot tighter than about 8" at 50 yards. Until I changed to ffg, it was very frustrating.

I've tried all the foregoing at one time or the other. However, I believe the "problem" lies with the twist rate. Just one man's opinion, though.

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2003, 08:54:02 AM »

Buy some new FF powder (Goex/Swiss -- Pyrodex -- Triple Se7en)
Buy some 348 gr. Powerbelts & 310 gr. Buffalo Ballets
Throw in 100 grains of powder to start
Let us know the improvement you have

Virginia Yank · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2003, 09:52:28 AM »

I've found that putting a felt "Wonder Wad" between the powder and the patched ball helps the accuracy of my T/C Hawkin 50. You can buy them or make your own.

HWooldridge · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2003, 10:41:30 AM »

It is a caplock and I'm shooting new Goex. My homemade lube is 50% Crisco, 25% beeswax and 25% Murphy's Oil Soap. I use this on my cap and ball revolvers and it works fine for that. I only fired a few shots with FFFg - most were done with 2F. I typically don't clean until I can't get a patch down the bore. I have not tried the Wonder Wad trick but a local guy also recommended that to me so I'll give it a shot (pardon the bad pun). I am using a single Wonder Patch, which is .010 thick. It loads very easily down a clean barrel and I can shoot 8 to 10 shots without much trouble if the charge is kept below 60 grs or so. Maybe I need a thicker patch and use the Wonder Wad. I don't care about long strings but just want that first or second shot on target since this rifle is well suited for hunting. Thanks for the tips and I'll let you know if I have any success.

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2003, 01:40:06 PM »

H;

I use .010 patches in my .54 Lyman GPR. I used to have to hammer the patched balls down the bore, until I read an article by Ross Seyfried and went to a patch thickness I can easily load. If you use a good swaged or soft cast ball, it will obturate and you don't need a tight patch/ball combination.

My accuracy suggestions are little different than the others. I swab the bore between each shot. One spit patch and one dry patch and reload. I make sure my seating compression is as consistent as I can make it. Also, I've tried FFFg granulations in the .54 with ball loads with good success. It's a faster burn. In the weights you are going to use on a ball, you won't have a problem.

Sam Fadala likes to put a few sheets of hornets nesting material between his powder and patch ball. I have used a small amount of newsprint for the same purpose. I would be careful using that in an arrid or fire prone area while hunting. But at the range it is safe.

Now, you're a hunter right? Forget the groups! They're a waste of time. Shoot each shot as if it were the first shot from a cold barrel at a deer! That means you will have to take a little time and effort to clean the bore (not a total clean, but treat the bore almost as if you are going to put it away.)

When checking my first shot accuracy, I use a couple of fairly damp patches (not wet enough to dampen the chamber area) and I make sure the rifling is spic and span. Then I fire a couple of caps, pick the nipple vent and leaving the pick in the nipple, I reload! I remove the pick before capping. I closely approximate the conditions of the bore for the first shot at the range or the first shot in the field.

I put up a paper plate or some similar sized target at 50 yards and standing off hand, I shoot it! Boom! Dead deer. I'll do it at 100 as well if I'm feeling froggy. If your gun is shooting the first shot to point of aim, but falling apart after that, there may be a number of reasons, bot don't get too worked up about what you perceive as poor grouping. Work on first shot consistency and preparation, and accuracy will come along. Regards;

Dan C

pendennis · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2003, 01:51:27 PM »

Hollis, you may want to try a thicker patch. The .010 patches are the thinnest available, and you could be burning through them. While the patch does not seal the bore, a thicker patch will help grab the rifling better, and that translates to better accuracy. In my Lyman GPR .54 caliber, I use the .015" or .018" soaked in my homemade lube.

You also have a paradox at work here. The tighter the patch, the better the accuracy, within limits. However, if you're out in the woods, trying a follow-up shot when it's 8 degrees above zero, loading a tight patch may break your rod, and put you in a mell of a hess.

Good luck.

crow_feather · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2003, 09:14:24 AM »

I know that this a little late but I remember 20 years ago when I started out - the barrels were not as nice to begin with as they probably are now. We had to shoot quite a few rounds through the barrel to smooth out the rifiling before it would shoot good. you could tell by checking the patches to see if they were torn by the sharp rifleing. you did say that this was an old rifle.

A good lube is home made moose milk - the barrel dosen't need to be cleaned at all until you get home at the end of the day and the last ball goes down as easy as the first.

I agree with the patch going down easy and an over powder patch. I just use a regular dry patch in front of the lubed patch. My groups shrink by 25%.

make sure the hornet's nest is empty

c f

crow_feather · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2003, 09:24:14 AM »

I forgot - 70 grains of fff and a patched round ball shoot extremely well in a 54.

C F

HWooldridge · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2003, 05:27:30 AM »

Well, I went out Sunday afternoon and spent a couple of hours with the .54 trying to wring some accuracy from it. It had rained earlier in the day so the weather was cloudy and moist with the temperature around 80. I started at 25 yds, with 40 gr of FFF, a piece of T-shirt over the powder and a .530 ball in a .010 Wonder Patch. The first shot centered the bull as cleanly as anyone could want so I was pretty excited. I swabbed the barrel with one wet patch, then one dry one and went to 50 gr. This shot cut the first one so I kept repeating the process of cleaning between shots and increasing the powder charge. What I eventually noticed is that about 70 grs, the point of impact started moving right which I assume means the ball was overspun in the 1-48 twist. The T-shirt wad was blown thru with multiple holes so appears that was protecting the ball and patch. I am going to move out to 100 yds and perform the same series of tests to see if the ball spins off to the right (which is the problem I previously experienced). If the theory is correct, the issue then becomes not being able to hunt with any charge over 50 or 60 gr although an accurate shot with that much powder is still better than a miss with 90 gr.

The Cast Bullet Kid · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2003, 02:59:41 PM »

Hi
I had the same problem with my .40cal cap gun.
Blown patches galore with top end loads. Fixed with a tighter patch to prevent the blow by of the burn.
Have a look at www.bpaccuracy.com for advice from Dutch Shoultz then send him $15.00 for the best BP tips money can buy.
The secret with patches is not so much the thickness of the fabric measured in the traditional sense but what it measures under full compression.
For lube I am sold on moose milk and I dry the bore AFTER I load as excess lube blows accuracy too.
cheers
TCBK.