Blackhorn 209 Is Now Available

[Busta]

I called both Midway and Western. According to Western, Midway is the only place you can order it through today, tomorrow may be different. I wanted to know how many containers are in a case, it is 10/10 oz containers according to Western. Midway does not stock it, it drop ships from Western. They will be shipping it out next week.

You can order up to 48 pounds on the flat rate shipping @ $9.99.
HAZ-MAT (Hazardous Material) charge for an order is $20.00
Western Uses UPS and FED-EX.

So you are going to pay $29.99 for each 10 oz container plus the HAZ-MAT and flat rate shipping charge of $29.99 total on any order up to 48 pounds.

I have been in contact with every major and several minor sporting goods stores in MI. In every case they had never even heard of Blackhorn 209, Western said they had no "standing orders" from Michigan so I just took the plunge and bought a case. Of course it has to be ordered through Midway at a per container price, Western does not sell direct and Midway doesn't sell by the case.

Sherry at Western was very helpful, extremely nice, and was able to answer all my questions. The case (10 / 10 oz containers) weight for shipping purposes is just the weight of the powder 6.25 pounds, just in case someone has deep enough pockets to want to take them up on their 48 pound shipping @ $9.99 and maximize the $20.00 HAZ-MAT fee.

I wanted all the same Lot #, so I should be all set for a couple weeks.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=820615

It is also going to be available in a 3 oz container, but HAZ-MAT and shipping would kill you.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=477146

[burntmuch]

So we ll be getting range reports soon?  I hope so JSG got me real disapointed at the range this morning

[wgr]

at 29.99 for 10 oz.  out of my reach cleaning cant be that bad

[Semisane]

I don't think I'll be shelling out the dough for it.  I'm buying a 25 lb. bag of GOEX FFFg for $9.00 a lb.  Guess I'll just stick to that for a while.

[hogrdr]

I'll try it when I can pick up at Sportsman Warehouse to avoid shipping they expect it this month. If it is all they claim it is I feel worth the money for a hunting powder. Would be nice to be able to shoot a coyote or two and not have to worry about cleaning or pushing my guts out to load past crud ring. If I can get a consistant accurate load something I could not get with JSG. Heck it's only money if not spent on powder I would probably buy another barrel for my Encore then another scope base rings and on and on. It will save me money in the long run!

[oneshotonekill]

I wonder what the density of that powder is like.  A 10oz container is approx. 4375 grains by weight, depending on density you could be looking at 60-80 grains weight to 100gr volume.  That would mean at 100gr volume loads you would wind up with something like 55-70 shots per container.  At $30per container that isn't cheap.  I see Midway already dropped the 3oz containers.  I don't blame them, most folks probably shoot 3oz in one range trip.  At $14 plus haz mat $20 and Shipping $10 that is damn expensive powder.  I hope the price drops after the powder is more widely distributed.  It sounds like a great powder but too pricey for me to play with.  For that kind of money I'll buy a savage or a smokeless barrel for my encore and go to smokeless powder.

[Busta]

That is the problem with Michigan, smokeless isn't legal or I would already have a smokeless ML. No doubt it is cheaper than Blackhorn, but Backhorn is a legal black powder substitute. There has been a bill in the MI House, HB 4554 that would allow smokeless where Black Powder can be used for over a year now that is dead in the water, so this is the expensive alternative. We have to use shotguns or muzzleloaders in Southern Michigan, this powder is way cheaper than the saboted slugs, some of those are $20+ for a box of 5. That is like throwing a $5 bill on the ground every time you pull the trigger. This powder is still less expensive than the magnum pellet loads, yet people keep buying those.

This powder will allow me to shoot nearly every day, without having to schedule in the cleaning time every day. It will also allow me to use the same ML rifle for all the seasons. I will also be using it for woodchucks, yotes and deer. I have a sniper set-up for long range shooting. I have a 100 yard range behind my barn a mere 75 steps from my back door that will see much more use than it ever has. I can shoot a few rounds almost daily, then clean on the weekend or whenever, without having to schedule the cleaning time in every day as well.

You guys are fortunate that can use a smokeless muzzleloader and all the cheaper smokless powder.

[30-06man]

Busta I have contacted Major retailers in the SC, GA, and NC area and very few know what I am talking about, It looks like it may be a while until I get some with the shipping fee's.

[vanbuzen9]

Busta,

Thanks for the info, as I am a southern michigan deer hunter also. Please post results as soon as you collect data, what are you shooting? I will will be shooting a 26" encore.  I personally think the little extra money this stuff costs is offset by the non-corrosive properties alone!  I guess I will have to wait for local stores to start stocking it, as I have no intention of paying the extra 20.00 hazmat fee.  It shouldn't be to long before large retailers such as cabelas and g-mountain will start carrying it. I'm not worried, I have all summer and all fall to test it before ML season starts!

good luck,
vanbuzen9

[Busta]

My case of B209 showed up yesterday. Rain and snow forecast for the weekend. Will test as soon as weather and work permits.
 
I measured 36 100 grain volume charges using the T/C brass and the T/C U-View. All charges weighed on a beam scale.

First the T/C brass measure with thrown 100 grain volume charges scraped level. The 12 weights are as follows.

68.4
69.3
69.3
69.9
68.7
69.0
69.7
68.7
68.7
67.8
68.0
69.1

Average is 68.88, with an extreme spread (bold) of 2.1 grain weight.



Thrown 100 grain volume charges using T/C U-View, scraped level.

68.5
69.5
68.2
68.5
67.6
67.8
67.8
68.0
67.4
68.3
68.1
67.3

Average is 68.08, with an extreme spread (bold)of 2.2 grains weight.


T/C brass measure, 100 grain volume charges tapped (10 times), settled, and scraped level. These were a little more accurate, but still varied more than expected.

70.2
70.1
70.1
70.3
69.4
69.7
69.6
69.3
69.5
70.4
69.5
70.4

Average is 69.87, with an extreme spread (bold) of 1.1 grains weight.

I never weighed the same powder twice, all measurements were taken, one after the other just like if you were shooting the previous charge. After all readings were taken, the powder was returned to it's container.

For me, I will be tapping and settling the charges if using a powder measure, or weighing and placing charges in vials.

These are the powder measures that I used.

[sabotloader]

Busta

You realize BH-209 is a smokeless progressive burning powder....

State rules is one reason that Western will not release to the general public what it is but when the state comes calling - they will have to tell them. At some point they will also have to release a MSDS sheet as required by the government.

[Busta]

Busta

You realize BH-209 is a smokeless progressive burning powder....

State rules is one reason that Western will not release to the general public what it is but when the state comes calling - they will have to tell them. At some point they will also have to release a MSDS sheet as required by the government.

I shot some today, it smokes, is called a muzzleloading propellant, all that matters in my State.

[coop2564]

Looking forward to your shooting results!

[Keith Lewis]

Busta

You realize BH-209 is a smokeless progressive burning powder....

State rules is one reason that Western will not release to the general public what it is but when the state comes calling - they will have to tell them. At some point they will also have to release a MSDS sheet as required by the government.

Someone listed that Western said it is not nitrocellulous based. I hope that is true because Arizona states that nitrocellulous powders are not allowed although I cannot find that statement in the game laws that are available although I have seen that specific statement in a list of rules in one of the Blackpowder magazines. I think as long as they advertise it as a synthetic black powder it will be OK as I have never seen a game management person with a full chemistry lab with him.

[NimrodRx]

Busta

You realize BH-209 is a smokeless progressive burning powder....

State rules is one reason that Western will not release to the general public what it is but when the state comes calling - they will have to tell them. At some point they will also have to release a MSDS sheet as required by the government.

Sabotloader, can you pleas share with me how you came to this conclusion, specificly about it being smokeless?  I'm not disagreeing, just would like for you to substantiate such a claim.

Thanks.

[NimrodRx]

Nothing?

[30-06man]

Local dealers should be starting to get some in a month. I can't wait to try it.

[Keith Lewis]

Just checked my local Sportsmans Warehouse and they got two cans yesterday. I got one of them today. Unfortunately I can't get to the range until next week. Can hardly wait to try it in my KRB7. I have not shot it with anything yet. Plan on only using BH209 in that rifle.

[oneshotonekill]

Busta

You realize BH-209 is a smokeless progressive burning powder....

State rules is one reason that Western will not release to the general public what it is but when the state comes calling - they will have to tell them. At some point they will also have to release a MSDS sheet as required by the government.

Sabotloader, can you pleas share with me how you came to this conclusion, specificly about it being smokeless?  I'm not disagreeing, just would like for you to substantiate such a claim.

Thanks.

Well take this for what its worth because I can not verify it, but I was told from a pretty reliable source that Blackhorn-209 is in fact a smokeless powder that goes through a coating process.  The coating that is applied is what creates the "smoke" when burned.  This coating also makes ignition more difficult which is why you have to use 209 primers.  I don't know how smokeless vs smoking powder is actually defined or if the coating applied to produce smoke would change the classification but it sounds like it starts off as smokeless powder.  I've also seen that western powder has been secretive about this powder.  I can understand them wanting to keep the formula away from other manufactures to keep competition out of the market but I would suspect it is more likely because the powder may wind up being classified as smokeless once all the info is out.

[NimrodRx]

Thanks OSOK.

In general, I agree with your assesment of BH209.

However, I do not believe that it will ever be classified as "smokeless."  Think about it, how in the world would that ever be policed?  You can't.  Are COs going to take chemistry sets into the field? 

What I think is more likely to happen is that states will be forced to examine the BP Sub vs smokeless laws.  What really is a BP Sub anyway???  You'll never convince me that there isn't ANY nitro in T7.   

The fact is that I can do anything with T7 that I can do with BH209 and darned near anything that I do with smokeless.  The difference is that BH209 and smokeless do it with a lot less recoil, and they do it A LOT cleaner. 

My hope is that this paves the way for legalization of smokeless MLing in the remaining states.