Confusing data for the 45-70

[Varmint Hunter]

As I prepared to load some 45-70's I reviewed several reloading manuals.

In the Hornady manual they list 3 levels with the Marlin 1895 in the second level, and the Ruger #1 in the third level.
In the Hodgdon manual they list the Marlin 1895 and the Ruger #1 in the same level.

The heaviest loads listed in the Hornady manual were actually MUCH lighter than the starting loads in the Hodgdon manual.

I know - guns vary, components vary and all the usual explanations as to why data rarely is the same from one book to another. However, the recommended charges for the same rifle are so far apart that components could not account for it and these two sources look like they are suppling data for two different cartridges. Very odd.

[Graybeard]

SAAMI sets the standards for cartridges both dimensional standards and pressure standards. Due to all the older black powder era firearms so chambered the SAAMI standards for the .45-70 is quite low. There is no alternate or secondary standard from SAAMI for the Marlin or other level guns nor for the Ruger. So folks who publish loading manuals have set arbitrary standards of their own which they assign to those two rifles and some also mention the TC Contender as well.

I think the Marlin or mid level is usually set at about 28,000 to 32,000 CUP or in some cases PSI. Since Marlin has chambered the 336/1895 action for the .450 Marlin now which operates at much higher pressures than that I guess some now consider it OK to load the .45-70 to that level as well. The logic of that seems sound enough on the face of it but if you own other weaker firearms and get that ammo mixed up and accidentally fire such a round in a firearm made to handle only BP level pressures you've just messed up your firearm and maybe yourself.

The Marlin and the Contender are neither as strong as the Ruger #1 and really (in my opinion) should not be used with Ruger level loads. To do so is both punishing to the shoulder and the gun.

[EsoxLucius]

Current Hodgdon reloading data has 45-70 loads for "Lever Actions" and 45-70 loads for what are termed "Modern Rifles".  "Lever Actions" loads are for the Marlin 1895 45-70 and "Modern Rifles" loads are for the Ruger #1.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

The problem with the differing loads for the 45-70 has been prevalent for at least 36 years.  With the wide variety of 45-70 firearms in circulation load publishers have had to develop different load data suitable for each type or class of firearm.  In addition, even within these classes there have been different levels sources have been comfortable publishing based on advise of their legal staff.  While Hornady states that their Marlin 1895 45-70 loads do not exceed 40,000 CUP, they do not provide information that these loads actually approach that level either.  It would seem that most don't when the Hornady loads are compared to the pressure tested and documented pressures of the Hodgdon loads.

[NickSS]

I have been loading the 45-70 for over 40 years and can say without a doubt that it is very versatile cartridge that is capable of being loaded very light round ball loads to very heavy loads.  However,  I have found that unless you really like power shooting heavy loads in a light rifle such as a Marlin is punishing to the shooter.  Standard black powder velocity loads in the 1100 to 1350 feet per second range will cleanly kill any game in North America without punishing the shooter too badly.  I have loaded loads that drove a 400 gr JSP slug at 2000 fps in a bolt action rifle I built and it kicked like a 458 Win Mag I had in a heavier rifle.  So if I want flatter trajectory for hunting I load 300 gr bullets at around 1500 fps and they work just fine out to 200 yards or so and do not beat you up too badly.  Actually my favorite load for deer and elk is a 330 gr lead hollow point loaded with 70 gr of FFG black powder.  This gives me about 1450 fps in my 28 inch barreled sharps rifle and kills deer and elk cleanly.  What more could you ask for???

[Cecil]

Has any one shot the starting loads for h4198 300 gr bullet Hodgdon manual in a Marlin 95? They show to be way over max in any other manual I have found.

[EsoxLucius]

Has any one shot the starting loads for h4198 300 gr bullet Hodgdon manual in a Marlin 95? They show to be way over max in any other manual I have found.

I've been shooting 55 grains of H4198 with various 300 grains hollow point bullets in my Marlin 1895 45-70 for about 10 years now.  Works good and my rifle is just fine.

[Cecil]

 EsoxLucius thanks for the reply, I loaded 300 gr Hornaday hollow points up last night using 55 gr H4198 and after reading other data in loading manuals I was about ready to disassemble the loads