Age requirement?

[Moss88hunter]

I live in TN and I am looking at getting a revolver (haven't decided what yet). I am only 19 and so my dad is getting it for me. My question is if I am hunting by myself on my land can I legally carry it?

Evan

[Mikey]

Evan:  You had best check with your state licensing authorities, those that issue hunting licenses and those that oversee handgun licensing in your state.  You may be old enough to hunt, at 19 but possibly not old enough to own or posses a handgun.  Hunting on your own land, privatge family owned lands or private lands does not exemplify you from violating laws if Tennessee requires you to be 21 to own or posses a handgun. 

It may be perfectly legal if the hunt you are involved in is supervised by adults and the adult who owns the pistol is immediately available (like right next to you or right behind you) to take possession of the handgun in the event of being questioned by the authorities but to go out and about by yourself means you are breaking the law and at 19 you can be held accountable, and so can your father for making what is known as a 'straw purchase' and for allowing you to be in possession of that handgun.  Please do not forget the pistol would be registered to your father, making it his responsibility not yours and until you are legally old enough to own a handgun the responsibility for that handgun will remain his. 

A guided or properly supervised hunt on private lands may be acceptable or allowable under Tennessee state laws but being underage and in possession of a handgun that doesn't belong to you could cost you the ability to ever legally own a handgun.  Check with your licensing authorities.  Mikey.

[kennisondan]

My legal opinion is :
mikey is right.
dk

[Moss88hunter]

Yea I know that this is a very fine line. The only thing that is mentioned in the hunting regulations is that you cannot posses a handgun while hunting if you are under 18. I don't want to do anything illegally that could cause me to lose my right to own or carry in the future. That is what I was trying to find out.

Evan

[David Carey]

This from the ATF website.

B. UNLICENSED PERSONS

(B14) May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?

Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting. "

Dave

[Moss88hunter]

Thanks David that is what I needed to know. I don't know why I didn't look there.

Evan

[Mikey]

Evan - you are not getting the full picture here.  David Carey cited you a federal regulation - you have no idea how that is either applied or interpreted at the state level - it may cite only a minimal requirement which is allowed 'revision' at the local level.  In addition you are the one who has interpreted a state regulation, not a state official with the responsibility to do so and even if I knew you I would still fault your interpretation (where is your legal background) as possibly invalid until validated by the state. 

There is something here that is not quite sinking in son - they won't let you buy a handgun in Tn until you are 21 (that should make you ask or think 'why 21'??), yet you accept language from both state hunting regulations as well as that from a federal regulation, and all without valid interpretation from the proper authorities.  People here on Graybeard are not proper authorities unless they identify themselves as so - even if someone says they are a lawyer and that 'such and such' is correct, unless they are willing to defend you in court their words aren't worth the effort it takes to type them out.

I think it would be absolutely wonderful if you found you were 100% correct and could do whatever you dang well please but I personally think you are cruising for some possible jail time and loss of the legal ability to own a handgun if you get caught screwing up and carrying that handgun when you aren't legally allowed to.  And yet nobody has mentioned the legal problems your father could face if you get caught with an illegal handgun - oh yeah kid, it's illegal.  It ain't yours, even though your father may have legally purchased it, because you aren't old enough to legally own it.  And if your father were ever to admit to a 'straw purchase' they would probably haul him off in cuffs right in front of you and the rest of the family.  Open your eyes Evan!

I said it before - this would be a 'straw purchase' that people (your father) go to jail for.  Haven't you read of nyc mayor bloomberg's efforts to get southern guns shop owners to illegally sell handguns (straw purchase) when the buyer has already stated the gun is for someone else?  Kid, you may or may not go to jail for this if you get caught but your father sure could face that possibility.  Open your eyes!

I don't know Evan - you can certainly read well enough to apply your own, very narrow, interpretation of both state and federal law, which is a real problem here.  I might buy your arguments if you were a law school graduate with 10 yrs practice in federal law, but you are not - you are 19 years old and not legally old enough to own a handgun in Tn, and you never ask why - think about it kid..................

I almost wonder if this is all really about hunting with a handgun or if you this is just about your wanting to own one.  Maybe you're the kind of guy who just gets off wanting one and you've suckered your father into buying one for you.  This is a judgement call that needs to be made and you  aren't the one who should make it.

I don't know what Tennessee lawyers are like but I would not hesitate to drop the dime to get a proper legal interpretation rather than to bet the whole farm on what you think is right. 

Just like Graybeard here, I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice, except to get proper legal advice and keep your butt as well as your father's butt outta jail.  Hear me talkin' kid.  Mikey.

[Graybeard]

Listen to Mikey here. You have both federal and STATE law to be concerned with. Most likely if you are not old enough to legally buy a gun in your state you are not old enough to legally carry it while hunting on your own. You might be OK with your parent with you or you might not depending on state law. Hunting regulations are not the ONLY thing you must be sure you are legal on especially as related to handguns. Make darn sure by checking with the proper authorities in your state prior to doing it. Like Mikey says if you get caught and it's not legal you'll lose your rights to own guns for life and likely do some jail time and if you do so likely will your dad for buying it for you.

I do not know the correct answer for you but find out from your proper state officials BEFORE carrying it.

[bull]

Check with the local autorities. I don't know exacly what the laws are in Tenn., but here in Michigan you may legally purchase a handgun at the age of 18, if purchased from an individual. To purchase from a licensed dealer you must be 21. Seems kind of backwards to me, but thats the law. And here you may legally hunt solo with a handgun at the age of 18. Usually the laws of purchase are not related to the hunting regs. Different people writing the rules. 

Good luck

[David Carey]

Mikey, I agree with you,

Moss88 needs to have as much information he can when he goes to talk to the local officials.

Dave

[Moss88hunter]

I am not trying to get myself or my dad in any type of trouble. I looked at this the same way as I did when I was 12 and my dad bought me a .22 rifle. I am not someone who gets off on wanting one and have not suckered anyone into anything. The only reason that I want the gun is to try a new and different type of hunting and target shooting. I am trying to find out legally where I am at, state law and federal law only mention under 18. They don't say anything about 18-21. I am in school to become an LEO so I can't afford any marks on my record. I am not trying to get around the law or break it I am just trying see if anyone knew legally what I could or couldn't do. I am in school and can't talk to the local pd until I go home. Thanks for the information

[David Carey]

A purchase as a gift is not considered a straw purchase under US federal law, as long as the recipient is not prohibited from possessing the firearm.

All states I am sure have different laws on how the gift transaction is to be handled.

Here is what I found on Tennessee

DIVISION OF TENNESSEE INSTANT CHECK SYSTEM PROGRAM
Rule 1395-1-3-.02

 (30) Straw Purchase - A purchase or transfer of a firearm made by an individual who is not obtaining the
firearm for himself/ herself or as a gift but rather for an individual who is disqualified from receiving
or possessing a firearm.

from tennessee.gov/sos/rules/1395/1395-01-03.pdf

"Disqualified" in Tennessee might be an age limit as well as the other reasons like being a felon.

Here is a copy of Maryland's

Can the transfer of a regulated firearm be conducted between two family members?
Yes, this type of transaction is considered a gift. The law stipulates, if the regulated firearm is a gift to the purchaser’s, spouse, parent, grandparent, grandchild, sibling, or child, the recipient shall:
(1) Complete an application to purchase or transfer a regulated firearm; and
(2) Forward the application to the Secretary of the State Police within 5 days after receipt of the regulated firearm.

from http://mdgunsafety.com/mspfaq.htm

Of course like others I am not a lawyer and you should do your own research for your specific needs.

Dave

[Mikey]

David - thank you very much for the correct definition of a 'straw purchase', that really helps clarify things and reduce some of the concern with Evan's initial ideas. 

Evan - I would never discourage a younger shooter from trying new and different types of hunting and target shooting, especially with handguns and with responsibility.  I hope you can get the correct information, make it legal and make a good selection for your first choice in handguns.  I encourage you to get into the sport and to do it legally.  I firmly believe you can enjoy the sport a lot more when everything is totally above boards and you don't have to worry about breaking laws.  Good luck, and let us know what sort of handgun you're thinking of.  Mikey. 

[kennisondan]

evan : I went onto the regulations site... it does appear to me that you are ok if you are over eighteen, as the law provides that : 1. persons under eighteen are prohibited from hunting with a handgun....
the other rules seem to be limited to centerfire pistols and rifles for the purpose of deer bear and boar...
Just to be sure, call the local enforcement wardens... in the very area that you will deer hunt in with a pistol (hopefully) see what they would do if you are hunting with a pistol and they encounter you... that is worth more than feeling you are right and can win in litigation ( not really a good thing )  ..
Next I would be sure that I checked with the local and state police enforcement guys who will be in your area for their answers to the same question.. once again it is not good enough to eventually be proved right ( like after a lot of lapsed time and lost money and a ruined season, etc. being proven right is a relative pleasure and not all it is cracked up to be. )
Re Read the regulations, every part of them so there is nothing hidden or lurking there, ask the actual enforcement officers, and get an opinion from the local office for regulation of hunting and illegal weapons.. once you have done all of that .. be sure you are in compliance with the local and federal laws for coming into possession of the arm itself, does the gift have to be recorded, where, etc.
--if you cover your  legal usage under the game laws; legal aquisition under the state and federal laws; legal possession under the state and federal laws; Legal transport from and to the hunting areas specific to the areas passed through and the rules and law on transporting a pistol alone and where it will be trnasported and how it must be transorted...comply with the training and licensure to hunt big game in general; and cover the rule and regulation of the area you will hunt on cause some places are private - some state owned and you have to be sure the rules are not different on one versus the other....
remember we want you compliant and safe.. then we want you in the woods if that is where you want to be...
there are game laws, transport laws, aquisition laws, possession laws, firearm requirements and prohibited firearms laws, and there are the laws that the locals think are the laws... I would try to be in complete compliance so as not to worry and be able to hunt and shoot without threat to my own or my father's rights and freedoms...
I hope this does help... I cannot give you a flat out opinion, you and your dad need to follow the advice and just know for your self...
do appreciate : no one here does not want another smiling safe law abiding enthusiast out there to support our natural rights to keep and bear arms.. and to hunt... we would just feel bad if you got busted...
dk... (this is not a legal opinion... just and opinion) .. 

[Moss88hunter]

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm sorry if I came off as trying to break or get around the law, that is the last thing I want to do. I appreciate your concerns for me staying out of trouble. I will let y'all know how things work out and what pistol I decide on.

Evan

[Tom W.]

Evan... you have access to a computer. Contact the DNR in your state, and the Local Law Enforcement in your town. They will answer your e-mails.

[kennisondan]

Hey Evan : I would greatly appreciate it if you would get it all checked out and tell what you are going to use and keep us informed as to your adventures and progress... I am sure you will find out good things and the right way to do it ... and take this as a good learning experience.. as an attorney I find folks who find one answer that suits them then they become my job... check out every possible source of control, regulation and without compliance : trouble...
I hope I covered all the possible folks to check with.. that is what I did when I wanted to be sure I could or could not float in a Kayak and float hunt for deer with my pistol from it.. then whether I could attach a rope to the bank from it in case I needed to back up a bit after floating past a target...
I thought it prudent to check the offices and the officers who would be making the feild decisions, as well.
just my two cents..
I hope it turns out like you want it and you can report safe, productive exciting new experiences of a burgeoning handgun hunter... we welcome you to the fraternity... set a good example for other younger folks and share what you learn and experience....
dk

[Mohawk]

   My advice. Wait until you are 21. Even in technicality proving you were right is still a large attorney retainer. Laws are so overlapping on that subject and it is best to wait.
  Once you are 21 your age is outright legal....... For instance, in Texas, it is legal to buy, and have him/her consume, an alcoholic beverage within the presence of the parent eventhough the consumer of the beverage is a minor. Yet, if the minor were to buy alcohol it would be a crime. If a person walks in to a gun store and buys .357 Mag ammo the clerk will often ask is this for a handgun or a rifle. If you are under 21 and say "handgun", it will be a no sale. If the person between the age of 18 and 21 answer rifle, you may purchase the ammo. Like I said. Just wait to be on the safe side. It is less than two years for you. Don't risk the burden


Mohawk.