Author Topic: The coming food catastrophe  (Read 5559 times)

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Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2008, 04:39:06 PM »
beemanbeme, your lack of comprehension is only overshadowed by your narrow ignorant point of view. i am neither blaming the "white fat Americans" or contemplating a communist revolution. how much DO you weigh? i'm simply stating that basic human greed has overcome the natural world order by which the necessities of life are usually provided. that this greed now stands in the way of common people actually owning land and/or being able to feed themselves on that ground. it's universal. not just north americans. the problem is that people have in fact given up their land and the responsibility for producing their own food in many cases. chasing an easier life with toys and leisure. all over the world. some good authors can explain it far better than me. guys with roots in the land. who live/study the amish/simple way of life
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Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2008, 04:53:47 PM »
and as far as free food being shipped to poor nations, there is more than one way to get payed for "free gifts". can you say strings attached? there are parts of africa that were under cultivation 10 000 yrs ago. but people were forced off their land by imperialism. and they will never get it back. corporate imperialism continues. go buy a farm and find out
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Offline deltecs

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2008, 05:12:42 PM »
beemanbeme, your lack of comprehension is only overshadowed by your narrow ignorant point of view. i am neither blaming the "white fat Americans" or contemplating a communist revolution. how much DO you weigh? i'm simply stating that basic human greed has overcome the natural world order by which the necessities of life are usually provided. that this greed now stands in the way of common people actually owning land and/or being able to feed themselves on that ground. it's universal. not just north americans. the problem is that people have in fact given up their land and the responsibility for producing their own food in many cases. chasing an easier life with toys and leisure. all over the world. some good authors can explain it far better than me. guys with roots in the land. who live/study the amish/simple way of life

I think some of this comment needs clarification.  I grew up around the Amish and let me tell you that no "natural world order by which the necessities of life are usually provided" applies to them.  They work hard to obtain the results of their labor and take advantage of opportunities presented them.  Their farms are extremely well maintained, children disciplined and well mannered, adherence to faith, and do not accept gifts or welfare and financially independent.  Agreed that this is a simple way of life as it suits them.  The greed that stands in the way of common people is no less than the greed of those land owners, who have sold their farms for this self same leisure enjoyed throughout the world.  I do not farm.  I do harvest fish mother nature has abundance of.  I've invested several hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy myself a job and expect a reasonable return on this investment.  But it is not provided.  I must work at it and continue to invest in this endeavor, to be succussful.  By the way, do you live in a home without year round running water and heat with wood?  I do, have for over 28 years, and have the available assets to live almost anywhere in the Nation without debt.  I chose my life, others can and do too.  If they chose to be irresponsible, have more children, and not take the time or effort to be financially independent, those are the ignorant ones, who use emotion instead of logic.  Rememer too, it is their choice.  And the reason communism failed, was due to man's nature to covet material things and make life easier.  It is man's natural greed that is the motivation for man's greatest inventions. 
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2008, 06:35:02 PM »
This is why I believe there is going to be a shortage. You've got diesel fuel topping $4 a gallon. Some fertilizer's are made from crude. All food is shipped by truck. How much more are the farmers going to have to charge for a bushel of wheat,corn, beans,etc. Milk has gone up, beef will definitely go up. First year in history, that this country had to import wheat. Check out the local supermarket, how many of the fruits and vegetable's are imported from foreign country's. And our American dollar is worth less and less all the time. Just went to the supermarket today. Banana's that use to cost around .33 to .35/lb. are now .50/lb. Sign over the fruit, RISING COSTS DUE TO ADVERSE WEATHER CONDITIONS, AND WORLD MARKETS. Maybe Deltecs is right, we might not have a ''food shortage'' so to speak. We'll have a money shortage. Food might just be there, we just will not have the cash to afford to buy it.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Chilachuck

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2008, 03:54:23 AM »
351 power, reread your own posts. You were saying that the US is most at fault.

That is an incredibly arrogant statement, if you are in the US, and certainly demeans and dehumanizes everyone outside the US. They are human, have their own lives to lead, their own mistakes to make, and their own crimes to commit.

The US does not go into a country and say, "You are going to play cops and robbers, and we are going to decide who is which."

Offline ironglow

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2008, 05:37:13 AM »
351;
     
  We are not interested in "Marxism 101"...and to your statement that some places in Africa have been cultivated for 10,000 years (a suspect statement) and "imperialism"
  has them starving now, you accomplished just one thing.  You made my coffee come out my nose, as I laughed so hard at such a ridiculous idea.
     
 ,  FYI: Imperialism is not good in itself, but it did not cause people to starve.  Back when Zambia was Northern Rhodesia and Zimbabwe was Southern Rhodesia, the people
   were not living "high on the hog"..but they were not starving.  Uganda under colonialism wasn't necessarily a picnic, but starving..no..Later Idi Amin Dada surely wasn't starving,
  there were found human corpses in his food freezers after he fled to his Muslim brothers in the  mideast. Today, Christians are being hunted down and either killed or enslaved.
   Rwanda, before it"s "liberation" was not a place where half the population was running around chopping up the other half with machetes..
   Undeniably, much of the tumult, murder, slavery and terror has been brought on by the recent rise in Muslim militancy, but not all can be blamed upon that factor.
      These countries were reasonably prosperous, growing economies before the handover...now look at them !

    They speak for themselves !!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2008, 10:06:31 AM »
Now, now, Ivan. Just because folks in this room see though your thinly disguised hatred of Ann Rynd, you shouldn't get mad and make fun of my ignorance and obesity. I'm at least smart enough to gather enough food to feed myself to excess.
 
Your post is contradictory and poorly thought out.  You say that basic human greed has overridden the world order. Doesn't that mean that basic human greed is the world order? One group of folks exploiting another?  Has it ever been different?  Isn't it what you should expect?  It has always been that way, why should it change? If someone sells their farm, gives up their land, gives up their birthright in the pursuit of toys or leisure or $18.00 worth of beads or an iron cook pot or a bowl of soup, why is it my fault? What obligation do I have to feed them or say "Gee, you really were stupid. But that's okay. We'll give you back your money/soup/land/birthright/etc so you can keep breeding SO YOU CAN DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN." My whole idea is based on keeping those people FROM breeding.

Say what you will about the colonial imperialism in Africa. While it existed, Africa had a higher standard of living than they do now. They had stability as long as the Europeans had their foot on their necks and laws in place.  Now, after over 50 years of self-rule, they are still running amok, killing and eating one another. They have to hire outsiders at extravagant wages to run their infrastructure because when they send their best and brightest out to be educated, their best and brightest are smart enough to not come back. (and too, if you read a bit of African history before the coming of the white man, it wasn't much different than it is now unless you're talking about northern Africa)  I guess that's our fault too.

Let me say quickly that there is no such thing as a free gift!  No such thing as a free ride.  Sooner or later, the piper has to be paid!.  It is a law of Nature.  It is the basis of the Real Cost Principle. If you go down to the mission to get a "free" bowl of soup, you're damn sure gonna have to listen to the preaching before you get that bowl of soup.  If I give someone a biscuit from my table, that means there is one less biscuit for my children to eat. That's okay, I've plenty of biscuits. But what happens when the person to whom I've given a biscuit brings a friend?  And then another. What happens when those people vastly outnumber my family and they aren't begging biscuits, they're demanding biscuits? What is that free biscuit about to cost me?

I lived around and knew quite a few Amish while I lived in Oklahoma.  They're standoffish only because most folks look at them like they're simple or got two heads or something. Then, when they get their heads together, they laugh at how funny the English are.  They're a very practical people.  The Amish in Ok, can use tractors for the simple reason that a man and a team of horses can't cultivate enough ground to make a living in our poor soil like they can up in Pa. I knew one family that built a cellar and roofed it over and lived in it for 5 years while saving up enough money to build the rest of it.  They are also a paradox. The ones in Ok will not drive a car but they will ride in one. They will fly on a plane.  The main thing I admire about the Amish and it would be a good lesson to us all is they have a firm idea about the difference between a WANT and a NEED. Because the TV sez you gotta have it, don't mean you do.

If your remarks about the Amish merely means that you are espousing a simpler life, I daresay there isn't anyone in this room that won't agree with you.  And its an easy thing to do.  Just start unplugging stuff.   How far you want to go into the dark ages is up to you. Luxuries aren't bad in and of themselves, if you recognize them for what they are. You ideas aren't new. They cycle thru every so often. And some of the ideas are good. The extreme lashing-out at corporate imperialism is usually from some ill-prepared loser though.

You don't have to own a farm to be self sufficient. You would be surprised at how much food can be grown on just a small plot. And too, every farming village has to have a blacksmith, a cobbler. So self sufficiency doesn't have to mean tilling the soil but it does mean you must prepare yourself through education, or training to be an exploitor and not an exploitee.  Remember, it is not the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, nor the baker that feeds us, but rather their self interest.

I'll give you a "C" on construction; an "F" on content. 



Offline deltecs

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2008, 10:58:41 AM »
Excellent post beeman.  The concepts you have outlined mirrored my own but with much more flair, conciseness, and finesse.  The truth is that man's natural nature is to want material items for ease of living and for their children to have an easier time in this pursuit.  My wife of 36 years and I have labored hard and done without, so we can enjoy the fruits of this labor in our older years when we are not able to be as productive in physical labor.  Should be ever get together, I'll have biscuits ready hot from the oven.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2008, 06:57:19 AM »
Why, thank you. I'll bring the honey.  :D

Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2008, 11:07:36 AM »
i grew up on a farm. i live on a farm now. i work on another farm as well. i have studied this stuff for awhile now. and when i voiced my opinion, i never expected i would be called ivan for it. i guess that i'm not that good a writer cause no one can understand my thought process. so i'll try one more time. i believe that the world has the capacity to feed all it's people. i also feel that people would grow the food they need if they were not prohibited from doing so. they are kept from being self sufficient community by community, or country by country if you like, by any number of outside influences. war, economic imperialism, social safetynets that stay up too long, and commercial consumerism that can't be sustained by simple lifestyles to name a few. i am not a socialist, a marxist, or a communist. i don't even strike. i find another job. i know the things of which i speak. i don't know all the facts about the world food market. i do know that there is more to it than over population. or welfare dependant populations. i don't feel that qamerica will go hungry in the near future. i doo think that we in north america will start to pay a market value for food that will be more reflective of the true cost of production. not a price largely regulated by an over production surplus commodity system. and people in other parts will continue to starve, not from over populating. or laziness
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2008, 02:35:46 PM »
If you will read your very first post, I think you can understand where Ivan came from.  And the bit about the sold kidneys and indentured children was really over the top.  Just too, too much.  Since we have only two kidneys and you've got to have one to live, how does the fellow make his second crop?  Sell off a few more of the kids? 
You have fallen into the trap of blaming the woes of the world on some amorphous "they" instead of taking responsibility for the shortcomings yourself (or themselves, whichever is appropriate) "I don't grow my own food because "they" give me free food."  "MY child is a regular little monster because "they" won't let me discipline him." "He's dumber than a rock 'cause "they" won't teach him anything." What kind of spineless BS is that? What is gonna happen when the fellow has forgotten how to raise his own food and can't read a book to find out how and he finds out the Democrats lied to him and they aren't gonna take care of him from the cradle to the grave?  It seems the world is coming closer and closer to the time when the Piper has to be paid. I don't know how to do the math, but the world population is rising exponentially.  Maybe we can feed the world at this moment.  but what about 5 years from now?  10 years from now?  What happens if we have cataclysmic weather changes in America? At the moment, I don't mind feed someone from my table but only after my family is fed.  And when I do, it is charity, not a birthright. If the recipient can't handle that, then get a job or starve. 
 Ivan, I don't know what to tell you.  I really don't. If you are a farmer, you should know the market drives everything.  And farming is a crap shoot: My soil got warm early, there was a late freeze in Iowa, I'm gonna be a rich man! :D I'm also surprised, if you're a farmer, that you have the perspective you do.  Surely you've read about how on the huge collective farms in Russia, they started letting the workers cultivate small plots of ground on the side and any revenue they could get from the small plots was theirs to keep. The small plots were outproducing the main fields by a marked amount. There ain't no "they" out there. No imperialist plotting against the little man. Just the market forces that have always been there.  If there's a hard freeze in Iowa, start buying up those corn futures as hard as you can go. 'Course if you get called and you ain't got the corn, you'll lose your butt. Futures market is a crap shoot too. :D
Around here, in Wild and Wonderful, you've got folks that think they can still farm like Grandpaw did. They're the ones that will wake up one day and find "they" have come and tooken the farm away. And those folks will cuss "they" and the bank and the gov'ment and talk about how it's all a conspiracy to keep the little man down.  They'll blame everybody but whose at fault.  If we go over to one of the Amishman's farms, he might be reading it by a coal oil lamp but he'll be reading the latest farm bulletins and can take you to school about market trends,dairy management, and most anything else there is to do with farming.  He's not worried about "they"; he's too busy making money.  :D


 

Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2008, 04:39:14 PM »
i know i can't change your mind. but the facts i got are real. like 75% of the world's farming is still done with animal or human power. as you say the small plots in russia outproduced the large ones. then you contradict yourself by saying that the old ways are done. which is it? the only efficiency that large farms have over small farms is labour efficiency. one person doing the work of several. but there is a trade off. wasted fuel, wasted ground, wasted fertilizer and seed. do you know how much chemical is wasted every yr on an average large sized farm? when people spray thousands of $$$ of chemical every day? then it rains? then we over produce crops. so the price drops. do you have any idea what it costs to irrigate an acre of veggies in california? then truck it to the north east?

there are endless reasons why small mixed farms are input efficient and sustainable. i support people OWNING small mixed farms. and working with each other to supply food. a network of producers. not one giant farm working to the lowest common denominater.  this plan can work everywhere. if you look at the original post the author guywen dyer was quoted. he visited our local high school this past fall. one of his main points was the fact that war was one of the biggest problems that kept people from feeding themselves. not over population. not laziness. or welfare.
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2008, 02:32:48 AM »
That really doesn't work because of the constant redundancies.  Also, it assumes, I assume, a zero population growth. And what about your infrastructure? Your speaker, in addition to being a pacifist, was just dusting off Lenin's perfect world.  A society like we had to use when America was first colonized.  But as was quickly found out, all men are not equal, you have worker bees and you have drones.

You missed my point about the Russian farmers. The fellow working on the collective was like a union factory worker. As long as he did just enough to stay on the payroll, he was home free and dry. But when he was working on his own patch, he was like a piece worker, the harder he worked the more he made.

If your speaker said that SOME folks were poor because they were victims of the system, I'd say that was true; however, if he will not admit that an equal number are poor because they are lazy, his head is where the sun doesn't shine.

As far as efficiency is concerned, I forget the numbers but the number of folks the average farmer of today feeds compared to the number that he fed when I was a child has got to be a ten fold increase.  Explain that.  Maybe they should get some of those bums with the "I will work for food" signs and have them pick those potato bugs off by hand in exchange for food?  Doya think they'd do it? :D

Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2008, 05:30:19 AM »
buddy, i'm not here to fight with you about farming. do you even have any knowledge of it? the efficiency you talk about comes with a price. it's when gm retools and eliminates 10,000 workers. you just lost 10,000 customers. cause they can no longer afford the cars. so you still make the same number of cars creating a surplus. then the market is screwed up. farming is full of farmers that face the same issue. because of subsidies here, surplus is created. so the prices drop. and people in other countries can no longer sell their product for a profit. so they lose their farm. then we have a crop failure so the food runs out. and the other farmers are gone. so people starve. i can't make it much simpler than that. that's why farming is different than than any other business. and needs real sustainability systems. i assure you this isn't backward old timey thinking.
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Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2008, 05:38:18 AM »
and gwynne dyer is not dusting off the communist manifesto. he is a well known reporter and analyst specializing in war and economics. do some research.
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Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2008, 02:01:06 AM »
thank you. no country is truly secure until it has a sustainable food source
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Offline Chilachuck

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2008, 06:47:58 AM »
Gwynne Dyer may be what you say, and can still be a Marxist. He (a man named "Gwen"?) might even be a Marxist without knowing he is one, considering the state of education in the US. And being a well known reporter increases the odds the individual is a leftist, considering the state of the news media.

What is starving people in the world is _not_ war, but local politics. Someone gains enough local power to take the farms or shoot the farmers, etc. War might be the action by which the land is taken, but it is not the only way land can be taken. Nor is the actual taking of land the only way land can be removed from production, check the local zoning commissions (local politics).

An all lower case post is hard to read.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2008, 07:35:18 AM »
A sustainable food supply does not come from one man grubbing out enough food to barely feed his family.  Nor does Monsanto "force" you to grow anything you don't want to. Don't forget, this is America. Ivan, have you ever heard of a "cottn allotment"? Or a "tobacco allotment"?
If the American farmer out produces the farmer in BFE with his ox and wooden plow and his human waste for fertilizer, that's called the marketplace.  Its always been like that and it ain't gonna change.  
TM7 points out an interesting item that he feels is needed by us mean, old, fat Americans: secure borders. Do we need secure borders like East Germany?  Or the USSR? Or Cuba?  To keep the poor huddled masses from fleeing the grinding wheels of corporate greed.  To keep them here in abject poverty, ignorance, and squalor?  mindless hopelessness to ever rise above their pitiful lot?  No, TM7 wants those fences to keep people out of America, not in.
America has faults, no doubt about it.  But it's still the best game in town.  And I doubt it's gonna change just to suit a couple of dissidents like you and TM7 and old what's-his-name.  Simply stated, I love it. So my suggestion to you is study hard and make sure you're a exploitor and not an exploitee.  Or flee quickly before we close the border.   :D


Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2008, 10:19:33 PM »
TM7, monsanto is an excellent example. their seed crops come with so many strings attached. plant breeders rights gives them the chance to sell you seed, tell you where to sell it, and press charges against you if you try to keep any of it. pioneer seed corn develops hybrid varieties that can be grown only one yr. the resultant crop is sterile and cannot be saved for seed. what about the integrated farm scheme that companies like tyson operate. they sell you the birds and the feed has to come from them too. they control when you sell them and for how much. they will even look after your mortgage for you.
    beemanbeme, your idea of the market place no longer exists. and am i to assume you trust the tobacco manufacturers ?
chilachuck, to make fun of a guy's name does not lend credibility to an argument. and politics/war is a factor in the food crisis i agree. that's what i have included as a reason that keeps many people from being able to farm for themselves.
if people are worried about their food supply the best way to start sustaining it is to buy food grown as close to your home as possible. and try to buy it directly from a farmer or farm market.
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Offline Chilachuck

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2008, 05:29:49 AM »
351, accusations of making fun of someone's name are, in this instance, absurd and defensible only in a liberal college where hypersensitivity to such things are the norm, and one of may reasons "rednecks" regard liberals as twits.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2008, 08:00:33 AM »
I disagree that America will have a shortage of food.  We export much more food than consumed here in the US.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thats the rub when the farmer (actually a international conglomerate now days) most farm support checks go to n.y.city addresses. Can get a lot more to export the food we will have to pay a lot more or watch american fields feed other countries while americans go hungry.
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2008, 10:14:02 AM »
TM7 do you really believe that babblespeak you're drooling?  Or are you just tickled that you've found someone young and naive enough to hook up with your anti-American beliefs? 

I know quite a lot about farming and I can probably out-garden you any day of the week.  How much do you know about French intensive gardening?  Square foot planting?  Compatible plantings? Organic gardening? Or do you get most of your food from the commodity bank?  Sounds about right. I know that a F1 hybrid is more disease resistant and will outproduce a heirloom seed any day of the week.  And a whole lot of hard-working, industrious folks have made a lot of money raising chickens for Prunell.  Of course, the key words there are hard-working and industrious.  Won't work for folks that sit on their butts waitting for the gov'ment to take care of them.  Or sit around whining about how the big corporations keep the little man down and such.
Ivan, I didn't think you'd know what a tobacco allotment was. 

Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2008, 02:01:14 PM »
chilichuck, i don't remember calling anyone a redneck. i have identified the fact that you felt called to ridicule a man's name in the hope that it would prop up your argument or your ego. i have been taught not to do that as it cheapens one's dignity. i do in fact vote conservatively. mainly to protect gun rights.
beemanbeme, i like the fact you have some farm knowledge. and i know how long and hard farmers work to make a living. the point is the lack of sustainability of the present system. ask a farmer if they felt more secure when they had 500 acres and neighbors, or when they got to 5000 acres with no one on their road that cares what he grows as long as he dosen't slow them down on the road with his tractor.
(i wish i was as young as you think i am)
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Offline rex6666

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2008, 05:03:47 AM »
saw a video on the news the other nite, some one begging for more food, as they unloaded trucks with big bags of something, all the bags were marked U S but we need to send more. If they had oil France and Germany would send food. I get so tired of the U.S. being the bad guys, because we can grow it or make it.
Rex
GOD GUNS and GUTS MADE AMERICA GREAT

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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2008, 08:04:33 AM »
TM7, yeah, I got a big chip on my shoulder about you guys that want to whine about American successes, our production, our position as world leader as if we're the bad guys.  And you want to do it with gravy running down your chin and a pocket full of greenbacks. If what you say is true, you have a very diverse portfolio.  With your attitude, I can understand why you changed jobs often.

There's a world of difference between farming 500 acres and trying to eke out a living scratching at 25 acres. 

Rex666, Where I live a lot of folks are on welfare, believe me when I tell you, there is no such thing as "enough".

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2008, 09:13:27 AM »
I will admit to not reading all the post but it seems that some justify the starving as out of control population control . while others want to trade birth control for food .
i see it as the world , at least the people that have advanced past the stone age have specialized in what they do to be worth while on the planet . Others for what ever reason have not . When one looks around the world and sees peoples of all kinds sitting on top of some of the richest deposits of resources and good farm land yet asking for hand outs from the world i just can't feel like i owe them !
yes in some places it is truly poor with little option for help but then you see hundreds or thousands of children being born with no way to be fed , when is enough enough ? what obligation do people have to help themselves ?
what we have are workers and freeloaders , at what point do we say the workers can't support the freeloaders anymore ?
when do we demand the workers get less , lower their standard of living so the freeloaders can have ?
if you worked harder but received less and saw free loaders standard of living getting closer to your standard of living what incentive is it for you to produce more ?
you can only appeal to ones desire to help other humans to a point , then we must see others help themselves . Even in the Bible food that fell to the ground was left so the poor could pick it up and feed themselves not given to them as a free ride .
We have taken away the dignity of many people and replaced it with welfare , that was wrong and we will pay in the long run !
a food catastrophe ? maybe a righting of the natural order of things would be better !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2008, 09:29:22 AM »
welfare is a totally different subject than what this topic started as.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2008, 09:39:31 AM »
when you try to feed the world , wealfare seems to be the correct word ( unless you only use it to describe that out of control insituition that holds America hostage )
If in fact the inablity of those still producing food to satisy the need will affect the wealfare of us all to some degree !
I have to disagree its the same topic , maybe not your take but still related enough to merit inclusion .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2008, 09:49:51 AM »
The world's food production is enough to feed the world.  There are four reasons for general food shortages.  1) Transportation system, (bad roads, no railroads, no airports)   2) Political system, (socialist systems like old USSR's, wars, etc, contribute to low or no crop yield in some countries).  3) Religious system, (like India, can't eat meat or kill animals, including pests).  4) Droughts, hurricanes, bad weather.  This one usually can be remedied by a good transportation system, so that areas of the world that has a good year, can supply those that don't.

Offline 351 power

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Re: The coming food catastrophe
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2008, 04:21:47 PM »
good post dixie dude. and i encourage everyone to buy as much direct from a farmer as you can
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colour is a symbol of where you are from and not of who you are