Author Topic: KP-1 problems (Read 4133 times)

Tunaman · « **on:** April 13, 2008, 10:26:45 AM »

I spent the day at the range today. We had less than Ideal conditions with gusty 20 mph winds but most of the time, they were right in my face. I decided to bring the KP-1 which I have chosen to leave with just iron sights. I had a box and a half of Hornady LE in 45-70 that i shoot in my handi and decided to break her in with this ammo. I thoroughly cleaned her before shooting. Between the first 3 shots I cleaned the barrel. After shot 2 and 3, the gun opened on its own after the shot. Shot 4 was a failure to fire and the gun would not open. All 4 shots were from sand bags. The front bag was at the receiver end of the forearm. after many attempts to open the firearm, it finally popped open. I removed the round which had a deep pit in the primer but did not fire. All primers were, fired produced very deep pitting on the primers. I fired two more times from the standing position with no problems. Over all, the rounds went right where I wanted them to and at 75 yards, the first three were in 2 1/2 inches. Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas? It seems like pressure issues, but that doesnt make much sense to me with factory ammo.

Underclocked · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2008, 04:56:26 PM »

WOW! That is more than a little spooky.

Your firing pin IS in the centerfire position, isn't it? Maybe someone put it in rimfire at the factory. Were the indentations centered? In any case, get hold of Knight asap.

So far, I'm pretty disappointed in the KP1 as a muzzleloader. I had elected to use the plain, long-nosed 209 plug without the extractor installed. Blowback into the action continues to be pretty substantial and when I was cleaning the rifle (and with no encouragement from me) the remainder of the components for the extractor sort of fell/flew out of the rifle. I found the cross-bar that goes in there easily enough but the spring took a little longer. Looking for the spring, I not only found it but metal ball that apparently goes in on one end of the spring or the other.

Have contacted Knight via email regarding the self-disassembly and have asked for instruction about reassembly of those pieces (there are only so many options but there may be a piece that I DIDN'T find). So far I've heard nothing from them.

xhare · « **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2008, 05:40:44 AM »

I wish I had something to report, but as yet I have not been able to get out with my 45-70. My shooting area is near a creak and it went underwater recently. Needless to say, it has been pretty muddy since. Hopefully it will be dry enough to get out and do some shooting. Perhaps this weekend will allow me to do so. I will get back with you as soon as I have some information about my experience.

Tunaman · « **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2008, 10:56:45 AM »

Just a quick update. I brought My KP-1 in to my dealer and we gave Knight a call. They were very helpful on the phone and they seemed genuinely concerned and surprised. They are paying for the shipping to send the gun back and I feel very confident that the problem will be resolved. This is my first Knight but based on their customer service, it will not be my last. I will update this thread when i know more.

30-06man · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2008, 04:45:44 PM »

You can still have Issues with factory ammo. I don't think its the gun, I wouldn't overlook a mistake at Hornaday with a few rounds of ammo.

Tunaman · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2008, 02:11:24 PM »

I got a call from my shop on Thursday that they had my KP-1 back from Knight. I picked it up today. The Barrel and locking latch had been replaced. They did the work and had it back to me in just over 5 weeks. I cant complain about that. It was defiantly test shot as the barrel had some minor fowling. I will shot it asap and report back. All in all, there turnaround has me very impressed.

Underclocked · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2008, 06:42:19 AM »

Knight does provide good customer service.

Did Knight also shorten the hammer travel?

Tunaman · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2008, 12:29:30 PM »

I do not belive so.At least, they did not indicate doing so on there letter that accompanied the gun.

Underclocked · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2008, 12:35:05 PM »

Mine will be taking its second trip back to Knight (on their dime) again tomorrow. I don't believe this rifle was ready for prime-time.

30-06man · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2008, 03:46:53 PM »

Quote from: Underclocked on May 20, 2008, 12:35:05 PM

Mine will be taking its second trip back to Knight (on their dime) again tomorrow. I don't believe this rifle was ready for prime-time.

Same problem? I have seen some good reviews and I am kinda expecting a voluntary recally on the Hammer Safety.

Underclocked · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2008, 04:02:34 AM »

Not the de-cocking safety - it's useless to me but it does seem to work after the hammer throw was shortened. But that fix left its own problem which is more just an annoyance. Everything works but blowback into the action area is pretty bad - as it has been all along when using the non-FPJ system. The suggestion was that my rifle has a combination of tolerances such that the primer is not being properly held in the primer pocket of the plug - in other words the primer is not being held tightly against the receiver. That would also explain why I WAS getting indents in the primers when they were held in place by the FPJ but not when using the standard 209 system.

I would think the primers should be slightly compressed and held tightly in that pocket when the action is closed. That is not happening. Once blowback makes its way back into the action - cleaning time and effort become a real issue.

Knight is being great (Branch Meanley in particular) about addressing the issues with my rifle.

"Professional" reviewers are pretty amazing, aren't they?

30-06man · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2008, 02:03:06 PM »

It seems like if they can't fix it they should replace the barrel if its the problem or the breach plug. I would guess its the barrel and they will replace it. I like the FPJ anyways because it is easier to load with gloves on or numb fingers.

Underclocked · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2008, 02:20:41 PM »

I can just about guarantee you would NOT like the FPJs for use in the KP1.

Underclocked · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2008, 03:53:57 AM »

Just received a call from Branch Meanley (it wasn't fair since I hadn't finished my first gallon of coffee yet). He is sending my rifle back today.

The non-fpj breech plug is being changed with respect to how the magnet is retained and in order to better protect the magnet. The change involves the addition of a steel "washer" which will be pressed over the magnet.

The excessive hammer motion during cocking was the result of a running production change. A rod inside the trigger assembly was being changed to yield the shorter hammer throw Sorry I can't be more specific or show an illustration, but the inner workings of that trigger are one place I haven't been and probably won't ever go. Apparently the new rods were not all the same length, with one extreme or the other of that dimension causing the excessive travel during cocking. Mr. Meanley told me that my catching that issue early on was a help to Knight (score another for the hillbilly, I'll pat myself on the back

). He is shipping my rifle back today along with two of the new breechplugs.

Underclocked · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2008, 06:30:48 AM »

re-worked trigger/hammer assembly results in far less hammer travel. Cocking requires a bit more force but not bad at all,
no cocking overtravel and trigger is still nice and crisp (although at a somewhat heavier pull than before)

30-06man · « **Reply #15 on:** June 15, 2008, 06:38:01 AM »

Quote from: Underclocked on June 12, 2008, 06:30:48 AM

re-worked trigger/hammer assembly results in far less hammer travel. Cocking requires a bit more force but not bad at all,
no cocking overtravel and trigger is still nice and crisp (although at a somewhat heavier pull than before)

Thats good. Thanks for the update.

Tunaman · « **Reply #16 on:** September 13, 2008, 03:22:28 PM »

I finally got a chance to shoot the kp1 today. It was too windy to shoot seriously but the rifle preformed well. The rifle seems to be fixed correctly, and that is all that I can ask for. I shot a mix of my hand loads and Hornady left overs from last year. Both loads shot pretty well with less change in poi than I was expecting. At 100 yrds, my loads were about 1/2 inch low and an inch to the right. When it is less windy I will go back and try to shoot some groups and in the mean tme I am going to work on my load a bit and see if i can get any closer. It would be great to have a back up factory load that doesn't require scope adjustments. Unfortunatly, My loads do produce a bit more recoil.

TDH · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2008, 08:21:58 AM »

I have just tested my new KP 1 and will be sending iit back to the shop. 30-06 barrel, after a few shots did not want to open, eight misfires from three differnt factory loads, no consistant grouping of shots, gave up. Put BP barrel on tried new Barnes PBT 290g , 100g. Pyrodex pellets, no consistant grouping at 100 yards, tried same powder load with 245 Spitzer BT same story shots all over the target. No grouping. Last weekend fired from 50 yards, 100g pyrodex and 260 grain hp. grouped well. I am not a happy camper. My old Knight in line is a tack driver doesn't matter if its 50 or 100 yds. Dead Meat !!!!!!!!!!

yooper77 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2008, 08:39:06 AM »

I am sorry you have having problems, but wasn't this gun supposed to have improved all of T/C Encore's mistakes and perform flawlessly?

Did you use a hammer extension or is that against Knights warranty like T/C for the misfires?

Do you feel the forend is giving you the accuracy problems or the barrel or both? Or scope or scope mount or both?

yooper77

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** October 06, 2008, 10:52:00 AM »

Quote from: TDH on October 06, 2008, 08:21:58 AM

I have just tested my new KP 1 and will be sending iit back to the shop. 30-06 barrel, after a few shots did not want to open, eight misfires from three differnt factory loads, no consistant grouping of shots, gave up. Put BP barrel on tried new Barnes PBT 290g , 100g. Pyrodex pellets, no consistant grouping at 100 yards, tried same powder load with 245 Spitzer BT same story shots all over the target. No grouping. Last weekend fired from 50 yards, 100g pyrodex and 260 grain hp. grouped well. I am not a happy camper. My old Knight in line is a tack driver doesn't matter if its 50 or 100 yds. Dead Meat !!!!!!!!!!

What happened to the "Very accurate even with cheap Wally world bullets, and some old FFg bp."?

Tim

Quote from: TDH on September 30, 2008, 07:48:49 AM

I just purchased the New Knight KP 1 whitetail comb. Shoots great new recoil pad makes it nice. Very accurate even with cheap Wally world bullets, and some old FFg bp. Just got some of the Barnes 290g Polymer Tip Boat Tails in and some 245g Spitzer bthp. I am egerly awaiting the chance to try these loads with Triple 7 or Pyrodex. I have a older Model 93 in-line its a tack driver. Love those Knights.

TDH · « **Reply #20 on:** October 07, 2008, 07:35:28 AM »

What happened to the "Very accurate even with cheap Wally world bullets, and some old FFg bp."?

I think I'll go back to them, or experiment with different powder charges to see if that will bring a satisfactory group together. I have checked all the possibilities,scope, mounts, etc. I will solve the BP issue (I hope) the 30-06 issue will have to be a factory job.

yooper77 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 07, 2008, 08:25:52 AM »

The KP-1 looks a lot like the much older TCR's? The TCR'S have a lever but not a button on the forend, wow what a concept. Plus the TCR's don't have an external hammer.

I don't think T/C made muzzleloader barrels for it though, since they had a huge line of caplocks at the time.

yooper77

Scorpion210 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 12, 2008, 04:21:11 PM »

Add me to the list of people with misfires with a 45/70. Of 6 bullets, 4 fired and 2 did not. This gun has a total of 10 shots fired through it. Sent email to Knight. I am already on my 2nd trigger assembly. And the safety on the hammer is an absolute pain in the butt.

yooper77 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 12, 2008, 05:53:15 PM »

Sounds like Knight has to go back to the drawing board, luckily they named it the KP1.

KP1, which stands for "Knight Phase One."

I always thought the idea of a hammer safety on the KP1 is a waste or joke.

The safety for the Encore is pull the hammer back when you are ready to shoot, should be the same for the KP1.

yooper77

xhare · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2008, 05:07:52 AM »

You can read about my range visit here...

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,152026.0.html

...but one thing I did not mention was the fact that I had no ignition problems at all. All fired ammo had a very prominent firing pin impact. Everything I shot went bang the first time. The only issues I had were that my rifle was difficult to open after firing my reloads (which I cover in the above report) and with the hammer extension working loose after firing (it is easy to retighten, you just have to remind yourself to check it so it does not go flying away some day).

Scorpion210 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 13, 2008, 07:18:12 AM »

I had to locktite my hammer exstenion as it backed out on me as well but mine would not screw in all the way. The shoulder hits the reinforcement rib under the hammer which does not allow it to seat properly. On a good note, the gun did shoot well as I was able to get a 3/4" group at 100yds from a lead sled. Sighted in easlily with no fliers to question.

TDH · « **Reply #26 on:** October 15, 2008, 08:30:53 AM »

Returned to range ( my pasture) used 100g pyrodex and 250g spitzer BT, first shot 2 1/2 inches high 1/4 inch left of center. Run cleanning patch fired same powder load 290g PTB 1/4inch high 1/4 inch to the right of center. Went back to the 250g easier to load, 1 1/2 inch group 1 1/2-1 3/4 ten shots high 2inches and to the left 1-1 1/2 inches. Cleaned bore between each shot. On my 12th shot I did not clean between shots. 1/2 inch circle for a bullseye the shot was touching the circle. This is the way my old 85 is first shot out of a clean barrel is a little off second shot out of a dirty barrel dead on. Anyone else experience this? Oh by the way range was at 50 yards.

Tunaman · « **Reply #27 on:** December 06, 2008, 12:17:55 PM »

UGGGGG. I thought that Knight had worked out all of my problems but Friday I found out that that was not the case. After a slow Morning hunt, I decided to do some scouting. I put my bolt gun in the truck and grabbed my kp1 45-70 and went for a walk. I was scouting a creek bed and It had some tight and tall banks so if I bumped anything, it would be a short shot and i would have to make it quick. As luck would have it, I bumped a good one and had a good shot at it. The only problem was when my gun should have gone boom, it went click. Failed to fire and to add locked itself up. I was pretty steamed. I walked back out to my truck and took the trigger group out and opened the barrel. The primer had a light strike. I drove out and stopped at the edge of the property and put another round in and pulled the trigger. Click. The transfer bar was sticking. I called my buddy that runs the gunshop and told him and he called Knight right away. It seems that they are releasing a new trigger group very soon and they will replace my whole set up with one with the new trigger group. I sure hope that it is an improvment. I hope that it isn't a two and done gun. When it goes bang, it does it well. The barrel is accurate and the stock fits me well, but it has to go bang everytime that I pull the trigger. Oh, and I want that deer back. I hunted that creekbed this morning and all that I saw was a couple of does and a spike, but he will be back.

Underclocked · « **Reply #28 on:** December 06, 2008, 04:21:46 PM »

It seems things like that always happen at the most inopportune times. Tough luck. I'm hoping to get one of those new trigger assemblies as well ... and maybe a KP2.

Has your forearm developed any slippage or slight movement when installed? Mine did and a small piece of electrical tape cured it.

CelticCross · « **Reply #29 on:** December 07, 2008, 02:57:44 AM »

I got a muzzleloader/ .223 combo a week ago. I have not fired it yet as I need to get rings and bases for it. ( any body tried a handi rifle base on it yet?) It has a very early serial# and I am now worried I'll see some of the same problems. Is the new trigger assembly going to be part of a recall or is it only if you have problems? My serial # is under 00500. Any info?

Ryan