Risk of Nuclear Attack on U.S. Rises

[billy_56081]

"The Iranian government may be boastful and like to rattle their saber, but they're not so stupid as to think that they can get in an attack on Israel without being turned into ashes."

Never underestimate the power of stupid! Heck here in America we even have people that believe 9/11 was a conspiracy carried out by our own people, and others that actually believe, now get this, this ought to crack you up good, some people even believe Islam is a religion that is peaceful and tolerant.

[kevthebassman]

What does any of that have to do with the fact that Israel would broil the Iranians to a crispy, golden brown if it came down to it?

[ironglow]

Kev;
  I believe what Billy is pointing out, is that most nations are moved to provoke only wars they believe they can win..after weighing the weaponry, logistics, allies and
   just downright "common sense". the factors that may propel Ahmadinijad (sp?) into an all out attack..will have nothing to do with any of these factors..but more to
  do with when "I'madinnerjacket" thinks the "final mahdi"..pokes his nose around the corner..which could happen at any time.

                       www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51968

[kevthebassman]

Kev;
  I believe what Billy is pointing out, is that most nations are moved to provoke only wars they believe they can win..after weighing the weaponry, logistics, allies and
   just downright "common sense". the factors that may propel Ahmadinijad (sp?) into an all out attack..will have nothing to do with any of these factors..but more to
  do with when "I'madinnerjacket" thinks the "final mahdi"..pokes his nose around the corner..which could happen at any time.

                       www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51968

Iran's president may hate the Israelis with a burning passion, but an American attack on Iran simply isn't going to solve that.  Neither is an Israeli attack, for that matter.  The Iranians have their own internal strife and not everyone in the country tows the hard line.  Ahmadinejad gets protested when he speaks at Iranian universities, and there is a reform movement in Iran which was elected and held power up until 2005, but had their efforts held back by religious hardliners in the Iranian equivalent of our Supreme Court.  They will probably will see power again after the shenanigans of Ahmadinejad.

As an aside, you make me laugh posting up worldnetdaily as some sort of reliable source when you won't even accept the NY Times as a source.  WND is only vaguely familiar with reality, and they couldn't even spell journalism.

[DalesCarpentry]

If I am not mistaken. The president of Iran is a terrorist. He was involved in the hi jacking of an airliner. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. Dale

[kevthebassman]

If I am not mistaken. The president of Iran is a terrorist. He was involved in the hi jacking of an airliner. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. Dale

If I recall correctly, he was supposedly involved in the storming of the US Embassy in Tehran and the following hostage situation.

Regardless, our "terrorist" is Iran's "freedom fighter," just the same as it was when the redcoats were outraged at the Yankee militia who were hiding behind trees and shooting officers, or when the Israelis bombed a group of people to kill one Hezbollah leader.  It's all a matter of perspective. 

[ironglow]

  Kev;
  You seem to be afflicted with the same malady that many liberals have; that of "equivalency".. Freedom fighters fight to bring freedom to the people..
   In your last post you admitted that I'madinnerjacket has done his best to enslave the people...and they are ready to rise against him..so he could hardly
  be considered a "freedom fighter".

   I will proudly post World Net Daily in preference to the NY Times...unless or until I find World Net Daily telling such outrageous and repulsive lies
   as the NY Times regularly indulges in !

[Chilachuck]

No, Kev. The President of Iran is the front man for a bunch of theocrats who seized control of their nation and instituted a bunch of highly repressive laws.

Look up Sharia law. Look up how many teen age girls are executed for "prostitution" (reporting being raped). Check how many people had their fingers broken for smoking.

Israel? The innocents get killed because they either step between the Moslem terrorists and the Israelis to provide the terrorists cover, or the terrorists hide behind women and children so the Jews cannot shoot back without hitting women and children.

The Hamas and other Moslem terrorists target random civilians. Some "freedom fighters". Bring them around and I'll shoot a few myself.

[DalesCarpentry]

I stand corected then. It might have been that hostage thing I was thinking of. I know I remember seeing a picture of a guy who was involved that looked just like the president of Iran. Dale

[gypsyman]

I've seen the picture's you refer to Dale. They were taken almost 30 years ago. I still believe that it might very well be Amahnejidad. Just like Hanoi Jane. Kinda like a leopard. Real hard to change your change your spots. Indoctrinated at a young age. And you have to remember, for these people, it's an honor to lie and die for their religion.
I live not to far from what our govt. is calling a target area,Toledo,Ohio. We have 2 major oil refinery's, 2 nuclear power plants within 30 miles of each other, and a major shipping artery from the Midwest. They've already hit New York  twice. Just the psychological effect of hitting a city in the heartland would cause great turmoil.
And here is where we, around the Toledo area might be in more jeopardy than most. Dearborn,Michigan is just 35 miles to the north, home of the biggest Muslim population in the country. And the biggest Mosk is located in Perrysburg,Ohio, 10 miles south of Toledo, right on I75. I try and not think of the possibilities, as is very depressing!  gypsyman

[beemanbeme]

Why are we so busy looking under the bed??  There has always been possible disasters. They used to be somewhat restricted to the Nat'l Enquirer but now they seem to have moved uptown and onto the 5'o'clock news. Some folks deal with it and others wring their hands and let it rule their lives.  And become totally ineffective.  They use it as an excuse for failure. 
During the cold war when USSR and the USA were eyeball to eyeball, you had mopes whining about "Why should I --fill in the blank--, I might get vapourized tomorrow by a mega bomb."  Unfortunately, those people survived and now they've passed this wienie gene onto a whole generation of losers.  America's biggest problem is a whole generation of folks that have been lead to believe that the gov'ment would take care of them instead of relying on themselves.

They've been hijacking planes at least since Castro closed his borders. And this idea of "closing our borders" is only going to strain an already ineffective home defense agency to the breaking point.  And, in truth, would do nothing to deter bringing bindery components into this country to make a bomb in Old McDonald's woodshed. And so its a fact of life. Could another 9/11 happen?  Possibly.  Could we survive it?  Without a doubt.  London survived nightly bombings and decimating losses of civilian lives. Are we any less a people? You acknowledge it and do what you can and get on with it or you sit and whine and practice saying "I'd rather be red than dead". 

Admiral Yamamoto told the Japanese War Council during WW2, "we must never invade the United States for there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass...".  Wonder what he would say now?

[Chilachuck]

TM7, the cultures of the Middle East are based on barter in the market place, and there are no laws against lying about what is being sold. This permeates the cultures, to the extent that the typical Middle Easterner is a far superior liar than most US politicians.

But, about the guy with a face like an armpit:

"modest existence" just like the Jesuits who burned a lot of people to death in the dark ages. Great. Such praise.

"lives in a Tehran apartment" Uh, so what? I'm sure a lot of useless people live in apartments. Or is there something special about Tehran?

"has a 20 year old car" Again, "so what?" Oh, you mean he is not in it for money? Well, that does not rule out insanity or religious fanaticism.

"has a history pHD" ("PhD", aka "Piled higher and Deeper") If you recall, there is a history professor, Michael Bellesiles, was recently caught slanting history in his book. Having a degree does not preclude bias, or insanity. As a point of fact, I've met raving Marxists with history degrees. No reason other sorts of fanatics cannot have degrees.

"speaks French" So do most Parisians, and I've never met one I could stand. You really did not get him any bonus points with that one.

"rarely wears a suit" in a country where most people wear bath robes and pajamas. Although, that is the only indication I've ever seen that he had any sense at all, especially considering the climate there.

"meets with Iranian jewry and christians regularly" Well, someone has to collect the tribute for not being murdered. Hmm, their murderers also meet them, though. Briefly. If the Jews and Christians are lucky.

"and has repeatedly tried to have dialogue with the USA." No, he has repeatedly tried to tell the President of the US what the President should force the people of the US to do or not do. He is foolish enough to think the President is the absolute ruler of the US, like an Eastern Potentate. The greatest irony is that his best allies in the US are the very people the religious Moslems regard as the most despicable.

OK, you have convinced me that Armpitadad is honest in his beliefs. And should be shot on sight like a rabid dog instead of being argued with about his beliefs. Nothing personal. Just public safety.

[Echo4Lima]

There is a picture of Imadimjihad in the Embassy compound.  AP I think.  Several of the hostages have also positively I D'd him.

The Nuke thing on Israel? You give Iran to much credit for intelligence.  It has nothing to do with smarts. Its all about Allah.  If Iran nukes Israel it'll be because their God (Allah) is greater than the Israeli God.  If the other way around, the Muslims will see the Israeli God as greater.

"Allah O Akbar" is not "God is Great".  Its "God is GREATER".  Therefore, Iran nuking Israel hasn't anything to do with intellect.

Watch the response to this.

[myronman3]

i cant believe that because wikipedia is being sited as a source for credible information.    'I READ IT ON THE INTERNET"  you HAVE to be kidding me. 

[myronman3]

well that would be me.  my point is,   tryING to use the brief description wikipedia gives about anything to dismiss accusations of terrorism IS FOOLISH.    i still think that is hilarious!   well, WIKIPEDIA didnt say he was a terrorist.....   perhaps the us government should just check people's names on wikipedia to determine if they have done anything.   BRILLIANT!   
   really man,  you have GOT to be kidding me, right?   i KNOW you can do better than THAT! at least i expect something a little more clever than that from you of all people.

[ironglow]

 TM says that Ahminidinijab has no palaces, no opulence, no womanizing and no expensive vices...neither did Hitler !  Oh yes; and many of those Nazis got their necks stretched while denying the holocaust which they perpetrated..same as Ahminidijab is doing today...

         Guess I'll call him "Jimmyjab" from now on, easier to remember and he and other Muslims use "Jimmy" Carter to jab US in the eye !  ...So, as far as I'm concerned,
  he is "Jimmyjab" from now on !

[ncsurveyor]

JJ's vices.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Politics/?id=1.0.1845930237

Tehran, 5 Feb.(AKI) – A decision by Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to acquire four guard dogs has upset the ayatollahs from the holy city of Qom.

The four dogs, bought in Germany at a cost of 110,000 euros each, are the topic of theological controversy because Islam considers dogs to be impure.

For this reason, the government has banned owners of domestic animals from taking them on the streets of the city, and owners risk penalties or the 'detention' of their animals in a pound.

Now that Ahmadinejad is protecting German dogs, many are asking the question: why can he have dogs while other citizens are banned?

The move has been badly received by several high-ranking ayatollahs.

In the middle of the controversy, the Fars agency considered the unofficial spokesman for Ahmadinejad, gave wide coverage to the issue related to the president's dogs.

"First of all these dogs are only of a German breed, bought as puppies, but grown and trained in Iran in the hands of Iranian instructors," Fars said.

"The purchase of these dogs was authorised by a fatwa issued by several ayatollahs who approved the use of these animals if the only goal was to guarantee personal security and not infringe on any religious rule."

It's a judgement not shared by other religious leaders, for example, those that issued a fatwa authorising police to fine whoever is seen on the street with a puppy.

Just a little elitist, I would think.

I know, big deal, they are just dogs.

Just $161,000 dogs.

Each.

[ironglow]

  Right on ncsurveyor;

    ...And Hitler was addicted to; ready for this ?...CREAM DOUGHNUTS..  And as a man that eschews alcohol, I must admit that both Hitler and JimmyJab also are non-alcoholic !
     Usually despotic leaders have their own set of values; and they usually differ greatly from the average person that is under their thumb; and certainly from folks in the free world.
         These kind of people do not "get their kicks" in the same way as most of us do ! Their FUN is having absolute power over helpless victims ! By observation; for the
    first few years of their regime they don't need nice cars, fancy homes or Rolex watches. They are too busy consolidating power and enjoying the pain & discomfort
    of their victims. Their attitude does however, rub off on some of their dimwitted followers, who may be inclined to torture and murder helpless captives, seeking their
   leader's approbation.
          Your observation about the expensive German bred dogs is well taken, such dogs are usually fierce..but loyal; just like the savage human dogs he is sending into
  Iraq and Afghanistan these days.
             
     As a side note, just in the past 2-3 days, a mob of these "fierce Iranian fighters" in southern Afghanistan, ran up against US Marines of the 24th MEU..and they
   quickly learned what "fierce" really is ! The Marines (Devil Dogs) taught them just how tough;... well trained, well conditioned, and HONORABLE warriors can be...but a fair
   number of them won't be taking the tale back to JimmyJab !

             BTW: JimmyJab has his pet German bred dogs..don't forget Hitler's "Blondi"..who Hitler turned against, and poisoned in the end !
         
            ChilaChuck;
                I truly enjoyed your rebuttal of the weak argument concerning "austere living", such as was also enjoyed by Attila the Hun ! Jeffrey Dahmer lived in a simple
  apartment, with few amenities..but seemed to enjoy himself, nonetheless. ...And remember "Liver eating Johnson" lived in a single room, log cabin, during the times he
  dined on liver ! Haven't we all seen photos of Ted Kazinsky's "unabomber cabin", built by a man who had advanced degrees and could have easily owned much better.
     
       I find it hard to believe there are still people that do not understand that madness does not always demand palatial surroundings..........

   You pointed out that fact, very accurately and succinctly !

[ncsurveyor]

As for Amahinedjad's recent 'love' of dogs...I'd say in his recent need for security (probably good idea on his part) the German's ripped him off.
.................

"First of all these dogs are only of a German breed, bought as puppies, but grown and trained in Iran in the hands of Iranian instructors," Fars said.

"The purchase of these dogs was authorised by a fatwa issued by several ayatollahs who approved the use of these animals if the only goal was to guarantee personal security and not infringe on any religious rule."

...TM7

Oh the German's ripped him off all right.  Probably told him they were Israeli sniffing dogs.

But look at the spin doctor's comments -  paraphrased as "Sure, they're German; but RAISED in Iran, and trained in IRAN, by IRANIANS.  No blasphemy intended, but for the security of the boss, you understand, right?."  (side note - if Iranians consider dogs as unpure, where did the Iranian trainers come from?)

He's justifying his actions, pure and simple.  (Well his PR guy is doing it for him, but anyway).  I'm sure he can use some twisted interpretation of the good book, as well as any conspiracy theories provided to him, in order to justify any deviation from common decency or humanic responsibility.  He's just a man in power, like any other.  And just as any man in power, he can decide to take peace by the horns if he so chooses.  Maybe he can ask the fast boats to stop antagonizng ships in the gulf.  Perhaps stem the flow of Iranian arms and training into Iraq?

Its not disconcerting that we expect more from our own, but it is disconcerting that we tolerate it from others.

If he isn't careful, he'll have to train them dogs to frisbee catch a cruise missile.

[myronman3]

i am disappointed in you tm7.  no serious rebutal.  i'll just take that as you knowing that you stepped it in when you used wikipedia as a be-all-end-all source.   the silence is deafening.

and here all this time i was under the impression you were a thinker.

[myronman3]

i have no beef with wikipedia.  they give a super brief description of whatever you type in.  i am saying that for you to present that brief description wikipedia gives of jimmyjab as ironclad proof he has nothing to do with terrorism is as absurd as anything i have ever heard.   i am equally shocked i have to explain this to you, as it is about as obvious as can be.  so much so, i didnt think it required an explaination.     
    again, i am really surprised.  i thought you were a thinker.

[myronman3]

i am not going to debate that with you.  my point is that you tried to use wikipedia as PROOF.  this is absurd.  i am not getting sucked into minutia.   dont get mad at me, you are the one that did it.  i just pointed out how absurd it was.

[ncsurveyor]

Please don't let the guys at the lodge know that I'm doing this, but despite my total disagreement with TM7 over numerous issues, I think he's being unduly persecuted on the wikipedia issue.

He cited his source, even indicated it was their position.  I'm not so sure that it was to prove that JJ isn't involved in terrorism as it was to show that he may not have been involved in one specific event.  The other gibberish was to establish some humanity in the tyrant, so that we may be able to personify him, before we condemn him as a zealot.

Wikipedia is normally very careful about citing its sources, and linking to them when available, when they are on line, and the biblio will typically have it itemized, so I consider it objective in that regard.

Now, what's this BS about their governement connection? 

[ncsurveyor]

Didn't consider it that back handed, but your welcome, I guess.

Didn't say you were giving him a funny face, but was your reason an attempt to indicate that he was a human, rather than a raving and blithering sociopath as part of your effort to dispell the apparent one-sidedness of this campaign?  I said personify, not caricature.

Maybe I use words that that have heavily sided connotations.

Not sure how to take the intent of the ice comment, but the Lodge members are strictly beavers, and another one of my lesser appreciated attempts at humor.  Frying ice is what we call "boiling water" down here.  Pretty sure we'll never see eye to eye, but I've never resorted to insulting your intellect, at least not seriously.  Not sure that has much weight regardless.

[ncsurveyor]

I give Ahmadinejad the same credit you give <Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/etc>. 

There's a lot to be said for the usefulness of intuition and humor. Didn't realize it was as valueless (or distracting) as some do.

[ironglow]

    Most all of us know that Wikipedia is a "reader contributed" source, and is only as flawless as the contributor. While some contributors appear credible and we may
    source them, it is with the understanding that such is not "graven in stone".
         The publication, Haaretz, it should be noted, often has opinion writers that are as diverse and sometimes just as "hare-brained" as writers often are in our
  publications, such as the NY Times.
         An interesting article in today's Haaretz, tells how the Palestinian terror organization Hamas, is putting out disinformation that claims the Nazi "holocaust" was
  actually a "staged" event, propagated by the "Satanic" Jews ! This sounds closely akin to publications here that allow stories that claim the 9/11 destruction was a
   staged event, actually perpetrated by our "Satanic" government !

    I presume that in both cases, we are to ignore the thousands of witnesses, the vast and totally silent, conspiracy that must be maintained...and pay strict attention
     to a few, often deranged (as in the case of Hamas) hostiles with a bone to pick...

       Each has to decide for himself, the answer to Pilate's question; "what is truth ?". 

[Chilachuck]

My "anti Moslem fervor" has more to do with an understanding of exactly what Moslems mean as compared to what Westerners think they mean, and an appreciation of the double standards and slanted definitions in use.

Jews and Christians are supposed to be "protected" under Sharia law. Look into it, and you will see that it means they were given the same treatment a "good nigger" was given back in the bad old days here in the US (being beaten for fun, raped, robbed, knocked off the sidewalk, run down with a car, being burned out of house and home, etc). Churches and synagogues can not be built or repaired, and meeting to worship meant risking being raided. Bibles and the Jewish holy books are banned in many Moslem countries, and cannot be imported to most.

Christians and Jews can not testify against a Moslem in Sharia court, so they cannot bring claims against Moslems. Islam also prohibits "befriending" unbelievers, so the Moslem witnesses supporting Christians and Jews are very rare.

I have other things to do, so I'm going to have to cut this short.

People of other faiths, such as mine, are treated as unclean and to be killed upon discovery.

I intend for any religious violence in my area to involve many of those who rather dramatically stated they "love death" to achieve what they love.

Quislings assisting them will be treated the same.

[Chilachuck]

Yes, the three are supposed to be related, and are collectively called "Abrahamic religions". 

I read widely, and don't believe what I read unless it's supported by compatible evidence. I spotted that those who were not of one of the Abrahamic religions were to be enslaved, converted, or killed and investigated it as potential threat to me. This has been verified to my satisfaction.

Christians and Jews are supposed to be allowed the fourth choice of become Dhimmis by paying the Jizya, but I've read from several sources not related to one another exactly how Dhimmis are treated (thus the "good nigger" comparison).

One big thing to remember when listening to or reading something a Moslem is that what the words mean depends on who the Moslem is talking about.

If a Moslem tries to strike an unbeliever and the unbeliever blocks the blow, the unbeliever has just attacked the Moslem. We all know families like that. They try to thump you and you defend yourself, you have just attacked someone in that family. If one of them takes something from you, that is not theft. If you take it back, that is theft. And so on. That's the Islamic attitude toward outsiders.

By the way, Atheists are also to be killed, enslaved, or giving the conversion option. Saying you don't believe in any gods is regarded as an attack on Islam, punishable on the spot with death or a severe beating. Atheists have no legal protections and trying to bring charges in a Sharia country will result in death or enslavement.

If a Dhimmi tries to dodge a blow or blocks a blow, he has just "attacked" a Moslem, and forfeits all the "protection" he bought. A Dhimmi who discusses his religion has just "attacked Islam" and forfeits all protection. Of course, that "protection" was worth a word's weight in gold as Dhimmis can be beaten, robbed, killed, raped, etc in spite of what Islamic law says (recall the bit about unbelievers cannot testify in Sharia courts and how Moslems are prohibited from "befriending" unbelievers?).

Yes, from what I've read, early Islam was influenced by the Gnostics, and probably several other branches of Christianity that have since vanished, along with similar branches of Judaism. That's probably why Christians and Jews are given favored treatment, murderous oppression, instead of outright genocide.

[deltecs]

So, your point of view, is that Christianity is evil, Muslims are the true faith, and the US government only makes errors in foreign policy?  Social and political points of view change all the time according to trade, tyranny and public perception by the people.  Foreign policy must change according to those driving factors.  More people were killed on 9/11 than at Pearl Harbor.  Even at Pearl Harbor, though, most of the deaths were military.  All of the ones killed in 9/11 were civilians.   Do you think for a minute if the American people at large supported Iran, that it would be an issue in the Presidential election?  NO.  So public perception has major influence in foreign policy decisions.  The same applies to the population within Muslim countries, along with their clerics ideology, much like Rev. Wrights effect on Obama.

[flintman]

 "We have ALL come short of the GLORY of GOD"