The true Abe Lincoln

[williamlayton]

I think that you lay a lot of weight on Mr. Lincoln that is not his. This question and these problems did not come to a head during his presidency---but before.
Lincoln did, in fact, implement some laws passed before him by the House and Senate.
We place too much emphasis on the president and it is the people we elect from each state, for each state---and not only state but by regions within states--who write the laws and make the changes.
Presidents write few bills.
Now, if it is the South who is a part of all of this, who are those in the South who voted for these changes.
If you look at history you might find that they were in fact in there grabbing for the power and money more than presidents.
Old line southern Senators have historically been stronger than Governor's and wielded more power within the state.
So much for states rights.
Blessings

[Dee]

Ga.Windbreak, one must completely ignore the fact that not only did Bush PUSH the Patriot Act thru, he very recently TURNED SOCIALIST, and PUSHED THE BAIL OUT THRU. So much for W/L's theory.
Socialist Lincoln, until NOW, was the most damaging president in history. He has most likely been recently replaced with Bush. Together, they have successfully obliterated States Rights, needlessly killed thousands of Americans, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.
All we need now, are either McCain, or Obama, to finish all of the above off, and we will have a clean slate, and an enslaved population. Which ever one wins, the other has proven, will assist. JMO

[williamlayton]

The House and Senate---Democrats?---have to shoulder the blame for allowing this when they had the votes and power too prevent.
Blessings

[Ga.windbreak]

I think that you lay a lot of weight on Mr. Lincoln that is not his. This question and these problems did not come to a head during his presidency---but before.
Lincoln did, in fact, implement some laws passed before him by the House and Senate.
Blessings

If I'm wrong please show me where? No other President in our history has abused the Constitution as did Lincoln. With all due respect how can anyone who loves freedom and knows the blood and sacrifice's of our founding fathers not see the fallicy of the man. Did any good come from his course of action? Most would say yes, the slaves were freed and the Union was rejoined but at what a bloody cost in lives and in the minds of the reconquered. And I ask you this was it necessary to go to war to get these changes done? I say no, it should have NEVER happened, but the fanatics/puritans must have their blood.

It was almost 150 years ago and yet we are still separate, we are a disunion Union. You don't believe that? Well then just go look at the election before us now and look at who voted for who and which States went for which man.

Our Founders wanted a LIMITED Federal Government with strong State governments run by "The People" The people is the operative word here not The Government (and responsibility being shouldered by the people not the Government) but that all changed with Lincoln and the ILLEGAL 14th Amendment. Jefferson warned us over and over again that the very thing that happened was going to if we didn't come to an agreement that all could live with. That was/is the job of congress and the President so who else would you have me put it on the shoulders of? Buchanan, in his last speech before Congress warned that the Union could/should not be held together by the sword. Yet that is what Lincoln and his cronies did and that is why we are where we are today.

Do I love my country, with all of my heart, as I'm sure you do also. But I've seen, all to well, what a mess the federal government can make of things given the opportunity to do so.

Peace

[williamlayton]

This was the cruxt of the problem. The South wanted too say it was a number of nations and soverign, with no lasting or holding power by any other government than the state.
The Union, and Mr Lincoln, not too mention many others in all the states, disagreed and believed it Was one Nation, a Union of states under one government.
We see the outcome.
Blessings

[Ga.windbreak]

The Union, and Mr Lincoln, not too mention many others in all the states, disagreed and believed it Was one Nation, a Union of states under one government.We see the outcome.
Blessings

William there is NOTHING in the first 12 Amendments that proves that what you CLAIM to be right; is right. And even if it were that doesn't give Lincoln the right to overthrow the Constitution as he did and as you and so many here want to gloss over or act as if it didn't happen or even worse that it doesn't matter. But most of all those who were there in 1860 and had the chance and the responsibility to not let it happen and did nothing. Most did nothing cowed by Lincoln's actions and Mr. Stanton's little bell; they were the true traitors.

We didn't become what you claim until the illegal passage of the 14th as I, and others have so rightly pointed out.