What to put under a cast bullet

[Kmrere42]

Hi,



Looking for new ideas for reducing leading in cast bullets.

Most ready made cast bullets are of the non gas-check design and usually have a decent chamfer.  There are vegetable fiber wads, Ox-Yoke wonder wads and the old fashioned cereal type fillers. There is also the gas-check seated backwards first then the bullet but I am not sure that it is a good thing. 

The idea is to protect the base of the bullet and not for support of a bad casting. 

I am in process of making a home made Freechek tool and will try that, but I am not sure on how it would work on production bullets that have a large chamfer.  The thin aluminum looks like it would need a fairly square base to work properly.



Anyone have good or bad results from their experiments to post.



Paul

[blackpowderbill]

In my 45-70 when shooting BP I put a card wad and a lubed felt wad between the bullet and the powder. When I use smokeless I leave it out as I worry that the wad may migrate away from the bullet. In my .30s I gas check all bullets (lead). I tried to shoot them with out a gas check but gut almost no accuracy to speak of. My loads are light 10 to 16 gr of Unique for a 175 gr lead bullet. My large calibre bullets are lubed with a home made lube of 1 part Bees wax and 2 parts lard, The .30s are lubed with Lees Liquid Alox.

[tn_junk]

I only shoot cast bullets in straight wall cases.
I use a cardboard wad over the powder and then cream of wheat. Have no leading problems up to 2000 FPS (.357 MAX).

alan

[Molly]

Looking for new ideas for reducing leading in cast bullets.
Anyone have good or bad results from their experiments to post.

COW (Cream of Wheat) will not only stop all tendencies to lead (even with no gas check), but will also remove leading already in the bore.  Fill up case to the shoulder & neck area, top with COW, and seat the bullet.  You're done.  Simple, fast, easy & cheap. 

Molly

[woodchukhntr]

Be sure to allow for the weight of the COW or you are likely to have pressure problems.

[stimpylu32]

I've never been a fan of using any kind of filler for cast bullets , I just use the Cowboy data from the powder companies as they can do a better job of load development in their lab than I ever could in my basement , But then I have only in the last year started using COW to fireform brass . 

stimpy

[Steve P]

I have loads that I use a foam card or fiber card, but that is only to keep the powder in position to avoid position sensitivity.  I have never had leading from any of my cast bullets nor of any I purchased.  I get them sized .001 over bore diameter and use good lube.

My DW 357 MAX would sometimes get a small amount of build up on the face of the barrel.  This is between the cylinder and forcing cone and would flake off with a pocket knife or small screw driver tip.  This build up woud actually be worse shooting jacketed bullets.  Not much of a problem but I only have a .002" gap there so the cylinder would get hard to turn.  A good friend showed me it was a tiniest bit of shaving as the bullet left the cylinder.  Now I know to watch for it and clean it off with a rag after every 30-40 shots.

I have seen guys who had to buy the rod with patches made out of screen material to keep the leading out of their barrels.  A change of lube, bullet sizing, or powder usually resolved the issue.

Cream of Wheat does make for good fire forming.  I have used it many thousands of times for my wildcat brass.  Tiny amount of powder, tissue wad, COW, tissue wad.  Even these loads I work up due to pressures from COW trying to exit a bottle neck case.  I was making some 30 Bower brass from 356 Winchester brass.  Took me 4 different load combos before I got one to put a good shoulder on my brass.  I have several friends who over guestimated and blew up a few good brass.  Yes, even Cream of Wheat loads can generate too much pressure and cause gun damage or injury.  Work up carefully.

I have used Cream of Wheat for buffer in a shot shell.  I use a vibrator to get it to disperse thru the shot.  I have never used COW between powder and a solid bullet in a brass case.  Only use here is to prevent detonation.  If you happen to get detonation with COW in the case, how fast will the pressures build up then.....or should I say, how fast will the pressures blow OUT then? 

Good luck,

Steve   

[Kmrere42]

Hi,


How do the Veggy fiber wads under the bullet do?  Do they work as a gas-check under a flat base bullet or would there be leading still.


I have heard that the wad needs to be in contact with the base of the bullet otherwise there is a likely chance of ringing the chamber when the wad slams into the bullet base. 
As I understand it, the ring is caused by the sudden pressure rise as the wad acts as a piston and compresses the air just in front of it and it forms a very small area of extremely high pressure at the base of the bullet that then forces a ring to form in the chamber at that location.



Paul

[stimpylu32]

Paul

The Vegie wads will only work if you have a full case of powder to hold them in place , they do well in Black Powder loads were you are putting some compression on the powder to hold them . As for using them in a low load of Unique or other pistol powders you have no way to hold them in place .

Your best bet for loads over 1000 fps is still a gas check .

stimpy

[Lone Star]

In the 1900s the Cast Bullet Association definitively established that most all leading is cause by gas blow-by between the bullet and the bore.  Properly-loaded cast bullets have reached well over 2000 fps without a gas check and with no lube at all.  Fillers prevent leading by blocking the gas so that it cannot get by the bullet.   A properly-fitted cast bullet will not lead unless it is damaged in loading or by a poorly dimensioned barrel.  The latter is more common than many believe, particularly in revolvers.  "Protecting the bullet base" won't stop leading unless it also stops gas blow-by.  Military bullets have had exposed lead bases for over a century, yet they don't seem to lead.....


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