Author Topic: The Polygamist thing...  (Read 7463 times)

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Offline Mohawk

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2008, 09:29:04 AM »
  Ok. Can we please just get along. Everyone has made points and expressed their opinion. The matter of this topic is very complicated and will take time to resolve. Matt and Rex made good points but it is not about debate, but about protecting and defending what is right. All the State is doing is protecting the children of the facility. They are doing a good job despite the complications that are involved. When the state has to move Criminal District Judges due to the case load(these are the judical officer that says who goes on death row on capital cases) this is a odd criminal/civil matter that will take time to  sort out. Lets not fight, or cause a bad track, lets just discuss and be friends, because that is where we were before the thread ever began. Yes age can be determined and DNA only points to one person so it will be sorted out in the end and make my job easier, hopefully. I respect all you folks and just trying to simmer the boil, because friends are friends.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2008, 09:34:48 AM »
debate is good !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Mohawk

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2008, 09:47:11 AM »
 Then debate. I have said my peace.

Offline ms

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2008, 09:51:36 AM »
are we to believe you condone this kind of treatment of under age girls? REX666 your sick puppy

Offline rex6666

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2008, 09:56:10 AM »
ms
i think he is saying give the state time to sort every thing out, if their is abuse involved it will be dealt
with
Mohawk you have hit the nail on its head, keep us up to speed when possible.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2008, 09:59:01 AM »
While this is all being sorted out, I still like the idea of an expense paid round trip ticket to Texas for Matt.
 :) :)
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2008, 12:24:44 PM »
 Now if these people want to do this and the girl/women want to do this than so be it. Now if some young man in his late teens or early 20's came around asking to marry my teenage daughter I would probably have a pretty serious discussion with this young fellow and send him on his way. Now if a man in his 30's or 40's came and ask me this this fellow would end up NEVER being seen again.

  If this were a muslim/arab group, you would see the liberals coming out of the woodwork claiming infringement of their religion and cultural sensitivity.But this is a group of mainly white, kinda christian folks so they do not count. As long as these people are within the law then they should be left alone. If they are breaking the law or forcing these girls into this then yes it should be stopped, not an a basis that has condemed the whole group but on a case by case basis. If anyone has a problem with the legal age of marrage/consent that is a matter of getting a law passed.

  On a personal side I see these people as a sick bunch. I dought I'd waste my urine on one to put them out if they were on fire.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2008, 12:30:05 PM »

  On a personal side I see these people as a sick bunch. I dought I'd waste my urine on one to put them out if they were on fire.

Have you ever had the opportunity to perform fire fighting with your urine in the past and if so, what duration of time is typically required to put out a burning humane body?
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Offline Heather

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2008, 03:06:44 PM »
As many of you know I am the mother of 3 small little boys.  My purpose in life now revolves around loving, guiding, and caring for them.  I, along with their father, are responsible for providing for and raising them. There isn't a minute that passes that I am not caring for or thinking about my kids.  I worry a lot and think of the worst thinks that could happen to them and ways I could prevent or at least aide in decreasing any suffering for my children.  The thoughts of someone violating my children sexually is right up there on the top of my list of the worst thing that could ever happen to one of my children.  I and/or their father would spend the rest of our lives in prison for torture and murder.  A child abuser is the lowest form of scum in my book. 

An equally horrible and scary scenario is living in a world where someone could just come in to my home, without probable cause, without a warrant, simply on the basis of an alleged phone call, and take my children away from me and hold them for at least two months.  In the mean time the world sits by and does nothing. They don't care because they don't understand my religion.  They have jumped to conclusions based on little or no facts and I no longer have the right to remain innocent until proven guilty.  My children are gone and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

I am so lucky that I live in America where I don't have to worry about that.  I live in a country founded on religious freedom.  In my country personal liberties and the rights of citizens still mean something.  We have a judicial system in place that grants me the right to not have my home searched or property seized without a warrant or at the very least probable cause.  My government nor my fellow countrymen will  judge me or jump to conclusion about me because of my religion or differing lifestyle because all men are created equal and have right to practice any religion of their choice.  I will not be bothered at all unless there is proof or probable cause to search for proof that I have been abusing or allowing abuse to happen to my children.  If someone where to happen to come into my home and see underage pregnant girls they may want to talk to the girl to determine if abuse had occurred, but as long as my children appeared unharmed they would not have any right to arrest me or take away my children. 

The thoughts of a potentially bad showing at tomorrow nights ball game for my oldest son, worrying my youngest might get a fever in the middle of the night, the threat of natural disasters, getting ran over by a car, or possible harm from a child predator, will definitely keep me tossing and turning tonight.  Thank goodness that with everything else I have to worry about as a parent I don't have to worry about a Government with the POWER to take my boys away from me without just cause. 

Heather
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Offline Mohawk

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2008, 07:12:20 PM »
My only son is autistic. Due to the law, I myself have had to deal with this issue, so I know what I speak. I have had my habitation violated. I had a surprise visit from a CPS investigator, that without warrant, was authorized to check my fridge and cabinets, and any other thing she could find. I don't have a problem with that. BUT the person that called the complaint in, which they did not find anything because it is groundless, will face a State Jail Felony Charge and Will Do Time in Prison because they made a case of revenge. Can't give details because of legal factors but it is real. Thank God the state put a statute in place to protect the innocent.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2008, 07:17:43 AM »
Amen to what Heather said.
 This is not Russia.  How many of those children are being abused by the state of Texas and poorly trained child advocates or child advocates with agendas on the basis of a phone call and what might be? Must ALL of those children and mothers suffer? And if  being snatched away from it's mother and  grilled and poked and prodded and generally treated like some sort of side-show freak isn't tramatizing to the mother and the seperated child, please explain what is. And assurances by some child advocate or shrink or court lacky that they are being kept clean and fed doesn't change that.

Are all the women and children criminals?  To be treated this way?  Just because they are different? Just because they have no one to speak for them? 

Folks say there is no comparison to Koresh?  I'm not sure.  With Koresh, like this, the spin doctors and the talking heads, right away starting playing the "child abuse" card right away.  And in Koresh's case, he didn't live to tell his side.

Offline Dee

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2008, 02:25:05 PM »
Through DNA testing, once completed it will tell a lot of things. If a 16 yr old girl has a 2 yr old child from a 40 yr old man then you have a clear cut incident of statutory rape and sexual assault of a child. The State is acting well within its legal rights. I think it is premature to add some of the above posted comments until the investigation is completed.

agreed with most just not the method used.

I suppose there are "internet lawyers" just the same as there are, "jail house lawyers". At least it seems so here. This clear cut case of statutory rape you speak of does not exist in Texas. It is RAPE OF A CHILD. As for the sexual assault of a child, you cannot combine the two. It will be one or the other. But then again IF the parents CONSENTED to her marriage you have NOTHING AT ALL. 
All this speculation is just that. People making statements about laws AND cases they know nothing about, in states they know nothing about. I for one after 20 years of dealing with social services, look at ANYTHING they are involved with, with a junandiced eye until the REAL facts come out. I  do not agree with polygamy BUT, I do not agree with Catholicisim EITHER.
Hopefully my home state will sort this out, WITHOUT too much distortion, and every one here will put their non-applicable law books to rest. I for one will not judge these people until the ACTUAL facts are known. Until then it's beauty parlor gossip. JMO 
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Offline powderman

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2008, 03:37:55 PM »
The leader  of this group was jailed some time back, last name is Jeffs I believe. He supposedly arranged marriages for young girls and older men. They believe he has fathered over 100 children, possibly what some of the dna testing is for. Parents would bring their young daughters to him because God told him to teach them how to please a man. He's a real nutcase. If this crap was  still going on I'm glad it has been stopped. POWDERMAN.  ??? ??? ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Offline Mohawk

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2008, 04:53:07 PM »
Through DNA testing, once completed it will tell a lot of things. If a 16 yr old girl has a 2 yr old child from a 40 yr old man then you have a clear cut incident of statutory rape and sexual assault of a child. The State is acting well within its legal rights. I think it is premature to add some of the above posted comments until the investigation is completed.

agreed with most just not the method used.

I suppose there are "internet lawyers" just the same as there are, "jail house lawyers". At least it seems so here. This clear cut case of statutory rape you speak of does not exist in Texas. It is RAPE OF A CHILD. As for the sexual assault of a child, you cannot combine the two. It will be one or the other. But then again IF the parents CONSENTED to her marriage you have NOTHING AT ALL. 
All this speculation is just that. People making statements about laws AND cases they know nothing about, in states they know nothing about. I for one after 20 years of dealing with social services, look at ANYTHING they are involved with, with a junandiced eye until the REAL facts come out. I  do not agree with polygamy BUT, I do not agree with Catholicisim EITHER.
Hopefully my home state will sort this out, WITHOUT too much distortion, and every one here will put their non-applicable law books to rest. I for one will not judge these people until the ACTUAL facts are known. Until then it's beauty parlor gossip. JMO 

  You are very wrong, sir. Read the Texas Penal Code, Texas Family Code. Parental consent is only given when the marriage is deemed legal by statute, and again, for the second time, if a 16yr old girl gives birth from an adult man, consent is irrelevant if the date of birth of the child predates the legal age of the mother. A District Judge also has to approve, by signature, a underage marriage even with parental consent.  And yes sexual assault of a child is a SEPARATE statute, again, read the law before you call someone names. This is just not polite and I do this stuff for a living. The State is dealing with persons suspected of sexually assaulting children and I hope all adults that did such things face justice. The facts will come out, that is what an investigation is about, to gather facts.

Offline Dee

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #104 on: April 27, 2008, 02:05:40 AM »
Through DNA testing, once completed it will tell a lot of things. If a 16 yr old girl has a 2 yr old child from a 40 yr old man then you have a clear cut incident of statutory rape and sexual assault of a child. The State is acting well within its legal rights. I think it is premature to add some of the above posted comments until the investigation is completed.

agreed with most just not the method used.

I suppose there are "internet lawyers" just the same as there are, "jail house lawyers". At least it seems so here. This clear cut case of statutory rape you speak of does not exist in Texas. It is RAPE OF A CHILD. As for the sexual assault of a child, you cannot combine the two. It will be one or the other. But then again IF the parents CONSENTED to her marriage you have NOTHING AT ALL. 
All this speculation is just that. People making statements about laws AND cases they know nothing about, in states they know nothing about. I for one after 20 years of dealing with social services, look at ANYTHING they are involved with, with a junandiced eye until the REAL facts come out. I  do not agree with polygamy BUT, I do not agree with Catholicisim EITHER.
Hopefully my home state will sort this out, WITHOUT too much distortion, and every one here will put their non-applicable law books to rest. I for one will not judge these people until the ACTUAL facts are known. Until then it's beauty parlor gossip. JMO 

  You are very wrong, sir. Read the Texas Penal Code, Texas Family Code. Parental consent is only given when the marriage is deemed legal by statute, and again, for the second time, if a 16yr old girl gives birth from an adult man, consent is irrelevant if the date of birth of the child predates the legal age of the mother.

Take my statements into context in the way they were written, not the way you have deciphered them. I'll type slow here. I SAID "IF" the parent gave permission for the girl to be "MARRIED" prior to the marriage you have NO CASE. I said NOTHING about PRE-MARITAL SEX AND PREGNANCY.

A District Judge also has to approve, by signature, a underage marriage even with parental consent. 

I don't recall ever reading this law concerning a District Judge having to sign the approval even with parental consent. Could you site the statute please? I would be interested in seeing it.

 And yes sexual assault of a child is a SEPARATE statute, again, read the law before you call someone names.

I am glad we agree on one of the speculative points here, but as for the name calling you lost me. Are you referring to Internet lawyers, or jail house lawyer perhaps?

This is just not polite and I do this stuff for a living.

You do what "STUFF" for a living? Answer Internet questions, or investigate family code matters? I for 20 years as a Police Officer Investigator, I saw A LOT of abuse of power from Social Services, and A LOT of families disrupted and sometimes RUINED by said organizations by ACTING ON BASELESS RUMORS, which later proved to be JUST THAT! RUMORS! This entire fiasco has been ALREADY PROVEN to have been made by a "habitual" prank caller.
So with that in mind, since you SAY, that you do this for a living. Precisely what part of "THIS STUFF" do you do, as far as your living. Are you part of the Social Services Calvary, or just a paper pusher in one of their offices? Or are you even affiliated with this bunch of folks.


The State is dealing with persons suspected of sexually assaulting children and I hope all adults that did such things face justice. The facts will come out, that is what an investigation is about, to gather facts.

The fact that the State of Texas is dealing with this, does not send waves of relief though my soul, as DHS in this state has HISTORY of screwing up families. If they later find they were MISTAKEN they simply dump the mess they have created back in the lap of the family they were INVESTIGATING and walk away. The large cities in the State of Texas are even notoriously WORSE, often placing the children in homes with a much WORSE environment they claim to have taken the from.

Now to address you statement of "that is what an investigation is about". I would wager I have done FAR MORE investigations than you have, and gathering "facts" is truly what they are about. I have seen very few in my 20 years of service that were done ACCURATELY by DHS that were even close to being reasonably accurate, and fair concerning everyone involved, ESPECIALLY THE PARENTS. Most of these so called "investigations" are preformed by "investigators" that have no education in conducting such "investigations". Many have Ass. Degrees in everything from water coloring to music with no back ground in Family Law, by the way, which is well known to be a mess in Texas and many other states. Many Family Law statutes are a bizarre screwed up mess.

I will STILL CONTEND, that all this banter is "Beauty Parlor Gossip" as everyone is commenting on information gleaned from the NEWS, which one has to be broad minded to even use the word "news" when one even refers to them as News Stations. They are more on the order of "Propaganda Distributors".

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Offline Mohawk

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #105 on: April 27, 2008, 06:16:26 AM »
  I was preparing a long, drawn out answer, but I think we will have to agree to disagree so didn't bother.

The statute you ask for is below. One clarification, parental consent is swore to the County Clerk, unless parent is absent then it goes to the judge. But the simple fact of no marriage license is enough to nullify a husband/wife relationship. And as you'll read an informal marriage (Common Law) can not exist when one person is a minor. I'm just curious why you get so upset when people have knowledge of the law?

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/FA/content/htm/fa.001.00.000002.00.htm


Offline powderman

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #106 on: April 27, 2008, 01:45:23 PM »
At Jeffs trial it was said that his control was so great that he even had sex with other members wives and daughters with the husbands blessing because they believed it was commanded by God. That is a sick cult, and I believe that there will be a lot of things come out. It's dangerous for a man to have power like that. POWDERMAN.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Mohawk

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #107 on: April 27, 2008, 02:55:08 PM »
  The depth of family law and damage done never ceases to amaze me. I was involved in a case where a female was seeking a Protective Order against her husband based on accusation of domestic violence. By 3/4th the way through the local Sheriff's Department was on the defendant's side. The ADA, the females attorney for the state, had remaining witnesses and time left on the clock that would have testified with out cross due to the defendant's attorney being out of time. The ADA did not call anymore witnesses. The protective order was denied due to the complaint, and affidavit, being falsified by the complainant. I also supplied evidence that the complainant was hiding an affair to the point to where her new "boyfriend" testified against her and turned dime that here alleged injuries were self inflicted which was also testified to by several rebuttal witnesses. And due to documents I had sequestered through a Business Records Affidavit there was even proof that the complainant's dates and times of alleged abuse were grossly inaccurate. Statements were given from a witness  that the female applicant was after Crime Victim Services money and thought the Protective Order would give leverage in the upcoming civil case involving custody of the children. How she was not indicted on 2 counts of aggravated perjury is beyond me. And the defendant, who was a private citizen, did the entire investigation via internet and library, he could not afford private investigator services. His attorney presented the evidence, interviewed the witnesses, and filed the proper court documents, but ALL the information he was given was done off of one computer and public resources available to all citizens.  Who suffers? The children.  Working in Child Support Enforcement it is easy to see that kids need protection.

Offline victorcharlie

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #108 on: April 27, 2008, 04:40:47 PM »
As many of you know I am the mother of 3 small little boys.  My purpose in life now revolves around loving, guiding, and caring for them.  I, along with their father, are responsible for providing for and raising them. There isn't a minute that passes that I am not caring for or thinking about my kids.  I worry a lot and think of the worst thinks that could happen to them and ways I could prevent or at least aide in decreasing any suffering for my children.  The thoughts of someone violating my children sexually is right up there on the top of my list of the worst thing that could ever happen to one of my children.  I and/or their father would spend the rest of our lives in prison for torture and murder.  A child abuser is the lowest form of scum in my book. 

An equally horrible and scary scenario is living in a world where someone could just come in to my home, without probable cause, without a warrant, simply on the basis of an alleged phone call, and take my children away from me and hold them for at least two months.  In the mean time the world sits by and does nothing. They don't care because they don't understand my religion.  They have jumped to conclusions based on little or no facts and I no longer have the right to remain innocent until proven guilty.  My children are gone and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

I am so lucky that I live in America where I don't have to worry about that.  I live in a country founded on religious freedom.  In my country personal liberties and the rights of citizens still mean something.  We have a judicial system in place that grants me the right to not have my home searched or property seized without a warrant or at the very least probable cause.  My government nor my fellow countrymen will  judge me or jump to conclusion about me because of my religion or differing lifestyle because all men are created equal and have right to practice any religion of their choice.  I will not be bothered at all unless there is proof or probable cause to search for proof that I have been abusing or allowing abuse to happen to my children.  If someone where to happen to come into my home and see underage pregnant girls they may want to talk to the girl to determine if abuse had occurred, but as long as my children appeared unharmed they would not have any right to arrest me or take away my children. 

The thoughts of a potentially bad showing at tomorrow nights ball game for my oldest son, worrying my youngest might get a fever in the middle of the night, the threat of natural disasters, getting ran over by a car, or possible harm from a child predator, will definitely keep me tossing and turning tonight.  Thank goodness that with everything else I have to worry about as a parent I don't have to worry about a Government with the POWER to take my boys away from me without just cause. 

Heather


I love you Heather.

My problem is really about a disregard for due process of law.

It seems to me the 4th amendment might have been violated at the very least.

I to have 2 daughters and 6 grandchildren and can think of nothing more evil than molesting a child.

So, we have a tip, from out of state which the cops use as probable cause.  They go to a judge and obtain a valid warrant on the tip.  The cops search for 7 days, ride off with 400 children and arrest no one.

Any one remember what happen over at Duke University regarding several members of the Duke LaCross team?

I think everyone here wants to see abused children protected.  However, the heavy handedness of this is what bothers me and smells of a modern day witch hunt.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline williamlayton

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #109 on: April 27, 2008, 07:36:48 PM »
The evidence found have led to charges.
If there is evidence and charges what does the person who made the calls have too do with it.
This group has been under investigation for over two years.
In two years how much abuse has happened which can never be repaired?
I can appreciate the thoughts about legal rights but these children have legal rights which were not being enforced by the parents or the church.
I do not think you can not justify any use of any means too protect these children.
I AM prejudiced against Warren Jeffs who is convicted in court of numerous violations of law.
No Church who would advocate any practice which would allow these children to be treated as cattle for sexual pleasure and reproduction is a Christian Church.
Blessings
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Offline Oldtimer

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #110 on: April 28, 2008, 03:03:42 AM »
As Dee can attest, there is never a good domestic situation for anyone to intervene.  My wife has worked in the domestic relations field all her career.  I have been involved in cases in my work in the health department and in EMS.  I have had a woman who had just shot her boyfriend plead with us to help him, but block our access.  I have looked up from a man's guts coming out of the shotgun wound to see the perpretator standing next to another man holding the weapon (he was an off-duty deputy, but I didn't know that, and was about to run over my partner out a side door).  I have had to go to court nine times to testify on the presence of a bacterium in a father's throat that had nothing to do with his daughter's gonorrhea infection, because the social workers had no understanding of STD's. 

Some abuse is a shot time thing, other times it is chronic.  Some situations allow for an almost institutional atmosphere of abuse to continue.  My wife has seen cases in a religious community that is close-knit and that holds itself apart from larger society.  This group is living in the middle of the public square compared to the group in Texas.  If a bad streak gets started in such a group, there is usually nothing to stop it, as has been shown in groups as large as The Peoples Temple. 

As to outcomes of these cases, even the successful ones have casualities, often among the victims.  I have had to deal with victims who were ostracized by the rest of the family because the crime came to light through them.  There is a mainline fundamentalist church near where I live that allows a woman convicted of sex crimes with young boys to continue to work with children, because her family is a major contributor to this church.  I am not a member of that congregation, but I have a number of friends who go there, and they have had to wrestle with their faith in the face of this.  I wold hope that this woman does not re-offend, but the risks are so large, and the repercussions of her doing so would affect the rest of the lives of the younger generation at that church. 

The issue of sexual abuse is difficult for most people to deal with as it stands some of our most important beliefs on their heads.  Heather eloquently testifies to the love of a devoted mother.  Your children are specially blessed to have you.  To hear another woman, one in our area, who made her daughter have sex with two other men, so that they could get them to kill her husband (and the gilr's father), insist that she is also a good mother, is monstrous.  Sadly, such is the world we live in.  Thanks be to God that the Heathers of the world vastly outnumber the others.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #111 on: April 28, 2008, 03:18:53 AM »
If in fact the crimes listed here are true (and i have no idea if they are or are not ) then it should be checked out !
I for one do not wish to give up anymore freedoms . That said it is important to work with in the limits of the law . We already know that people get hurt when freedom exist . If the govt. starts deciding who and when marriage is ok we are in trouble ! So when does child abuse start in a case like that ? Is it the same for all people ? I know 30 year olds not ready for marriage .
Let the police do their job , when they finish then we can know the whole story and credit their effort or condemn it , but lets hope justice gets served and no mistakes are made !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline rex6666

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #112 on: April 28, 2008, 04:13:32 AM »
Thank you williamlayton, shootall, oldtimer, Mohawk, heather and powder man, you all have made some sense of this. Their is no way this will be all good for everyone, IF ALL ACUSATIONS ARE PROVEN, the
children will still suffer the loss of their parents, the mothers think they are doing the right thing
because they also love their children, I feel they have been brain washed from the time they were children.
the men have been brain washed to some extint. some where this started with a very strong leader of
 people and some, IMO some very weak followers that were in need of a leader. This is what happens
in most of these compound situations i have read about, that is one of the reasons for the lock up
on one gets to go out to see the outside world. I feel that the young children can be helped but above the ages of 12-13 they have already been a long way down the road. This is a sad situation no matter
how it turns out.
Rex
GOD GUNS and GUTS MADE AMERICA GREAT

Texas is good for men and dogs, but it is hell on women and horses.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #113 on: April 28, 2008, 05:29:28 AM »
This term "brainwashed" is getting kinda tedious. A child raised in a Roman Catholic home, a Christian home, an Amish Community could be said to be "brainwashed" from the time he was born.  No one knows how the ranch children were being treated nor trained.
We only have the words of the spin doctors and the talking heads. And their only concerns, ONLY CONCERNS, are to justify what they are doing and to keep their ratings up.
This Jeffs guy may be the most terrible person in the world, but that doesn't justify what they are doing to those kids and their mothers.

Offline rex6666

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #114 on: April 28, 2008, 06:23:17 AM »
ok-ok
i see now that it is Me i must be the problem every thing I say is wrong.
This GUY Jeff's is behind this compound and has been imprisoned because of his treatment of others
in other compounds. what makes you think this one is different?
I am sorry that every thing I say offends some of you, YES YOU COULD SAY EVERY CHILD IN THE WORLD
IS BRAINWASHED " IF YOU WANT TO" BUT WERE THEY LOCKED UP AND NEVER GIVEN AN OTHER CHOICE. See you are getting pretty tedious to me you are so afraid these children will get a better chance
at life. What difference do it make we are all going to die soon because their will be no honey bees,
maybe you should be working on that, and saving the world.
BEEMAN i will put you on my list to apologize to when the state of TX is found to be wrong
Rex
GOD GUNS and GUTS MADE AMERICA GREAT

Texas is good for men and dogs, but it is hell on women and horses.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #115 on: April 28, 2008, 09:07:26 AM »
One of the news story's I seen on this, made the comment, there were NO picture's of Christ, and very few cross's in any of the rooms the children slept in or played in. Just picture's or this Warren Jeff guy. Now, I'm going to show my ignorance of the Bible here. I'll be the first one to admit, I've never read it end to end. Far from it! It was interpreted by man, from God. So I take it with a grain of salt, and try and figure out what God meant, not the interpretation somebody copied down on scrolls 2000 years ago.
Somewhere in the Bible, it says go forth and multiply. But I don't think that means go out and get 10 wives, and spit kids out like a Labrador retriever. Could somebody with more Bible knowedge, possibly tell me, just where in the Bible it says you can/should do this.
And as far as what the Texas legal system has done, my comment what took them so long! We're not talking about one child being abused here. How many times in the last 20-30 years, some poor child was RETURNED
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline gypsyman

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2008, 09:17:53 AM »
(sorry, hit the wrong key, let me finish my comment) How many times has a child been returned to abusive parents, step parents or guardians. In this case there are hundreds. Religious freedom, does not give the right to abuse,physical or sexual. Or brain washing. Texas should have done something about this long ago. This is not an individuals rights being violated. This is a case of massive abuse. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline myronman3

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2008, 09:23:59 AM »
this all aside...whatever your opinion is......

rex,  generally, i like you.   we may not agree on this.   i do have to say though, your "invitation" to matt is WAY out of line.  disagree all ya want,  debate all ya want,  i know it can be frustrating.   i know you are a reasonable guy, and most times we see eye to eye.   just because a guy has a different view point than you i dont think that kind of stuff is called for.   

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2008, 09:30:09 AM »
where exactly do you say abuse starts and punishment for bad behavior end ?
where does teaching stop and brain washing begin ?
religion can guide every aspect of marriage for its followers but what age they marry ?
I guess i see a very complex thing happening here am i the only one ?
not many years ago a man in this country could beat his child and wife it was his right . Yes it is changing but not as fast as some want .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Polygamist thing...
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2008, 09:31:22 AM »
and if you want to see brain washing check out the public school nearest you one day !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !