Busta: Have ya tryed BH209 in your Nef yet?

[Buckhammer74]

I read your reports on MM, awesome shooting out of that Knight!

I am real curious how well it will work with the Nef primer carriers. If you could find the time to stuff a few loads down your Nef and post results ,I would really appreciate it.

My local shop will be getting it in soon ($33.00 10oz OUCH!) so I put a container on hold to try.

Very eager to find out if the plug must be converted or not.

Thanks,
Buckhammer

[Busta]

I shot 3 shots out my garage door one day that it was raining cats and dogs. I was using the .25 ACP breech plug though, and it went bang all three times without any hesitation. I was just shooting at a puddle in front of my backstop, so I don't have a clue how it groups, it is MOP (Minute Of Puddle) though. Toby shot some out of a Sidekick and has the results posted on his site. I'll bet it will eat up the orange carriers in short order though. I will try to shoot it sometime soon, but have to work on a turkey load and my grass is growing like a weed. The grass is a 3-1/2 hour job, not including the trimming. I'll try to squeeze it in somewhere. I take it you mean with the orange primer carriers?

Scroll down to sidekick.
http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics2.html

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/

[Keith Lewis]

Busta: Interested in what primer in the .25ACP. I have it for my Huntsman .50 as well as the standard carrier breechplug. When I bought the rifle used it did not have any breechplug so I bought both.  I have seen the statement that the BH209 will not work with the small rifle primers. Obviously that is not the case or at least not the total answer.

[burntmuch]

Buckhammer wheres your local shop at? I work in SE michigan. Im wanting to pick some up 

[Busta]

Busta: Interested in what primer in the .25ACP. I have it for my Huntsman .50 as well as the standard carrier breechplug. When I bought the rifle used it did not have any breechplug so I bought both.  I have seen the statement that the BH209 will not work with the small rifle primers. Obviously that is not the case or at least not the total answer.

Keith,

Just used the standard CCI 400 Small Rifle Primers I had in my .25 ACP brass, instant ignition. I was only using 80 grains B209 and T/C Cheapshots for my experiment. Will get some Small Rilfe MAGNUM Primers soon, there is absolutely no doubt they will set it off since I did it with the standards. I just don't know what it will perform like when it gets down below freezing, but I'm thinking the MAGNUMS should work in all seasons.

#11 primers do not git-r-dun, all hang fires. I am done testing with those.

[Buckhammer74]

Buckhammer wheres your local shop at? I work in SE michigan. Im wanting to pick some up 

Johnsons north side of Adrian,MI

They said they would have it soon, whatever soon means. I have to get out the door right now or I would give you their #.

Busta,

Yes, I was referring to the orange primer carriers. Look forward to your report.

Thanks,
Buckhammer

[millertime]

Just wondering Busta if you have tried any conicals over 350 grain with the 209 ? I see the manufacturer recommends not shooting anything over 350 grains.. Is this because it burns faster than Pyrodex? I know you are a fan of the Bullshop and No Excuses heavier conicals so figured you may have tried them. I shoot the 370 grain Maxiballs and am temped to try these out with 90 grains of 209 once I get my hands on some.

Also have you tried the orange primer disks or just the .25 APC ? I am also curious on how they will stand up.

Even though the 209 is made in Canada I have yet to find a suppiler. Seems only places that I have found that are stocking it yet is in the U.S.

[Busta]

Sorry guys, I have not tried the NEF with the 209 carriers or with conicals yet. I have been working 8 days a week for the last month. Tomorrow is my birthday, so I took this weekend off. My kids have something secretive planned for tomorrow, so maybe by late Sunday, weather permitting. I still have to get out there after a big ole gobbler that wants to come to dinner too. Sure would be nice to be retired, but unfortunately I have several years yet to go.

I'll try to git-r-dun by Memorial Day, but no promises.

This is what 80 grains BlackMag'3 and 460 grain No Excuses does to primer carriers with Win 209 primers. I kinda suspect that BH209, also being a progressive powder may do the same thing. They do warn about not going over 350 grain bullets at the moment, but I'm sure they will do more testing before publishing pet loads.

80 gr BM'3, 460 grain No Excuses, Winchester 209 primers.

[Buckhammer74]

Well I finally shot BH209 through my Nef with orange primer carriers. The only thing I can say is that I am VERY disappointed.

I started out by just trying to get on paper, as this was the first time I have shot the gun since getting the barrel from the accessory program.

I shot a total of 8 times, the first six went off with no problems, the last two were hang fires. I did this a couple of weeks ago.

Today I went out and shot again with even worse results

5 shots w/3 hangfires

Whats the deal?

Are the primer carriers the problem? The container says to used a sealed breachplug, but Toby doesnt say anything about not using the OPC's.

Well I guess I gotta make my own carrierless plug.

 I am going to grind down the top of the plug until I get level with the flashhole, then I bought a 1/4 in ss coupling nut that I am going to ream out with a round file enough to hold the primer then cut to length and tig weld on. Hopefully this will do the trick.

Busta,

I now know what the OPC's do, but could you experiment more with the 25acp just in case I gotta go that route?

Thanks

[Busta]

Sorry I didn't get to it before now Buckhammer. I finally get a weekend off that I can actually do some shooting. I hope the weather cooperates. I was planning on wringing out the Huntsman with the .25 ACP plug and the OPC's, but after your report, I just may save myself the headache with the OPC's. How did they hold up to the pressure? If they look like mine above after the BM'3, please post a pic if you can. I may need to get some small rifle MAGNUM primers for the .25 ACP, the standard ones worked at least three times in a row.

If someone would make a carrier-less 209 plug for the NEF's, they would sell like crazy now that BH209 is out. I figured the carriers would be just about worthless with BH209, they allow just too much blow-by and pressure to escape.

Thanks for the report, and the saved aggravation. I'll do my best to git-r-dun with the .25 ACP plug this weekend. I got a purple dinosaur to kill this weekend with one of my Whites too.

[Buckhammer74]

Busta,

My primers didnt break like the ones in your pic, but the center did lift considerably. I have a digital camera but do not know how to post pics.

I asked a guy who works in the tool room where I work and he said that he will put my plug on a surface grinder to remove the lip then tig weld the ss coupling nut on. I am going to measure the distance from the flash hole to where the primer sits in the carrier and cut the nut slightly longer then I need. After he welds it on I will rat tail the threads to fit the primer,then do final fitting by hand. I would just drill the threads out with a 1/4 bit, but I measured a primer with calipers and the diameter is 24.4in  is that too much slop? What is the ID of a breech plug that takes 209's? If you could measure one of yours I would appreciate it.

If this works, I will have solved the carrier problem and the wrench problem. I just hope he is able to weld the nut on straight enough.

Thanks,
Buckhammer

[Busta]

Buckhammer,

I only have one 209 plug with an internal pocket, and unfortunately it is slightly oval shaped. It measures from .2415" to .2445", dang thing is .003" out of round. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. The primers do enter easily until they get to the wider portion part way up, then they sort of snap lock themselves int to it. Can't pull them out by hand without the bolt adapter.

Here is the plug.



I did a review of the Huntsman yesterday, with both .25 ACP Plug and 209 Plug. Unfortunately I could sense a slight hesitation with the .25 ACP Plug on the bench that was not noticeable shooting off hand that day in the rain.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,145316.0.html

The good news is the 209 primer carriers worked and did not blow the primers with up to 300 grain saboted bullets. It did wash away (gas cut) .010" worth of plastic off the business end of the carrier though. May try them with 460 grain conicals later, that will be the same test as above.

Here is what it looked like after 9 shots. And the primers.

[Buckhammer74]

Busta,

Thanks for the measurements. In my last post I meant .2445 not 24.4. I suspected that the plug hole would measure dead on with the primer diameter, drlling with not be an option I will have to hand fit it with a file.

I also thought of buying a standard 209 plug from another manufacturer to cut and weld to the ground flat NEF plug. Wouldnt have to worry about the hole diameter that way.

When I decide how I am gonna do it Ill post results.

In the mean time, Im anxious to see how the mag rifle primers workout.

Thanks again,

Buckhammer