9/11 Conspriracy, NOT.

[deltecs]

Bin Laden's Deputy Says Iran Trying to Undermine Al Qaeda
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Fox News

CAIRO, Egypt —  Al Qaeda's No. 2 leader issued a new audiotape Tuesday accusing Shiite Iran of spreading a conspiracy theory about who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks to discredit the power of the Sunni terrorist network.

Ayman al-Zawahri, Usama bin Laden's deputy, has stepped up his denunciations of Iran in recent messages in part to depict Al Qaeda as the Arabs' top defense against the Persian nation's rising power in the Middle East.

The increasing enmity toward Iran is a notable change of rhetoric from al-Zawahri, who in the past rarely mentioned the country — apparently in a hopes he would be able to forge some sort of understanding with Tehran based on their common rivalry with the United States. Iran has long sought to distance itself from Al Qaeda.

"Al-Zawahri wanted to work with Iran, but he's deeply disappointed that Iran has not cooperated with Al Qaeda," said Rohan Gunaratna, a terrorism expert and author of "Inside Al Qaeda: The Global Network of Terror."

So now, al-Zawahri "wants to appeal to the anti-Shiite, anti-Iran sentiments in the Arab and Muslim world," said Gunaratna, head of the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore.
Al-Zawahri appeared intent on exploiting widespread worry in the Arab world over Iran's influence, particularly in Iraq, to garner support for Al Qaeda. At the same time, he sought to denigrate Iran's ally Hezbollah, which has gained some popularity even among Sunnis in the region for its fight against Israel.

Al-Zawahri's comments came in a two-hour audio posted on an Islamic militant Web site, the second message in weeks in which he answered hundreds of questions sent to the site by Al Qaeda sympathizers and others.

The question-and-answer campaign is a sign of the terrorist network's sophistication in its use of the Web. They show Al Qaeda can post frequent messages from its leaders while keeping in touch with its popular base — all while the leaders remain in hiding, presumably on the Afghan-Pakistan frontier.

The Web is a key tool of Al Qaeda's central leadership to inspire and direct sympathizers at a time when some terrorism experts question how much control they have over Islamic militants. Al Qaeda branches in Iraq and Afghanistan are believed to have close ties with the network's core, but little is known about its level of control elsewhere.

The authenticity of the audio could not be independently confirmed. But the voice sounded like past audios from al-Zawahri, and the posting where it was found bore the logo of Al-Sahab, Al Qaeda's media arm.

Al-Zawahri spoke on a wide range of topics in Tuesday's message. He told a female questioner there were no women in the ranks of Al Qaeda, but praised wives of mujahedeen for their "heroic role in taking care of their homes and children amid the trials of exile."

Female suicide bombers have carried out numerous attacks in Iraq, some of them believed to be by Al Qaeda's branch in the country. Al-Zawahri appeared to mean that no women were among the terrorist network's core leadership.

Al-Zawahri even addressed global warming, saying it showed "how criminal, brutal and greedy the Western Crusader world is, with America at the top."

He predicted that global warming "would make the world more sympathetic to and understanding of the Muslims' jihad (holy war) against the aggressor America."

But in many of his answers, al-Zawahri went out of his way to criticize Iran. He said the Iraqi insurgent umbrella group led by Al Qaeda, called the Islamic State of Iraq, is "the primary force opposing the Crusaders (the United States) and challenging Iranian ambitions" in Iraq.

One questioner asked about the theory that has circulated in the Middle East and elsewhere that Israel was behind the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Al-Zawahri accused Hezbollah's Al-Manar television of starting the rumor. "The purpose of this lie is clear — (to suggest) that there are no heroes among the Sunnis who can hurt America as no else did in history. Iranian media snapped up this lie and repeated it," he said.

"Iran's aim here is also clear — to cover up its involvement with America in invading the homes of Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq," he added. Iran cooperated with the United States in the 2001 U.S. assault on Afghanistan that toppled Al Qaeda's allies, the Taliban.

Al Qaeda has previously claimed responsibility for the Sept. 11 attacks.

In an audiotape last week, al-Zawahri denounced what he called Iran's expansionist plans, saying Tehran aims to annex southern Iraq and Shiite areas of the eastern Arabian Peninsula as well as strengthen ties to its followers in southern Lebanon. He warned that if Iran achieves its goals, it will "explode the situation in an already exploding region."

The rhetoric is a stark change for al-Zawahri, who in the past did not seek to exploit Shiite-Sunni tensions. When the former head of Al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was waging a campaign of suicide bombings against Shiites in Iraq, al-Zawahri sent messages telling him to stop, fearing it would hurt Al Qaeda's image.

Gunaratna said the change in tone could be because of Al Qaeda's failure to win the release of Al Qaeda figures detained by Iran since the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, including Al Qaeda security chief Saif al-Adel and two of bin Laden's sons.

Gunaratna said that up to 200 Al Qaeda figures and their families are under house arrest in Iran and that Tehran has rejected Al Qaeda attempts to negotiate their release.

Al Qaeda doesn't have the strength to launch attacks in Iran, but it intends to do so "in the future," he said. "If Al Qaeda becomes strong in Iraq ... Iran believes Al Qaeda in Iraq could become a major threat."

  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352183,00.html

Zawahri in this tape is antagonizing his Muslim countrymen by accusations of undermining Al Quada'a involvement in 9/11.  So much for any US government conspriracy, with cooperation with Al Quada, and this tape actually exonerates any complicity by Israel.  I wonder how, and what, the conspiracy theorists are going to expouse now.  Any logical person could not believe that the US government had anything to do with 9/11, in light of this new tape.  It defies logic, to presume any scenario, in which jet liners without passengers flew into the world trade centers to just cover up any monetary corruption, let Al Quada openly cheer and applaud it efforts and take the blame, then to isolate its Muslim countrymen by criticizing Iran, as aiding and abetting the theory.  I bet the theorists, will have some slick and convenient answer to Zawahri that blames Bush and the government.  The continuation of this lie does just what the Muslims want, create a divided people, so they can be conquered.  I really wonder now, who is the real enemy.  Those that performed the hienous acts, or those who try to blame their own government.  Who will bet that no appologies will be forthcoming from these conspiracy theorists, as to being wrong in their presumptions and using slanted criteria, to derive their conclusions?  I bet none will.


 

[nilescoyote]

And now the real question.... Is Bin Laden still on the US pay roll....

[Perkins]

deltecs,

what you post is b.s.

here a few un-answerde questions:
-why did no jew come to work on september 11 ?
-why did the "attacks" happen at 8:30 am when only a few people have been at work?
-where did the plane go that "hit" the pentagon?
-why did the tower collapse from the ground up?
-don't you know that the only state profiting from this "attack" is israel?
-who controls the media, money, oil and us government?

[deltecs]

deltecs,

what you post is b.s.

here a few un-answerde questions:
-why did no jew come to work on september 11 ?
-why did the "attacks" happen at 8:30 am when only a few people have been at work?
-where did the plane go that "hit" the pentagon?
-why did the tower collapse from the ground up?
-don't you know that the only state profiting from this "attack" is israel?
-who controls the media, money, oil and us government?

You have all the right to think the way you want.  I have the same right to disagree.  I do not believe from extensive research into 9/11 facts, as I've found them, to dispute the veracity of a terrorist attack on 9/11.  I have found questions that were not answered to my complete satisfaction, but that does not mean any conspiracy exists just to postulate these answers.   And I watched the twin towers collapse in live action.  They did not collapse from the ground up.  The upper floors collapsed in a cascade toward the ground.

[deltecs]

As moderator of this topic on GBO, I will not respond to baiting on other posts,. similar to this post in other topics against GBO rules.  I quoted a news article under the topic.  I expressed my personal opinion on this article.  I will not argue, debate, or respond to any baiting regarding my personal opinion in this topic forum due moderator status.  I've expressed my personal beliefs with documentation on this subject in other posts, which support my conclusions that differs from others unnamed.  I will not subject myself to insinuendos and allegations in a forum, which I cannot, in good conscience defend within the rules, as I've agreed too.  I understand a certain amount of leeway is necessary for informed and educated people to convey their opinions.  I may have exceeded my status as to the topic of this thread as moderator and subject to criticism regarding it.  However, none of the subsequent posts warrant personal attacks on my posts herein, as being relevant to the subject, topic, or any other substantiating facts except to disagree with my opinion and make personal remarks against my opinion on current news articles. 

TM7  He has never answered or responded to questions about the freefall collapse of #7, the Solomon bldg.

  Neither has anyone else, except conjecture and unsubstantiated theories that might explain the question posed.  I quoted a source that admits guilt, then and now, that explains tower #7, the World Trade Center, Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania.  It is up to others to prove that this evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, is false and contradictory.  When others present, facts and not conjecture that some others have admitted guilt contrary to terrorist Muslims, then I will freely admit I was wrong and apologize for my ignorance.  I will not be baited into discussions in topics in which I moderate.

[Graybeard]

For the record Perkins was banned from this site a few days ago. He clearly does not belong here and cannot follow site rules so is no longer among us. The post here is not what got him canned so I left it standing but he is not among us to comment further so there is really no need to reply to him or his post here.

Posting a thread quoting an article is not baiting it is merely giving folks an opportunity to reply as they wish to it. So long as you stick to comments about the posts and not make attacks on individual GBO Members and do not get into name calling of each other the comments are welcome even if they do not agree with my own views or the views of the majority here.

[ironglow]

   Reply #1 was quite interesting:   "Is Bin Laden still on the US payroll ?"

   ..Sounds eerily similar to the age old question; " Have you stopped beating your wife yet ?"

[billy_56081]

BOY OH BOY, Jessie Ventura, now there is a credible source. He is still the biggest joke here in MN.

[ironglow]

  Jesse may heve been struck a bit too hard on his head during some of his genuinely hazardous adventures..before he became governor.
     Perhaps he is a full general in the "tin hat legions"...

                I honestly believe that the necessary elements to pull off a 9/11 "conspiracy"were an impossible trick. I-beams cut
  into 30 ft sections, explosive charges planted throughout the twin towers and several other buildings.
   All this had to be done in the presence of 50,000 office workers and who knows how many hundred maintenance and SECURITY
  personnel !
  Did security not see the thousands of charges placed in thousands of critical spots over at least several days ? ..Or did they recognize demolition
  charges for what they were and willingly sacrifice themselves "for the good of a govt conspiracy" ?
      ..And the airliners..did the Muslim terrorists "cooperate" with the govt..or were they forced into their suicidal task ?...Or  were the airliners
   that hundreds of thousands saw fly into the towers.. non-existant ?
  The airliner that went down in a PA cornfield while many on the plane were saying their goodbyes to loved ones..was that just a paper kite ?

   The Airliner that flew into the Pentagon..was it nothing but a "mirage" ?

  Sorry, the conspiracy thing just doesn't "hold water"...

[deltecs]

I percieve a disturbing view regarding the conspriracy theorists on 9/11 issue.  From the many posters who believe a conspriracy exists, it is also obvious that most of these posters are of libertarian philosophy.  Now we have a former libertarian governor spouting his views, which mirror the posts here.  Is this a concerted effort by the Libertarian Party to incite division and anti Republican philosophy in order to gain status as a major political party?  This question must be asked, in light of the determined efforts of people who do not believe Muslim terrorists crashed planes into the World Trade Center.  The evidence of a potential Libertarian movement is just as valid as the conspiracy theory it suggests.  It makes me wonder just how far this propaganda extends?  Are we looking at another, hidden, NWO? 

[deltecs]

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

[billy_56081]

Be careful in your mid summers night dream while wearing your tinfoil hat, its thunderstorm season and it's no conspiracy that you will attract lightning.

[CCW.40]

1st of all I am shocked that intelligent(?) people actually think there was/is a conspiracy! This was an attack on our way of life. In their world the discussion we are having is not possible. WHY? Because we are are talking negatively about the ruling party. Right about now you should be hearing your door being smashed in. Wait......NO? Imagine that..... 2nd of all, any engineers, structural or otherwise here? Like many here I have read everything I could get my hands on about that terrible day. I fail to find PLAUSIBLE evidence that would support a conspiracy by the government I worked for. Perhaps I am biased because of my service but I promise you if I found ANYTHING to support my governments involvment in that horrific day I would be screaming like an 8 year old at an ice cream truck thats rolling by. The sooner that the populace realizes that we are in a war for our beliefs, the sooner we will be able to get past the hyperbole of a conspiracy.

P.S. I take back the (?), I know from reading posts that everyone here is intelligent. 

[deltecs]

Guilty plea on transatlantic bomb plotFrom correspondents in London
July 15, 2008 03:50am
Article from: Agence France-PresseFont size: + -

THREE British Muslims accused of plotting suicide attacks on transatlantic flights pleaded guilty in the UK today to conspiring to cause explosions.

Abdulla Ahmed Ali, 27, Assad Sarwar, 28, and Tanvir Hussain, 27, made their pleas as their trial at the top-security Woolwich Crown Court in south-east London was drawing to a close.

The trio and two other defendants, Ibrahim Savant, 27, and Umar Islam, 30, also pleaded guilty to conspiring to cause public nuisance by publishing videos threatening suicide bomb attacks.

But a jury must still decide if the five men and three other defendants were guilty of conspiring to commit mass murder by smuggling home-made liquid bombs onto passenger jets.

The defendants, all from in and around London, deny two charges of conspiracy to murder between January 1 and August 11, 2006.

The eight, whose arrest prompted tough limits on liquids in hand baggage on planes, targeted seven flights from London's Heathrow airport to New York, Washington, Chicago, San Francisco, Toronto and Montreal, the jury has heard.

They aimed to use hydrogen peroxide liquid explosives injected into the base of plastic soft drinks bottles to cause "a civilian death toll from an act of terrorism on an almost unprecedented scale'', prosecutor Peter Wright said.

They were "not long off'' putting their plan into action and had talked of up to 18 suicide bombers targeting seven, or even more flights operated by United Airlines, American Airlines and Air Canada, he said.

Summing up the prosecution case today, Wright said the eight accused wanted to achieve "immortality'' and be "lionised'' by other Islamic extremists for a deadly attack which would "shock the world''.

"You can be sure of the involvement of each of these men in a plot to murder as many civilian passengers as possible upon as many civilian aircraft as possible,'' he told jurors.

"And that some of these men were prepared to lose their life in achieving it whilst others were prepared to facilitate them in doing so in pursuit of a common goal.

"Each was prepared to kill and to do so on a wholly indiscriminate basis, irrespective of age, belief, sex and to do so without the slightest blink of an eye.''

Wright said the coordinated attacks were intended to "strike a blow on behalf of radicalised Islamists the world over''.

In their defence, Ali and Sarwar said they had planned to record a documentary highlighting injustices against Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon.

Those who recorded the videos said they were acting the role of violent hate-filled extremists.

The jury is expected to retire next week.

Notice this news article is not from American media, US government news, or relationship to any conspriracy theory regarding 9/11.  It does have nexus to radical Islamists targeting western, and especially American targets, through terrorism without regard to sex, age or any other distinguishing characteristic.  If 9/11 was not committed by terrorists, does anyone believe these men would be in the position, they are?  If one does believe 9/11 was committed by Islamic terrorists, further atrocities in one upmanship attempts would be prevalent.  That is exactly what happened.  These Islamic terrorists have conspired to commit mass murder atrocities throughout the Christian world.  This is not an isolated incident and anyone who believes it to be, needs to reevaluate the evidence before them.  This is not in retaliation to 9/11, as none exists if our government conspired or was involved.  This is not in retaliation for harm befalling the execution of their religion in Britain or the US.  It is in retaliation for perceived ills and attitudes toward those governments controlled by Islamic clerics and extremists from Western Christian nations.  These facts and admitted guilty pleas are undeniable.

[ironglow]

  More than 12,000 terrorist attacks around the world by Islamofacists over the last 8 years !
    Still, we are expected to assume that 2 or 3 major ones here in the US were done by our own government !
   I really MUST consider that idea as Koolaid kook-ery !..

[ironglow]

  OK TM..
  Let's put it simply...because I'm a simple guy..
   Steel melts at 2700 F, but for a building to collapse, it need not get anywhere near that heat. Steel starts to get a red glow at about 800F..and is already less than
  half it's strength. Like everything else, habitable buildings are designed with certain load capacities..with the original qualities of the steel intact.  When the steel glowing
  red it is obviously not considered as a "habitable" building. Heat was probably much higher than 800F, since a fire will generate it's own "draft" simply by the vast amount of
   air it will draw into the conflagration, just ask any fireman !
         As the burning fuel from the crashed planes flooded the floors, obviously the center of the I-beams will start to sag, dumping remaining fuel down the center of
  the structure, starting the heating process centrally on each lower floor. When the first engaged floor finally collapsed, it dropped onto the next, immediately overloading
   that floor .etc, gaining speed on the way down. Since each of these floors dropped center first, followed by the outer edges, each floor acted like a giant bellows,
  blasting the smoke & fumes out through the windows..explains the puffs at each floor..
       These were the tallest buildings in the world, standing among dozens of other super tall class buildings. Actually, the buildings performed exactly as designed, since
  from what I have read by architects, such buildings are designed to go straight down is such a conflagration (makes sense and code laws INSIST upon the feature).

       The sensational videos featured by conspiracists are a joke..let's use our heads..when I fell a tree, I don't cut it every 4" all the way up the trunk..NO; I just cut
    one place down near the base. If I were going to fell a giant building, I would just destroy a floor or two at the base..it would HAVE to come down !

   Before you reply..the bright, firey spots the conspiracists point out in their videos, could easily be the "bellows effect " I mentioned, with the blast of air superheating elements within the building..
   And yes, when we see professionals destroy a stadium or reasonably large structure, they plant explosives on more than one floor..because most are not built under the "skyscraper code" and they want to MAKE SURE the structure falls inward upon itself.

   The one thing not adequately explained by conspiracists..is the Airliners seen to crash by so many thousands in both New York city and Washington, DC..

[Chilachuck]

I wonder how, and what, the conspiracy theorists are going to expouse now.

Claim the tape is actually a CIA plant. Claim the people who made it are on the US payroll, or being paid by the Jooooooos.

It's hilarious. Moslems out number the Jews about 10,000:1, yet, according to the Moslems, the Jews constantly outwit, out compete, and out think the Moslems, in spite of the Moslems controlling far more wealth than the Jews.

You'd almost think Moslems were inherently inferior to the Jews, or something.

Think they are banging their heads on the ground too hard? Think maybe that when they are huddled on the ground like that they are actually eating dog dung and tapeworms from the dung have crawled into their brains?

[ironglow]

TM;

   Earlier you asked for a comprehensive list of terrorist attacks by Islamonuts since 9/11/01..
   
   Well, here is one, listing time, place , casualties etc..the website will come up, then go to upper left corner
   and click on "Islamic terrorist attacks" or whatever the wordage..that will take you to the many acts of terror
   already committed in 2008. When you get to the bottom of the long list..you will find places to bring up previous years.

   The whole website is interesting, especially if one is not a terrorist sympathizer..

                   www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

[Chilachuck]

nobody is denying there isn't a backdrop of terrorism in the world today...form where,why and how it springs is another topic however.

...TM7

It's just pure accident that almost all the terrorism involves Moslems, eh? Gee, it must be a conspiracy by the polytheist Hindus, the Christians, Jews, Animists of one hundred and one different types, the pacifistic Buddhists, and all against Islam.

Everyone is picking on Moslems.

Yeah. Right.

[ironglow]

  TM;
  Many do have references..just search them out..if you dare..  As one looks at the terrorist incidents mentioned..some come to mind.."I remember that !"
  likely then the ones we don't remember may be as accurate as the ones we do. In any case it sure has better backing than most conspiracy theory blogs..

  Here's a couple more good ones       www.faithfreedom.org/

      And one by disgusted Muslims or ex_Muslims..      www.omdurman.org/

                                                                                ....enjoy !

[Chilachuck]

It's just pure accident that almost all the terrorism involves Moslems, eh?

.
Very silly post.  But not all terrorisn is from the muzzies,,,that is if you have been paying attention.

Speaking of not paying attention...

[ironglow]

  Didn't watch him..he wasn't even wearing his tinfoil hat !

[Chilachuck]

almost all the terrorism

.
not all terrorisn is from the muzzies,

Speaking of not paying attention...

.
Take it up with this guy....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JzX6tkLmgAM&feature=related

...TM7

I don't have the band width. Did he comment on your attempt to turn "most" into "all"?

[Chilachuck]

(shrug) This has exactly what to do with my comment:

It's just pure accident that almost all the terrorism involves Moslems, eh? Gee, it must be a conspiracy by the polytheist Hindus, the Christians, Jews, Animists of one hundred and one different types, the pacifistic Buddhists, and all against Islam.

Everyone is picking on Moslems.

Yeah. Right.

While Ventura might have experience blowing up stuff as a SEAL, or whatever, I've never heard they were involved with /controlled/ explosions or destruction. What is his expertise? Is he also a civil engineer?

[Chilachuck]

Incidently, I don't have a TV. Haven't had one for over 20 years, too much propaganda. And I've never had cable.

[TribReady]

Chilachuck, no TV?  I can live without most of the time actually, but come football season, no way! My name is TribReady and I'm a football addict.......(everyone now): Hi Trib!

Now back to the post. I think someone like Ventura takes away from any perceived credibility of the 9/11 conspiracy. I, too, have questions (no necessarily doubts, just questions) about the limited damage footprint and WTC #7. However, when you get any of the Hollyweird crowd or Jesse talkiing it just turns me off to even listening.

[billy_56081]

Old James Janos AKA Jessie Ventura was known as Governor turnbuckle here. He won his election due to some very good advertisments and 2 very lame opponents. He chose not to run for re election due to his poll numbers were very low and he cannot stand losing. His most memorable thing he did as Governor here was get light rail in MN. The Governor turnbuckle light rail system runs from the Ghetto of Minneapolis to the mall of America, what it di was export crime from the inner city to the Mall of America. Thankfully the Mall and the policee stepped up security after some very high profile assaults and murders at the Mall of America and they pretty much put the bad element back in its place and made the mall safe for familys again. The popular opinion of Governor turnbuckle after a few years in office was a total fruitcake, even most of his supporters from his first election thought that of him.

Now as they say "birds of a feather flock together" I can understand TrueMuslim7's love of him and using him as a "source" to further his hatred for America and Israel. But alas it just goes to prove that Ron White is 100% correct.

[ironglow]

Still, no conspiracy proven

[williamlayton]

You are using melt as in "too a liquid".
Melt, in this case, is used as in too lose structural integrity.
The walls of a storage tank do not melt. They loose structural integrity. The walls may stand erect but they will warp from the lose of integrity.
I live within a driver (Golf talk symbolism here) of the Houston ship channel and have witnessed hundreds of tank fires---even saw one go up when it was struck by lightening--and the explosion did not cause shrapnel too be tossed about  as you see in movies. It ignites/catches fire and the resulting heat causes the loss of structural integrity.
Now, you plug up a valve and put it under pressure and I can show pictures of an explosion.
Some loose perspective for the sake of argument
Blessings.

[williamlayton]

If you plunge a huge plane into a large building at 180 MPH I Will argue that you will see pieces fly for a long way.
It is the combination of many girders which act together too hold up such massive weights in these buildings. think of the reverse of the straw that broke the camels back.
I do not recall seeing any pictures of these massive girders in puddles of melted steel. I do recall that broken gas mains and burning fuel were allowed too "burn out."
There are not many who can stretch their minds around a conspiracy that has more holes and flaws too it than a "B" whodunit. You just have too want too believe it for it too be considered.
There are, however; more viable conspiracies too consider than this.
Blessings