You guys really are a hoot, I love these debates.
This is a free country and you're entitled to your opinions, however misguided we perceive one another to be.
I will say this though, as long as we continue to sow the seeds of war, we will reap a grim harvest. We cannot kill everyone in the mid-east plus all of the Muslims in the rest of the world, and come out as the same nation, I hope we can at least agree on that much.
Furthermore, we cannot keep up our policy of invasion and attempted nation building. The economic cost of our current war is enormous, and five years after the invasion Iraq would still fall into utter chaos if we were to pack up and leave and cease supporting them with the money we're borrowing from China. They tell us that we've got Al Qaeda in Iraq on the ropes, and that appears to be true, and it's a very good thing. The problem, however is that Al Qaeda can bounce back with money given to them by friendly governments and wealthy benefactors. Recruiting impressionable youths for suicide missions is the easy part.
There are no easy solutions. If we leave Iraq right now, the chaos will mean that the most brutal people will come out on top, and that isn't something we can afford as long as we're dependent on oil from the mid-east. On the flip side, we will not be able to afford the economic and political costs of the Iraq war for much longer.
The economic cost of draining trillions of dollars from our economy and pouring it into a foreign land is just starting to catch up to us, and every one of the 300 or so million people living in this nation owes about $30,000 not counting interest.
The political costs are tolerable at the moment, but a new round of violence could change that quickly and turn the war into a political hot potato that nobody wants to be left holding.
I need more information on what roles France and Spain have played in the prohibition of the self determination of Muslim states to warrant terrorists attacks in those countries, before I can give an educated response.
Spain did very little to deserve the attacks they suffered. At one point they had 1,300 troops in Iraq, but I think the whole point of what I'm trying to say is that all of this violence is the product of fanaticism and a lack of respect for human life.
I'm sure that sick-minded fanatics out there (on both sides) think it is perfectly justifiable to kill hundreds (or even more) of innocent people because of the actions of a nation's government. They justify this to themselves by claiming that the people of that nation are guilty simply because they happen to reside in that area.
I can think of very few situations where it is justifiable to take a human life. Bombing a train station because a nation's government had troops stationed overseas is not justifiable by any stretch of the imagination. I can see how these people justify it to themselves, but that does not mean that I find it anything but barbaric.
As for France, their hands are a bit dirtier than those of Spain. The French were instrumental in the building of Israel's nuclear program. The French also supplied the Israelis with Mirage jets. Again, you can think whatever you want about those actions, but to fanatical Muslims who consider themselves to be at war with Israel, those are grounds for war. Again, acknowledging this doesn't mean that I hate America, or that I hate Jews, or that I think they were right to do with they did. It just means that I am able to put 2 and 2 together.
Let me ask you a hypothetical question,
If it can be said that Islamic scholars are capable of determining the seperation between true Christianity and the current position of the U.S. Government, are Muslims justified in killing innocent Americans? (French, Spaniards, English, Aussies, each other?)
Since it's getting late, I'll get down to answering your question.
My answer is a resounding no! No state, organization, or person is justified in carrying out violence against wholly uninvolved and innocent people. Even people such as Billy, who advocate the killing of millions of human beings, are ultimately innocent, just as the people who danced in the streets after 9-11 are innocent of everything but ignorance.
Just as we did the Muslims (and other people of the world) a great injustice when we denied them the ability to pick their own government, they do a great misdeed by killing innocent civilians. In the end, we're both wrong.
Of course, I find the idea of killing in the name of God or government repulsive and nauseating to begin with, so I may be a bit opinionated on the matter.
Do these good Muslims read a different Koran than the bad Muslims?
Does Rev. Jeremiah Wright read a different bible than Pat Robertson? And do they both read a different bible than Fred Phelps?
