Muslim call to adopt Mecca time

[powderman]

HEH. At least  we haven't resorted to name calling. My neices joined the devils cult of hatred and death, no solace or decency there. You might let your doc know that your meds are not working. POWDERMAN. 

[Heather]

It is heartbreaking that in America today we have people who can take a bit of news such as a certain group of people with differing religious beliefs wanting to adopt a different system of time and turn it into a debate on whether these people should even be "allowed to live". You argue about their history, their contributions to society, and their worth as a group of people.  You deem their entire race as evil, never taking the time to realize the possibility of the good in the individual.  You light heartedly joke about the best way to annihilate them.  I realize our country is at war, but we are at with war with “terrorism”, not a religion. People are not necessarily terrorist because they are Muslim, as not all Muslims are terrorist and not all terrorist are Muslims. We live in a country founded on religious freedom, and you want to wipe out an entire group of people based on their religious beliefs.  You say that their religion makes them intolerant of anyone not Muslim, and that is why they should not be tolerated and should be killed.  Doesn’t that make you intolerant of anyone Muslim?  Following your philosophy, you should not be tolerated and should be killed.  That is if the old adage of what’s good for the goose is good for the gander still applies. 

In my opinion some of you should visit a kindergarten class room during Character Education time.  Treat others the way you want to be treated.  Don’t judge people by the color of their skin, how much money they have, or their religious beliefs.  Put yourself in some one else’s shoes before making assumptions.  To me, these are traits of common decency that should just come as second nature.  It is obvious that this level of thinking is above some of you so let’s make this simple.  Muslims have lived for thousands of years.  Some years were years of peace, and some years were years of war.  Those years of peace are proof that Muslims can live without trying to kill every one that is not Muslim.  So let’s try a difficult concept.  Leave them the hell alone.  “Put yourself in their shoes,” and think how you would like it if another country was over here trying to run your government and tell you how to live your lives.  From observing your behavior on this site, I conclude that your reactions would be just as bad, if not worse, “evil” than that of terrorist.  Notice I said terrorist, not Muslims.  Terrorist have not attacked America because America isn’t a Muslim country.  Terrorist attacked America because America won’t leave the oil rich Muslim lands alone.  Now, on topic of this thread I do not believe that Mecca time should replace GMT.  I’m a creature of habit and change is often difficult. 

[SHOOTALL]

KEVTHEBASSMAN , nothing wrong with what you express , as for me we should have hit old Bin's digs with a limited nuke !
We would have established that we would not allow invasion , we should cut aid except for food , medicine,  education and protection where it is ask for ( but only if certian goals are stated and then met ).
If countries in a reigon wish to not sell us oil then we should hold back all listed above . tell them straight up if you want food send oil and we will pay in food !
This comparing us to other countries is pure BS and only lowers us to what limitations they can't over come !

[SHOOTALL]

oh yea Iran , i didn't mind kicking their butts but being a target NO ! if they follow us home then we should turn their home in to a hell like the world has never seen !
i believe when people fear your ability they are more likely to show respect !

[ncsurveyor]

Heather, I understand your frustration,

From observing your behavior on this site, I conclude that your reactions would be just as bad, if not worse, “evil” than that of terrorist.  Notice I said terrorist, not Muslims.  Terrorist have not attacked America because America isn’t a Muslim country.  Terrorist attacked America because America won’t leave the oil rich Muslim lands alone.  Now, on topic of this thread I do not believe that Mecca time should replace GMT.  I’m a creature of habit and change is often difficult. 

Some kindergarten kindness may go a long way for some, but the fact is that this post may appear to be just about moving a time zone,  It was posted to be inflammatory.  I suspect "ms" knew the minute he read it that it was going to raise some ire.  It was destined to be hijacked because of the polarizing nature of the subject.

It may be sad that people villify Islam because of the actions of terrorists, but the terrorists have chosen to associate their actions with their religion.  Many people cannot and will not (should not?) make that seperation, anymore than innocent people are seperated from the actions of their government when it comes to terrorist activity.  And yes, citizens should be mindful of their government, however, if that applies to us, should it not apply to theocracies as well?

I posted this in another thread but here it is again:

The 20th century saw the creation of many new Islamic "revivalist" movements. Groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Jamaat-e-Islami in Pakistan advocate a totalistic and theocratic alternative to secular political ideologies. Sometimes called Islamist, they see Western cultural values as a threat, and promote Islam as a comprehensive solution to every public and private question of importance. In countries like Iran and Afghanistan (under the Taliban), revolutionary movements replaced secular regimes with Islamist states, while transnational groups like Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda engage in terrorism to further their goals. In contrast, Liberal Islam is a movement that attempts to reconcile religious tradition with modern norms of secular governance and human rights. Its supporters say that there are multiple ways to read Islam's sacred texts, and stress the need to leave room for "independent thought on religious matters".[94]

I understand that you feel that the U.S. involvement is not allowing Muslims to just live, however, at the same time, the fear of this "Islamist" movement as described above, strikes fear in a lot of grass roots people.  One does not justify the other (or does it?), but that is the state of affairs.  I think what makes this the most difficult for "westerners" to swallow is that western aggression has always been about capitalist expansion or security issues, whereas Islamic aggression has always been about Islam.

Lastly regarding the religion as peaceful.  Not so sure in the last 2000 years that this holds much water.  When the Muslim states were running rough shod over Eurasia, the homeland was peaceful.  But when they ran out of easy targets, they had to fight amongst themselves to keep their skills sharp.

No different than the rest of the world, though.....

[beemanbeme]

Another excellent post by Heather.  Lord save me from these Christian zealots that "believe" they have God's ear and "right" is on their side.

[zombiewolf]

If we ( the U.S. ) really wanted to make a statement about extreme fundamentalist Islam,we would stop holding hands with Saudi Arabia!

[kevthebassman]

Heather, beemanbeme, and zombiewolf, you guys had better watch out with that crazy talk.  Billy or someone else is liable to come on and tell you how stupid you are for having a different viewpoint.   

Funny thing, the ones who seem to hate the Muslims the most are the ones who most closely resemble them in ideology.

[powderman]

 I lost another post this morning trying to use a smilie. I hit a smilie at the end of my post and lost the whole letter, AGAIN. I hate it
when that happens, I'll try again.
HEATHER. I understand your point, but, islam is what we are fighting. Like it or not, we are in a war, it's good, vs evil, God vs satan himself, islam against the entire world. Theirs is a cult of hared and death. Talk about good muslims if you want, but they all study from the same devils handbook, the koran. Every convert to islam is another soul lost to satan himself. The only time muslims are at peace is when they are in total control. Name just 1 country in the world that the Godless ones aren't murdering innocents, not China, cause they'd squash them like bugs if they tried their crap there. What I hate is seeing millions of people believing a lie that will take them to hell. What kind of a man would strap explosives on his child and tell him to murder innocents and he'll immediately go to Heaven where 72 virgins await him???  A muslim. In reality he send his child to hell, thats where they go ya know. What kind of man hides behind women and children hoping to get them killed by Israelis??? A muslim. Islam is a cancer, a boil on the butt of the entire world. I hope the world wakes up before it's too late. They teach their childre to lie and hate from birth. The Godless ones will not rest til they kill or control every man, woman, and child in the world that will not subscribe to the devils cult. Their goal at the beginng of islam is the same as it is now, world domination. My 2 neices were raised Christian, in a Christian home. They got mixed up with the Godless ones in Lou and married them. They renounced Jesus in favor of satan. I have no further use for them. I tell it like it is. POWDERMAN.

[ironglow]

  heather;
   Your simple formula of "just leave them alone"....and I am assuming you are implying that they will then leave us alone....
       Tell that to the families that lost loved ones in the twin towers, at the Pentagon..or in a cornfield in Pennsylvania !
   ... I have found no record of where any of those 3,000 people that died, were harassing, hurting or killing any of their assassins..

    Let's be honest; those Muslims came to our country for the express purpose of murdering innocent men, women and children; just
   as they have done in some 7,000 odd terrorist attacks perpetrated by them in the last 40 years..

    I submit that the eleven Israeli Olympic team members at Munich were innocent, wheel chair bound Leon Klinghofer, aboard the ship
   Achille Lauro and many decent, quiet people aboard the flight over Lockerbie, Scotland were not terrorizing Muslims, any more than folks
  aboard London buses, Spanish trains or Israeli child care centers.
   ...And for the many instances of Christian missionaries working in fetid jungles of the world that have been kidnapped and/or murdered by
    Muslims ..please inform us as to how these humble missionaries were not "leaving the Muslims alone"..inquiring minds would like to know...

       No; I don't endorse mass extermination of Muslims; but I surely will cast a jaundiced eye at any of their initiatives or suggestions, especially since
   we have experienced such egregious treachery at their hands.

      Heather; perhaps your sun glasses have to rosy a tint ! Have you not read the recent revelations of Muslim fathers ..murdering their own daughters
   in an act concerning some kind of twisted "honor code" ...hah ! ..Some honor !!
      ..And I do hope you are not contemplating making a similar mistake as was made by Powderman's nieces..but surely you're too bright for that !

[ironglow]

TM7;

    I just HAD to reply to your accusation toward Billy, when you said Chairman Mao would have liked mindless battalions such as he .
   Frankly, I can think of NO battalions more mindless than the idiots that will blow their neighbors,their children, their wives or themselves
   to smithereens...just to please a disgusting pedophile !
       And yes, many of the Muslims do admire Hitler. A personal friend (a PHD) who spent many decades teaching in a high school where many
  Muslim students were in the body, was shocked when invited to Muslim homes..to find that Hitler's photo was reserved a special place of
   honor on their wall. This was true, not in a single case..but very often.

   For a short education on Nazi-Muslim connections, see:   http:christianactionforisrael.org/arabnazi.html         or you can go to     www.youtube.com/ 
   and do a search for a video entitled..      Adolph Hitler meets withArab Grand Mufti Amin Al Hus

    ... Or simply do a Google search for..   <  Hitler Muslim  >   ...lots of info as to the connection...

[ironglow]

  Looking at the newsreel footage from the time that is posted on youtube, it is clear that oil was not the reason..that oil would have been hard to secure
   and the Nazis already had among others, Polesti, Romania..an easier place to hold.
   No; the newsreel points out that their common interest was the extermination of Jews, something all Satan-controlled people eventually come around to..
   Such is simply a Biblical AND historical fact !

[powderman]

tm. Most of the so called innocent deaths of the Godless ones are caused by the Godless ones themselves.  They intentionally mingle with civilians hoping they get killed so they can get you and the others to whine and cry about that mean ol Israel, but you already know that. They fire rockets at Israel from the rooftops of peoples homes, again hoping for civilian deaths, again, you already know that. Genocide??? The only genocide is by the Godless ones themselves. The only good thing to come from it is at least they are cleansing their own gene pool, just not quick enough. Every time they fight Israel they get their butts handed to them in a sling. I would think that by now they would come to realize that their allah just aint doing it for them. Israel is not going away, God made a covenant with them thousands of years ago, and he will not leave them, or allow them to be anhilated. It should be apparent even to you that God has protected them, and America has been blessed because we have supported them. Going to work now. I'm afraid to try another smilie. POWDERMAN.

[SHOOTALL]

lets face it the longer we wait to nuke them the more graves will have to be dug to bury them and us .
They will win or die no other option so how do we deal with it ? guess we need to decide if we want to win or loose ?

[Heather]

“Your simple formula of "just leave them alone"....and I am assuming you are implying that they will then leave us alone....
       Tell that to the families that lost loved ones in the twin towers, at the Pentagon..or in a cornfield in Pennsylvania !
   ... I have found no record of where any of those 3,000 people that died, were harassing, hurting or killing any of their assassins..”

First of all I nor you nor even our government has valid proof of who was responsible for the 911 attacks.  It has never been fully investigated, so let’s try not to persecute an entire race based on ifs and gut feelings and what the media told us to think.

  “...And for the many instances of Christian missionaries working in fetid jungles of the world that have been kidnapped and/or murdered by
    Muslims ..please inform us as to how these humble missionaries were not "leaving the Muslims alone"..inquiring minds would like to know...”

You answered your own question.  The sole purpose of a Christian Missionary is to spread Christianity.  If I was devout in my faith I might get mighty pissed off if someone was trying to shove their religion down my throat.

“Heather; perhaps your sun glasses have to rosy a tint ! Have you not read the recent revelations of Muslim fathers ..murdering their own daughters
   in an act concerning some kind of twisted "honor code" ...hah ! ..Some honor !!

Well in my personal opinion you are right killing your own daughter is twisted, but it is their choice, not yours and not mine.  If in America when committing this act then they can be punished by our justice system, but what the do at home in their own lands is their own business.

     

“..And I do hope you are not contemplating making a similar mistake as was made by Powderman's nieces..but surely you're too bright for that !”

Powderman’s nieces made a personal choice and I find it appalling that they had to suffer loss of family members due to their personal choice, but no I am not contemplating any relationship changes.

I am in no way defending their way of life except for the fact that they have a right to their way of life.  I am the first to admit that their religion is twisted; I personally would not want to worship a vengeful and unforgiving God.  But we can’t persecute the group for the actions of individuals.  There have been school shootings, bombings, rape, torture and murder by white “Christians”, should all Christinas be considered evil.  Terrorism is appalling, but as I have said before, people are not necessarily terrorist because they are Muslim, as not all Muslims are terrorist and not all terrorist are Muslims.

[SHOOTALL]

it would seem if one sticks their head in the sand to avoid trouble you expose you azz to alot of kicking !

[beemanbeme]

ROFLMAO, I find it a humorous sidebar that some of the more overt Jew haters and anti-Isreal types in this room have, since 9/11, come to really, really like the Jews.  Where once they were "Christ Killers", they are now part of the "Christian Bloc of Solidarity".   Y'all just didn't realize what nice folks they could be did you. 

[SHOOTALL]

or are they just standing behind the point of the spear ?

[kevthebassman]

ROFLMAO, I find it a humorous sidebar that some of the more overt Jew haters and anti-Isreal types in this room have, since 9/11, come to really, really like the Jews.  Where once they were "Christ Killers", they are now part of the "Christian Bloc of Solidarity".   Y'all just didn't realize what nice folks they could be did you. 

I always get a chuckle out of that too.  Some of our more outspoken members tell us how anyone who doesn't accept Christ is doomed to hell, but then turn around and tell us how the Jews have been promised Israel by God Himself.  Makes me wonder how they juggle so many contradictory viewpoints.

[ironglow]

  deletion

[powderman]

HEH. I think I know who heather is now. I reckon tm7 has a sister. I've asked several times before, and I'm asking again. Name a country that the Godless ones  aren't murdering innocents??? Come on you experts, name one. Theres not one country of any size that the Godless ones aren't murdering innocents, not one. Maybe 1% of all terrorists aren't muslim, but most are. Maybe not all muslims are terrorists, but they are all Godless and read from the same book. The so called peaceful ones right here in America celebrated when 3,000 innocents were murdered on 9-11-01. They are muslims, not Americans. Those 2 words should not be on the same page let alone in the same sentence. Knock Christians if it makes ya feel better, doesn't bother me in the least. Don't knock a Bible you haven't read. POWDERMAN. Still not going to try a smilie.

[kevthebassman]

Powderman, tell me... what makes your book right, and their book wrong?  And why can they not be Americans?

[zombiewolf]

Quick Kev, he's powerless without his smileys!

[powderman]

KEV. The Bible is more than a book, it is Gods true word. I use the KJ version, I believe it has been translated as God wanted it to be, I don't think he would have allowed it any other way. You either have Jesus in your heart, or you don't. Salvation comes through acceptance of, and belief in Jesus Christ. History supports Biblical accounts of our past. The koran was written by a murdering, pedophile named mohamed. Murderer, rapist, warlord, all of these things and more, but certainly not a prophet of God. The Godless ones idolize mohamed, a mere man, who started islam. Satan tried to kill Christ but failed. He used mohamed to try and do what he had failed to do, destroy Christianity, and everything Jesus had taught, or built. That was the goal then, and now. Islam is about evil, and death. Too many prophets in the Bible  tell the same story not to be true. I, personally, have had too many prayers answered in a positive way NOT to believe. God has truly blessed me.
Muslims are just that, muslims, not Americans. They don't see themselves as American, only that they live here. Their cult teaches them to hate all non muslims, uhhhhh, thats you and me. No, they are not Americans, not even my neices. POWDERMAN.

[Heather]

HEH. I think I know who heather is now. I reckon tm7 has a sister.

Wow I didn't realize you were the complimenting type powderman, thank you!

I've asked several times before, and I'm asking again. Name a country that the Godless ones  aren't murdering innocents???

Well the United States for starters.  We have no PROOF of any Muslims killing anyone in the US.

Heather

[ironglow]

Oh Oh ...

  Somebody send for the tinfoil hat fitter !

[kevthebassman]

KEV. The Bible is more than a book, it is Gods true word. I use the KJ version, I believe it has been translated as God wanted it to be, I don't think he would have allowed it any other way. You either have Jesus in your heart, or you don't. Salvation comes through acceptance of, and belief in Jesus Christ. History supports Biblical accounts of our past. The koran was written by a murdering, pedophile named mohamed. Murderer, rapist, warlord, all of these things and more, but certainly not a prophet of God. The Godless ones idolize mohamed, a mere man, who started islam. Satan tried to kill Christ but failed. He used mohamed to try and do what he had failed to do, destroy Christianity, and everything Jesus had taught, or built. That was the goal then, and now. Islam is about evil, and death. Too many prophets in the Bible  tell the same story not to be true. I, personally, have had too many prayers answered in a positive way NOT to believe. God has truly blessed me.
Muslims are just that, muslims, not Americans. They don't see themselves as American, only that they live here. Their cult teaches them to hate all non muslims, uhhhhh, thats you and me. No, they are not Americans, not even my neices. POWDERMAN.

I see a rambling, nearly incoherent wall of words that contains no documentation or proof to support the claims made in it.  Where is the documentation that Mohamed was a pedophile or that he murdered anyone?  Where is the proof that the Bible is the true word of God, and not written by men as you contend the Koran was.  What makes your bible superior to the Koran, or any other religious clap-trap, for that matter?

Furthermore, where is the proof that your blessings were not simple happy circumstance, and not the work of God? 

You will have to excuse me for being such a skeptic, but I consider myself to be a Deist in the Jeffersonian tradition.  I believe that there is a God, but I tend to view the bible with some doubt, and I especially doubt those who say they have a monopoly on God and salvation.

[deltecs]

Heather
First of all I nor you nor even our government has valid proof of who was responsible for the 911 attacks.  It has never been fully investigated, so let’s try not to persecute an entire race based on ifs and gut feelings and what the media told us to think.

Well, I must disagree with this comment and others posted that have related no evidence exists, whereby Muslims did not participate nor engage in the heinous acts of 9/11.  Last week in a video tape sent to Western nations, Zawahri, Al Quada's #2 man, was criticizing Iran for undermining Al Quada's admtted confession of the actions, culminating in the destruction of the World Trade Center.  Is a thorough investigation, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, warranted when the perpetrator has confessed to the crime, necessary to convice the public of its truth?  When a prosecutor has a written or taped confession of a murder within the facts as known, does he still initiate a complete forensic and detailed investigation to further prove the guilt?   NO.  Did you have the same feelings about the Arab and Muslims, when Reagan bombed Libya and Gaddafis' palace?  Or did you applaud his actions then, but a personal dislike of Bush dictates a different avenue of logic with his foreign policies?  Or is it the liberal attitude of preserving the innocent to protect the guilty that is so prevalent among our politcally correct society that blames the media and government for all the ills of the worrld because we cannot understand the opposition?  Will you review the truth, which is that any government supporting terrorism though its people is as guilty as the terrorist themselves.  And any people that supports a terrorist government incurs the repercussions of that government as a people as a whole.  That is what Muslim extremists attribute to the American people as a whole.  Out soldiers are in uniform and easily recognized without hiding behind mental incompetents with suicide bombs strapped to their mid sections.  Our soldiers are visable according the Geneva Convention and uphold for the most part those rules of warfare.  Did Al Quada declare war against the US according to the Geneva Convention, or did they commit another blind Pearl Harbor attack, all the while confessing to the world that they committed this attack with pride?  I don't think the comment that no valid proof exists regarding 9/11 is correct, in light of Al Quada's continued confession of the terrorist act.  I think someone has been brainwashed by the conspiracy theorists expounding on any contradictions, not explained except under national security.   Since I am not privy to National Security documents, and I highly doubt most who post on this site are either, I can only believe Al Quada's confession of the crimes, until some other much more compelling evidence absolves them.  That goes for the rest of the Muslim community where they have admitted complicity.

[powderman]

kev. I misread your post, I mistakenly thought that you really wanted answers, sorry I bothered.
heather. The whole  world watched as the Godless ones flew planes into the twin towers. We also saw them dancing in the streets as they celebrated the deaths of 3,000 innocent Americans. We also watched the tape of osama laughing and saying it went even better than he had ever dreamed or hoped for. I guess you are blind and cannot hear. I am going to work now. POWDERMAN. 

[deltecs]

It doesn't matter that Al Quada was created by the CIA.  If I have a son, who murders someone, I could not in good faith harbor him.  I'd still love him, but could not harbor a murderer.  If the child errors away from its annointed task, it is time to do whatever possilble to correct his error.  Sometimes it takes corporal punishment.  If Al Quada needs correcting, so be it.