Muslim call to adopt Mecca time

[beemanbeme]

Heather, remember what Mark Twain said about arguing with a fool. 
I think you have made some very well thought out post in these various rooms.  Clear and concise.  I would suggest that you continue to make them. I don't agree with all of your opinions but they are yours and that makes them just as valid as any others in these rooms. You don't have to defend them nor debate them with any of God's chosen.

[kevthebassman]

kev. I misread your post, I mistakenly thought that you really wanted answers, sorry I bothered.

I understand powderman, It's easier not to ask one's self those questions.  I destroyed my own faith in Christianity asking the hard questions.

[ncsurveyor]

........  I destroyed my own faith in Christianity asking the hard questions.

Too bad you didn't find the right answers.......

[kevthebassman]

........  I destroyed my own faith in Christianity asking the hard questions.

Too bad you didn't find the right answers.......

If you say so. 

I started asking myself those questions because I saw far too many Sunday morning "Christians" who put on hundreds of dollars worth of clothes and shoes, then drive $60,000 cars to worship in multi-million dollar churches just a few miles away from areas where children grow up dirt poor and old ladies live in dilapidated houses that need painted and lawns mowed.

These very same people look down their noses at anyone who doesn't subscribe to their particular brand of religion, and it sickens me.

I do my part for the people I can help, but I won't be a part of that brand of Christianity, ever.

 If I get faith later on, then I'll choose a church and a religion that suits me.  What doesn't suit me is the narcissistic notion that Christians, (or Muslims, or _____) even Christians who are generally miserable people, are the only ones who will get salvation, and everyone else is doomed to hellfire and damnation for all of eternity no matter how holy an existence they've lived. 

Ultimately though, my faith is my business.  I'll worry about my own soul, and you worry about yours.

[ncsurveyor]

Ultimately though, my faith is my business.  I'll worry about my own soul, and you worry about yours.

You post it enough (your disatisfaction with Christianity) here and there, I figured it was up for grabs.

In a nutshell, you have foresaken faith in the lamb because of poor shepherds?  Or is it just "organized" Christianity you shun?  Since you include Muslims, and state if you find faith later, I assume the former.

Maybe you didn't ask the hard questions.  But you sure took the easy way out.

Its hard for me not to worry about other people's soul.  I worry about all of them.

[powderman]

kev. My church is small, we're lucky to have 15-20 people most Sundays, it's a little ol country church several miles off the main hwy.  Churches like you speak of are not for me. A lot of those people you spoke of are not really Christians, they go to rhe right churches to be seen by the right people, not to worship. I'm not passing judgement on big churches, but most seem to be about money. It takes a lot of money to help others so money is needed for various legitimate reasons. I know of a lot of churches that help a lot of people for the right reasons. I know of one who helps others for it's own glory, and that is wrong. Not going to church because of THEM is as good an excuse as there is I guess, I used to use that one myself. Should I continue with you??? Am I making any sense at all??? Or should I just drop it??? If you really have questions I'll try to answer them, if I can't, I know Ironglow can, and will. POWDERMAN.

[Heather]

Well, I must disagree with this comment and others posted that have related no evidence exists, whereby Muslims did not participate nor engage in the heinous acts of 9/11.

I still do not understand why I must prove they did not.  The burden of proof falls on the people and government.  Innocent until proven guilty is still a major part of our judicial system, or should be anyway.


 

Last week in a video tape sent to Western nations, Zawahri, Al Quada's #2 man, was criticizing Iran for undermining Al Quada's admtted confession of the actions, culminating in the destruction of the World Trade Center.

Well there you go, Iran doesn’t even believe that they were responsible, so why should I.  When someone has to keep confessing over and over, it seems to lessen the validly of their words. 

Is a thorough investigation, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, warranted when the perpetrator has confessed to the crime, necessary to convice the public of its truth?

Which investigation are you speaking of.  The one that states that the cause which is unlikely is the best one they can come up with.

 

When a prosecutor has a written or taped confession of a murder within the facts as known, does he still initiate a complete forensic and detailed investigation to further prove the guilt?   NO.

No, but he still has to go to court and a judge must accept his guilty plea.  Al Quida may enjoy reaping the “honor” of people thinking they had achieved this difficult task, but I don’t believe they could have pulled it off without some help.  You are giving them too much credit.

Did you have the same feelings about the Arab and Muslims, when Reagan bombed Libya and Gaddafis' palace?  Or did you applaud his actions then, but a personal dislike of Bush dictates a different avenue of logic with his foreign policies?  Or is it the liberal attitude of preserving the innocent to protect the guilty that is so prevalent among our politcally correct society that blames the media and government for all the ills of the worrld because we cannot understand the opposition?

I was too young to understand what was going on in the world back then, but whether or not I like or dislike Bush has nothing to do with my feeling about our Nations foreign policy. I don’t blame the media or government for the “all of the ills of the world”.  I blame the people in general for allowing our country to evolve from a democracy to a dictatorship right before their eyes.  The rights that we as citizens have lost since 911 are horrendous.  It makes me sick that people are so blind to how close we are to martial law and then all of our rights are gone. 

 

Will you review the truth, which is that any government supporting terrorism though its people is as guilty as the terrorist themselves.  And any people that supports a terrorist government incurs the repercussions of that government as a people as a whole.  That is what Muslim extremists attribute to the American people as a whole.  Out soldiers are in uniform and easily recognized without hiding behind mental incompetents with suicide bombs strapped to their mid sections.  Our soldiers are visable according the Geneva Convention and uphold for the most part those rules of warfare.  Did Al Quada declare war against the US according to the Geneva Convention, or did they commit another blind Pearl Harbor attack, all the while confessing to the world that they committed this attack with pride?

Well you got one thing right; this is exactly like Pearl Harbor.  A false flag attack to get the American people on board with financing another war.


 

I don't think the comment that no valid proof exists regarding 9/11 is correct, in light of Al Quada's continued confession of the terrorist act.  I think someone has been brainwashed by the conspiracy theorists expounding on any contradictions, not explained except under national security.   Since I am not privy to National Security documents, and I highly doubt most who post on this site are either, I can only believe Al Quada's confession of the crimes, until some other much more compelling evidence absolves them.  That goes for the rest of the Muslim community where they have admitted complicity.

Again I ask, why must I prove innocence until you can prove guilt? I find it difficult to debate with someone who can’t take a step back, set aside all predispositions, and just observe the facts. If you think for one second that less than 20 Muslim’s with box cutters could take out the WTC and parts of the Pentagon, then you are more naïve that you appear to be.  I don’t need documents that fall under National Security.  The 911 commission report along with FEMA’s is on the net and open to the public; check it out.   There are too many discrepancies and coincidences involved surrounding the whole situation.

[Heather]

Oh Oh ...

  Somebody send for the tinfoil hat fitter !

I would rather be viewed as crazy and be informed and ready, than to go on about my merry little way thinking all was well and good as long as we blow up the bad guys.

[kevthebassman]

I haven't made my mind up about the divinity of Jesus.  I don't put it out of the realm of possibility, but with the amount of suffering, pain, and injustice in this world, I find it hard to see God's work. 

I don't call myself a Christian, because I don't go to church, even though I was baptized a Catholic.  Not wanting to be associated with so-called "Christians" who no more follow the teaching of Jesus Christ than Osama bin Laden is only one of the reasons I do so.

I still wonder what sets the Bible apart from the Koran or the Book of Mormon, or any other religious work.

[billy_56081]

  I for one have no problem with anyone Else's religion. As long as that religion is not a murder cult as Islam IS. Anyone who believes that 9/11 was perpetrated by the Government of the United States of America, has nothing intelligent to add to a conversation. You are the people that they have to put warnings on lawn mowers for. Sci fi and fantacey are fine in the movies but you people that see 9/11 as a Government plot and cannot see that muslims are a real and present danger to freedom in this world need to check in and get some help. You are not helping secure our great land you are aiding the enemy. If you study Islam a bit it is obvious that the Koran was a dictaters handbook for controlling people. Old Mohammed , who molested children, robbed caravans and murdered anyone who went against him, was not a prophet of god, he was a prophet of satan. Islam has nothing decent to add to our world only terrorism and subjegation.

[powderman]

heather. Take off your blinders, the facts have been presented but I'll go over them just one more time for you. On September 11 2001 a group of Godless, subhuman, muslim SOBs hijacked 3 planes with the express purpose of murdering innocent Americans. Screaming allah akhbar as they murdered 3,000 Americans. Millions more Godless danced in the streets at the wonderful news, it was all over the TV and newspapers, sorry you missed it. I can still see the people jumping to their death, instead of being burned alive. I can almost hear the screams of the dead and dying. I can still see the rescuers carrying the buckets around picking up body parts. I can smell the stench of the dead and burned bodies as they decomposed. I can still see the tears of the survivors, and relatives and friends of the dead. I can still see the rescuers as they search for signs of life. I guess you were in a coma or something, cause I remember this clearly. The Godless ones not only took credit, they bragged about it. You seem to support the Godless ones, just like tm7 does, thats sad. I bet you voted for kerry, didntcha??? POWDERMAN.

[Matt]

Powderman your ignorance and arrogance become so much clearer with each post you make. You can’t seem to see the big picture because you won’t take your head out of your ass long enough. You talk so much about how every single muzzie is evil and just wants to kill Americans each and every minute of every day they are able to breath. Hmmm…. Well I am a numbers kind of guy and think that if you look at the numbers close enough you can learn a lot. So there are roughly 8 million muslims in the US so that is an average of about 153,846 in each state. For states with say 60 counties that is a little over 2500 per county. Now these folks are killing 3k+ folks with only 19 of them… hmm 2500 holly bat dropping batman were doomed… there’s too many of them.

So you mean to tell me with our borders so wide open that in the course of a month a Mexican can sneak in get caught and kicked out 2 and 3 times and get as far in as Alabama. With 8million here already they would have no trouble getting in, planning out and setting up huge attacks… that is if they are so hell bent on killing us Americans.

Now over in the ME we are on their soil telling them what to do. How would you take it if that was done to you? Would you say yes sir and smile and be happy if your entire way of life was disrupted and for the most part destroyed? What is the worst thing that has happen to you in your life? Maybe lost a loved one or 2 lost a job here and there maybe a divorce or separation maybe all of them but what if all at the same time.

Let’s look at what most Iraqis lost in the war or the course of the war.
Power
Gas
Telephone
Water
Food Supply
Loved Ones
Homes
Jobs
Livelihoods
Rights
Retirements
Many of these things were lost at the same time as well… So can you really not see how these folks might have a little sore spot when it comes to the US… Open your eyes please.

The fact of the matter is that they are being demonized for the benefit of warmongers who run this country and the media is all but out right helping this along.
Believe or don’t its up to you but when the crap hits the fan and your caught with your pants down and unprepared… ill say a little prayer for ya…

Matt

[powderman]

matt. I have a habit of saying what I think and telling it like it is. Call it whatever you want, you're a mod and can do that. Save your prayers, I don't want them. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

Sorry, Powderman, the one thing you DON'T do is "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" .   (when God whispers in your ear, does he tell you to call other humans created in his image, "godless, subhumans"? )

You see, Kev, you've got to go to the "right" church.  And guess who gets to pick 'em.  Which is the right one that is.  You'd think Christianity would be taught and preached at all of them. Wonder what ole Rev Wright would have to say about that??  Do'ya think he'd say his was one of the wrong ones?  Whether two or three are gathered together in my name............................

I'll bet there's no divisiveness in the Muzzie churches like in the Christian churches.  They all worship in lockstep and finish every service with a 10 minute chant of "kill whitie, kill whitie, kill whitie". 

[billy_56081]

"I'll bet there's no divisiveness in the Muzzie churches like in the Christian churches.  They all worship in lockstep and finish every service with a 10 minute chant of "kill whitie, kill whitie, kill whitie"."


Well it is kinda like when my brothers and I would beat the tar out of each other. We were fine with that but, when someone else jumped on one of us we were all in it together then. I have no problem understanding how some people could be confused as to think muslims are harmless. Like I keep saying, they have to put a warning on a lawn mower so some people don't stick their hands in the blade. 

[SHOOTALL]

but they still loose fingers trying to understand the warning !

[deltecs]

Heather
Again I ask, why must I prove innocence until you can prove guilt? I find it difficult to debate with someone who can’t take a step back, set aside all predispositions, and just observe the facts. If you think for one second that less than 20 Muslim’s with box cutters could take out the WTC and parts of the Pentagon, then you are more naïve that you appear to be.  I don’t need documents that fall under National Security.  The 911 commission report along with FEMA’s is on the net and open to the public; check it out.   There are too many discrepancies and coincidences involved surrounding the whole situation.  

I think you should take your own advice about blaming the innocents.  Should you be correct in your beliefs that the 9/11 commission report has too many discrepancies, why then are you so quick to blame the government without substantiation.  You definitely do not blame those that have admitted guilt, but not enough evidence exists that our own government is responsible and you rush to blame it.  Maybe the facts as you've read them fit a preconceived perception and you dearly need a crutch, so your conscience would be clear blaming the current government.  And I did not state that Iran believed Al Quada innocent.  I said Iran was undermining Al Quada's admitted involvement in 9/11.  Iran insinuated a link between Al Quada and the US for the crime.  This undermines Al Quada's power and throws mud at the US to gain Muslim support for Iran.  But did they offer proof, NO.

[SHOOTALL]

why don't the "good " Muslims control the bad ones ?
Why don't they condemn their shameful acts at home and abroad ?
Sorry but it hard to tell the difference when they refuse to stand apart !

[Heather]

Heather
Again I ask, why must I prove innocence until you can prove guilt? I find it difficult to debate with someone who can’t take a step back, set aside all predispositions, and just observe the facts. If you think for one second that less than 20 Muslim’s with box cutters could take out the WTC and parts of the Pentagon, then you are more naïve that you appear to be.  I don’t need documents that fall under National Security.  The 911 commission report along with FEMA’s is on the net and open to the public; check it out.   There are too many discrepancies and coincidences involved surrounding the whole situation. 

I think you should take your own advice about blaming the innocents.  Should you be correct in your beliefs that the 9/11 commission report has too many discrepancies, why then are you so quick to blame the government without substantiation. You definitely do not blame those that have admitted guilt, but not enough evidence exists that our own government is responsible and you rush to blame it. Maybe the facts as you've read them fit a preconceived perception and you dearly need a crutch, so your conscience would be clear blaming the current government.  And I did not state that Iran believed Al Quada innocent.  I said Iran was undermining Al Quada's admitted involvement in 9/11.  Iran insinuated a link between Al Quada and the US for the crime.  This undermines Al Quada's power and throws mud at the US to gain Muslim support for Iran.  But did they offer proof, NO.

I never pointed a finger at our government.  I don't know who helped them, but common sense tells me that someone did.  Logic would lead me to the conclusion that our government would be the only ones with enough power to aide in a disaster on such a large scale.  Logic and common sense can only go so far with some people, so the only thing that is left is opinionated conclusions and gut feelings.  I try to live by common sense and logic and leave the conclusions and gut feelings to people who are close minded and have to have an answer to everything.  I my self am content with saying that I am not sure what happened that day for sure, but it does need to be investigated futher so answers can be answered with facts and not opinions.  The official story at this time is full of opinionated conclusions, discrepancies, and misleading informantion.

[ironglow]

 Come on TM;
  You are much more intelligent than that ! We have no Christians that are running around blowing up buildings, children, ships, airplanes, cars or themselves for that
  matter, so likely there is nobody to condemn for those kinds of crimes. If there were some that called themselves Christian and were doing that, I feel confident that any Christians on this forum would not delay condemning such acts and would help in any way possible to bring them to justice; even doing undercover work if necessary.
  The big difference is that such activities are antithetical to probably at least 99.9% of Christians, if not more  and we would have no sympathy for anyone that would
   do such things while shouting, "God is great"..And we would not be dancing in the streets on the next day !
   The fact that Muslims here in the states are not in large numbers, helping to hunt such plotting terrorists down..tells us something !
     Oh yes; before you point it out..I do remember Tim McVey..could have been an exception to the rule, but I see no evidence that he was a Christian; certainly not
  at the time he was involved in the OK explosions. Actually, pagan, Christian, Muslim or whatever he was, I cannot imagine any American that would not have helpes in
   any way possible, to bring those killers to justice !
         In fact, I have long wondered why the "conspiracy theorists" haven't climbed aboard the fairly well documented eyewitnesses accounts of a "middle eastern"
     appearing man that was claimed by some witnesses as accompanying McVey when he parked the U-Haul.  Adding to the suspicions is another fact: Most murderers after
    conviction, go through a long period of protracted, drawn out wrangling of many years before they are executed...
   
  How long was it after conviction, that McVey was executed ?  ..It was less than 4 years (spent in solitary..wonder why?)..in a process that usually takes decades.

   BTW: He chose, for his final words.."Invictus"..a poem by Wm Ernest Henley..a particularly UN-Christian  rhyme..

   P.S...I am not aware of any Buddhists, Taoists, Confucians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons or Baha'i practitioners doing this kind of evil..certainly not in discernable numbers .

   No; the followers of the pedophile as a religion, pretty much stand alone in their evil practices !
     

[powderman]

matt. I believe in God, I believe the Holy Bible. I believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, that he did many miracles in his short life on earth. I believe he suffered a horrible death for the sins of the entire world. I believe that he rose in 3 days and lives today. I believe that islam was a devils cult and still is. It's goal was, and is to destroy everything that Jesus taught and built. Islam is evil, even the so called good ones perpetuate the lies of that pedophile hero of their mohamed. The goal of islam is to steal souls for satan, and it works quite well. Call me arrogant if you want, I call it faith.
I have a grandaughter in ILL with an extremely rare blood disease, she has lesions in her stomach and colon, 35-40+ of them. Shes had 10 inches of her colon removed. Drs have called the family in at least a dozX in her short 21 month old life saying that she can't live, but she is. I report her condition regularly on another board, but I never told of it here because of some of the non Christian attitudes displayed here. She's a miracle baby if there ever was one. Call me names if ya want, rant about Christians too if it makes ya feel good, you and a few others here are the losers, not me. And please, don't pray for my grandaughter either. Even the drs have said that she should have died many times and that they believe prayer is what keeps her alive.  POWDERMAN.

[ironglow]

Powderman;
  please accept my prayers for your granddaughter..I don't need a name..God already knows...
 
     Signing off to go to prayer right now...           be strong, Friend...Ironglow

[SHOOTALL]

TM-7 the good Christians and Jews are the ones arresting and convicting the bad ones , teaching each new generation good deeds etc. Guess you had not noticed !
when was the last time a Muslim sent help in a diaster in Isreal ? We help all people do they ?
You can be the Devil's advocate all you want ! But the truth is vivid here !

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Thanks for the prayers, her name is Jadyn. If I get time later I'll send a pm with more details. Charlie. 

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Check your pm. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

TM-& grass roots ? Really ? Then why has so much money been tracked back to the leaders or families of there leaders ?
Please help me understand how paying for them to exist and make war is GRASS ROOTS ?
HELP PLEASE , I JUST CAN"T FIGURE THAT ONE OUT !

[rex6666]

Kev i can sympathize with your thoughts on Christianity and religion, i was their, finally came to realize religion
comes from Man and will never be perfect that is why their are so many churches and religions.
If you can believe in GOD or a higher power you do not need a church or religion.


It seems  some  of the people her op perate on the baffle them with b.s. theory
tm7,beeman, and others i believe are educated WAY beyond their intelligence, been reading way
too much sci-fi and conspiracy novels. ::(see its easy)

[SHOOTALL]

BS , no force with out the support of socity/govt.  has waged war and lasted or succeded . These people are backed by govt. and capital .
The few in number people you suggest could not begin to support the cash flow needed to carry on the campain they have waged for so long .

[SHOOTALL]

and another thing , i support your right to question our GOVT. and its leaders . But the constant child like name calling , what is the purpose ? It really takes away from your post IMHO !

[powderman]

and another thing , i support your right to question our GOVT. and its leaders . But the constant child like name calling , what is the purpose ? It really takes away from your post IMHO !

Disrespecting America and name calling is what he does best. POWDERMAN.