Muslim call to adopt Mecca time

[SHOOTALL]

TM-7
a legend of satire in your own mind !
Please excuse me !

[Hooker]

I never pointed a finger at our government.  I don't know who helped them, but common sense tells me that someone did.  Logic would lead me to the conclusion that our government would be the only ones with enough power to aide in a disaster on such a large scale.  Logic and common sense can only go so far with some people, so the only thing that is left is opinionated conclusions and gut feelings.  I try to live by common sense and logic and leave the conclusions and gut feelings to people who are close minded and have to have an answer to everything.  I my self am content with saying that I am not sure what happened that day for sure, but it does need to be investigated futher so answers can be answered with facts and not opinions.  The official story at this time is full of opinionated conclusions, discrepancies, and misleading informantion.

Heather I think your reality check may have bounced a bit there . In a world where money will buy any thing (and trust me these terrorist group have plenty of money)  They did not need any outside help to get the job done. It may not have the excitement of a good old conspiracy but reality is like that sometimes.

Pat

[Heather]

I never pointed a finger at our government.  I don't know who helped them, but common sense tells me that someone did.  Logic would lead me to the conclusion that our government would be the only ones with enough power to aide in a disaster on such a large scale.  Logic and common sense can only go so far with some people, so the only thing that is left is opinionated conclusions and gut feelings.  I try to live by common sense and logic and leave the conclusions and gut feelings to people who are close minded and have to have an answer to everything.  I my self am content with saying that I am not sure what happened that day for sure, but it does need to be investigated futher so answers can be answered with facts and not opinions.  The official story at this time is full of opinionated conclusions, discrepancies, and misleading informantion.

Heather I think your reality check may have bounced a bit there . In a world where money will buy any thing (and trust me these terrorist group have plenty of money)  They did not need any outside help to get the job done. It may not have the excitement of a good old conspiracy but reality is like that sometimes.

Pat

I wasn't aware that box cutters and plane tickets were that expensive.  Or are you trying to imply that they paid off someone to turn a blind eye or aide them in some way?  Who could they have paid off?  Who has enough power to make entire groups of airplanes off track not that big of deal?  Who had the info that they would be playing war games that day?  Who sent fighter planes in the wrong direction?  Who benefited along with the terrorist?

Heather

[beemanbeme]

Heather, I retired before 9/11 but it was with 40 years with a major airline.  And one of the hats I wore was security.  There are just too many pieces that would have to be pulled together to accomplish any sort of conspiracy involving the government or a contingent beyond one or three of the airline employees.  There are just too many checks and balances. Believe me.
And once we investigate the investigators, who is going to investigate them? Ad infinitum.  Every time a politician's light starts to dim, he opens another round of "hearing" about the Kennedy conspiracy or the King conspiracy. 

[Hooker]

Heather to answer the last question, No one benefited from the events of 9/11 the whole world is now a sadder and more dangerous place because of it.
The cost of box knives and plane tickets are nothing but tiny details. I'm sure a lot of people were paid off, but not in a conspiracy way.
Small seemingly insufficient  transgressions ( whether paid for or just bad judgment) combined with loop holes in our security, complacent attitudes, and the inevitable human screw up factor were our down fall. All these things are calculable and these terrorist groups are not stupid.
This plan was carried out in small increments with few if any knowing what the final objective was until last minutes.They did not throw this thing together with a final objective in mind. Terrorist don't operate like that, they put a lot of small things into motion then play the waiting game until they see an opportunity. They'd make great chess player.

Pat

[ironglow]

   
     We hear folks in these forums that appear to prefer to believe that almost anything of real import that OUR government says, is false. Then,when speaking of
  the mass murder of 9/11, come up with a statement that says; " Iran doesn't even believe they are responsible, so why should I ?" That statement my friends, says
  a great deal in few words !
   Then another wonders just how a Christian can believe that  a person must accept Christ to be saved and still believe that the Jews are a chosen people, with a chosen
  land and destiny. He wonders just how we Christians can accommodate such a diverse view. Such is the kind of queries I often hear from some who have perhaps
   attended a church for a time and left without a working knowledge of the basic tenets of Christianity ! Sometimes the person is at fault, very often the "church" is
   either poorly led or a "social gospel' entity that does not disciple their people in the real Gospel.
    Some have even declared our government to be a dictatorship..only a person who turns a blind eye to much of the world ( N. Korea, China, Cuba, Venezuela, Sudan,
   Tanzania  and a hundred other countries, would call the US a "dictatorship".
  We have all opined as to how we got into such a fix as we are in at the moment, and each has offered their wisdom...

        The following is an opinion piece..and each can either take it or trash it..doesn't matter..
 
      Our destiny as a nation and as a world is being played out at this moment in time, and I believe that perhaps the die is already cast ! Little difference will be made
   whichever political party presides. It would have mattered little whether the Titanic after hitting the ice berg, was being guided by the first mate or it's proper captain;
  the end result would be the same ! The proper Captain may delay the sinking for a time, but the outcome was inevitable..
     Our ship of state, our great nation, was founded upon Christian principles..by Christian men. Our nation has been blessed by Almighty God, for about it's first 200
   years, simply because we had a mission to fulfill; and we have failed in that mission.
         We have been so blessed, both spiritually and materially, that over those first 200 years we became quite complacent . Many enjoyed the material blessings and ignored the
   spiritual blessings...and responsibilities..
       
     " Having undertaken for the glory of God and advancement of the Christian faith..."  (first sentence of the Mayflower Compact, our nation's "birth certificate"  1620)

     " It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"..(G. Washington)

    " What student would learn in school above all, is the religion of Jesus Christ."   G. Washington ( to Deleware Chiefs..May 12, 1779)

   "We have been assured in the sacred writings.. 'Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it' ".  (Benj Franklin, addressing Constitutional convention 1787)

   " Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people, it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other".  (John Adams 10/11/1798

   " It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often, that this nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ !"
        ( Patrick Henry, addressing the Virginia House of Burgesses, May 1765)
 
         As pointed out in the well researched book, THE LIGHT AND THE GLORY  by the one-time Senate Chaplin Peter Marshall, the very origins and founding of this nation were
   all a part of God's plan, just as the nation if Israel was in times past. We can see how time and again, the Jews had their times of closeness to God and the nation prospered.
  Then there were the times when in their affluence and smugness, they forgot their God...and he allowed their enemies to bring them down.
   Do we see a pattern ?
   Sometimes, with a good and faithful leader such as Josiah, God offered them a reprieve...but if they still did not repent and return..the die was cast..a humbling and either
   actual or economic slavery..
           Too many today have turned away from God in their "education sophistication" to be able to preserve the blessings we once enjoyed, for about 200 years..
    The last 30 years or so, many Americans have been much engrossed in digging our own pit ! We now take for "normal", disgusting sins and perversions that not only our founding
   fathers condemned, but our God considered as "abominations". In some cases we have fallen so far that we have made laws to protect such disgraceful conduct !
    Well, the  Congress can make all kinds of laws protecting such practices from men who find such sin repugnant, but their laws cannot protect them from an angry God !
     God directly addresses both the educationally sophisticated and the depraved in  (Romans chapter 1) a good read !
 
   Unbelievers may point out all the phony cult leaders and "preachers" (such as Rev Wright) they they care to, we are well aware of them, having been warned 2,000 years ago
  in  ( Matt 7:15).
       Yes, we are in for some bleak future..and I don't know if a sudden revival can save the situation now ! In any case, there will still be those that still "don't get it", and that
   may well be enough to seal the nations fate !

    Some unbelievers like to call it "Karma'..nationally, just another word for God's justice..we have seen it work with the Jews (God's chosen) and it can work as well with
  America (God's blessed).
    Still doubting God's special relationship with the Jews ? Notice: After national destruction and a  2,000 year diaspora, the Jews retained their language, customs and faith ...
   and now have a homeland,something no other nation has ever done...SELAH (means, pause:think about that).... 

    Again, just my $.02..take it or trash it !  ..but don't say I never told you !

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Excellent post. Just as satan used mohamed, satan used madyln ohare to destroy us. Our downward spiral started in 1963 when she got God banned from America. What you posted proves that our founding fathers never intended to exclude God from govt, but to form a govt based on Gods laws. The end result is libs, etc that are dragging America into the pit of depravity. Some of them are here and are the direct result of excluding God from their lives. Gotta leave for work. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

Very good post, IG.  And, of course, the zealot and soon others I'm sure got busy pointing fingers at others. But, of course, there's GOT to be somebody ELSE to blame. But the truth is we have all had a hand in this. No one has dragged America into a pit. America has gone willingly on rails greased by non-responsibility and easy living. 
The zealots want to blame others for excluding God from school and government as if that includes the home.  IMO, a child should get his moral and spiritual training at home.  By the time a child is 5 or 6, he should have a pretty good start on a sense of morals, self disclipline, and spirituality. And in a good home, those senses would be reinforces every day regardless of what he sees at school. Too much TV, not enough supervision.

I am not so biblical as you but I agree with the decay of America.  And I believe we have gone too far to recover.  I don't think we will survive like the Jews because we are not a race, we are a alliance of folks from around the world.  If America dissolves, we will immediately polarize. Look at the USSR when it dissolved.  Africa when colonialism left. 

[Hooker]

IG excellent post sir

Pat

[zombiewolf]

Ironglow wrote," Our ship of state, our great nation, was founded upon Christian principles..by Christian men. Our nation has been blessed by Almighty God, for about it's first 200."


Oh really?



"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter."

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

How did Jefferson feel about the people of his day who were the equivalent of our modern day penecostals? You know, those revelation reveling tongue speaking idiots...

It is between fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.... what has no meaning admits no explanation.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Alexander Smyth, January 17, 1825

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites." - Thomas Jefferson

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." - John Adams

"So far as religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake. Religion is all bunk." - Thomas Alva Edison

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).


-John Adams, U.S. President, Founding Father of the United States

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?"

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."



I could go on....

Ok  just one more...

‘The Government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion.’ - John Adams, 2nd President of the United States

[Hooker]

Zombiewolf TM7 take it easy now your antagonistic tones are not becoming.
ZW invoking the ire of Christians will gain you nothing. The true Christians will have pity on you and the false one will have you arguing with fools.
TM7 if anyone thinks that there was a benefit that came from 9/11 I truly feel sorry for them. The wanton killing of innocent people is a vile thing, to think that one could benefit from it is the most lowly form of thinking. To think that money and power are a benefit in light of this is a measure of a mans lack of character. The truth is defined by connecting facts not scattered coincidence and theory.

Pat

[powderman]

HOOKER. Good post, agreed Sir. For ANYBODY to think that any American, individual, or company, would intentionally help Godless scum like that for money, is sick, and repulsive to all decent folks.  POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  Zombiewolf;
  Suit yourself, one doesn't have to believe in the hydrogen bomb to be vaporized by it ! FYI..we Christians often speak of those who practice "religion", in the same way John Adams did in his day..The statement credited to Thos Edison, standing alone, I could probably agree with !
  
  Jefferson indeed did have trouble with the fully vested Christian view of the triune God, but he was not so dimwitted to imply that there was no God !
  
   Although I have not seen such negative terms from Abraham Lincoln as you claim, if such were said, he definitely changed his mind, becoming saved shortly before his
   assassination.
   I would expect that if you got those phrases from an atheist website; likely they were lifted from the forefathers writings selectively..not using the whole, explanatory
   sentence. These could just as easily have been these forefathers QUOTING an unbeliever..and atheists have no compunction over "modifying" it !
     When a patriot from the north told Lincoln during the civil war, that he hoped the "Lord is on our side".. Lincoln chided him , saying, "I am not at all concerned about that; but it is
  my constant anxiety and prayer that I and the nation should be on the Lord's side" . During the depth of the war Lincoln said.." so often I have been driven to my knees (in prayer),
   because I had nowhere else to go !".
   Read his Gettysburg Address...
   IF and I say IF John Adams did say he was not in favor of "religion"...and all kinds of esoteric dogmas, creeds and doctrines..I may agree with him. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not
   all that convoluted and complicated..
   Just remember, it was John Adams that told British Major Pitcairn on the night before the fateful confrontation at Concord, " We recognize no sovereign but God and no King but Jesus !".

   You can dig up all the misquotes from atheist websites you wish, the actions of our forefathers speak so much louder than atheist claims, that I cannot hear the atheist shrieks...

    Hey; but please yourself..Jesus only stands at the door and knocks (Rev 3:20), he won't force you to accept him and I wouldn't either..Free will is an important concept !
            

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Yep, God gave us all free will, good or evil, right or wrong. I love a sign I saw outside a church, it said, where will you spend eternity??? Smoking, or non smoking??? Loved it. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

TM, Wolf, Wolf, Wolf!!

[zombiewolf]

Ohhh now you want to pull out the "A" word. Well lemme tell ya, I'm not an "...ist" and I subscribe to no " isms ".
I aspire to be a free thinker.
Politicians and leaders of industry tend to be an arrogant lot. They go around spewing quotes willynilly.
The point is, if you want to use quotes from the founding fathers to support your christian agenda, there will be other quotes that counter. Often from the same guy.

BTW, our founding fathers weren't the little angels some folks make them out to be.
They all held slaves, and check out what Ben Franklin was doing over at the "Hellfire club"

[ironglow]

   Zombie;
  i would suppose we all know that the forefathers had certain human failings and the "Hellfire Club' is no secret! Human beings are fallible, that is why God gave us a
   "way out", so to speak; a chance to "cop a plea". We each have choices to make,and apparently we each have made our choice.
       If I recall correctly, this discussion started not because I ridiculed your unbelief, but rather ..because you tried to ridicule the belief of many folks here ! You go on
  complain that I used the "A" word, (e.g. atheist, could as easily been agnostic). Do those terms offend you ? As an apparent unbeliever, what term would you prefer ?
    I find your reaction to semantics puzzling, being a Christian, I don't mind that you use the "C" word.
    As to being a "free thinker", of course I don't know your case...but so many "free thinkers" I have met have not been free thinkers at all, but rather a captive intellect
    to one, or a number of other "free thinkers" such as, Jean Paul Sartre, Hegel, Jung, Marx, Engels, Voltaire, Aristotle or some college instructor that knows little of real life.

     I find it particularly intriguing that the self proclaimed Christians and conservatives, both in these forums and in real life, seem to have a much more sanguine attitude
   than the "A" (choose your own "A" word) folks or the liberals. The C & C people seem to be a bit more positive and little less hostile, while the A&L types have much
   more pent up anger, and see a sinister plot behind nearly everything. 
      Examples: Not bad enough that a dog bites a man, but that dog MUST have been trained by the CIA who were acting at the personal direction of Geo W. Bush.
                    Not bad enough that some Muslim crazies killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11, somehow they were in on an FBI plot..like the FBI wants to break the US..

    "Free thinkers" like that, are mental captives of Niccolo Machiavelli...LOL

        In any case, enjoy your "A-ness" in whatever type A-ness you may be...

[beemanbeme]

TM, IG makes a good point. Contrary to modern belief, blame cannot always be fixed on one person, or make that read one government person, nor does every event have behind it a cabal that networks around the globe.  Often it is just a single or a few crazies that believe those voices they hear are divine instructions. Hell, it ain't no different than some of the folks in here. And don't forget that good old Oklahoma saying: "Sh*t happens".

And too, I believe too often, this clamoring for "closure" (@#!!*#! I hate that word) and "to have a few questions answered" is money and lawyer driven.  The best and the brightest quarterbacks show up on monday morning.

[SHOOTALL]

Can't buy the one or two crazies when it has been going on for so so long ! But then i don't believe in the Easter Bunny either !

[beemanbeme]

Wait a minute.  I mostly get the paper, and it's the Charleston Gazette so what more can you expect, for the funnies and the crossword puzzle, so I'm not up on the latest conspiracies it seems.

TM7, are you saying that the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon was co-ordinated and planned or at least instigated by the United States Government so we could invade Iraq? Are you saying the United States Government had any hand at all in the Twin Tower and Pentagon attack?  Are you saying that the United States Government planned the murder of over 3,000 of its citizens as an expedient to go to war with Iraq.  Please tell me I am very, very confused. 

[powderman]

BEEMANBEME. Thats what he is saying. GW ordered the fbi, cia, etc to murder 3,000 of our own people so he could invade iraq, but Israel made him do it. POWDERMAN.

[Hooker]

TM7 I do not know of anyone getting fired over this, but hopefully those who dropped the ball  at least have their heads in the game now.
What I do know is that Governmental Agencies were not sharing information. No one can say that had they been sharing we could have foiled the terrorist's plans, but it would have greatly improved  our odds. Sadly it seems these agencies have not learned anything from this. Although they have created more agencies that do things the same old way.
As for that mile wide trail, remember it is much easier to see where the herd has been than see where it is going.

Pat

[ironglow]

  Anyone care to make an estimate ?

    Scenario: "W" decides to go to war, so he gets some demolition company to plant bombs and incendiary devices all through both World Trade Center buildings.
       Of course, he would have to get  liaison (or several) to approach the demolition co and retain them to do the job, since this "demolition" was so complete..
   a batch of amateurs out of the CIA couldn't have done it !
   Then, the demolition company would have to move in..say, at least 200 explosives handlers at the least and plant 1,000 charges at minimum. Of course, any
  "Acme Demolitions Co" trucks parked in the underground garage MAY raise suspicions..so they would need a few U-Hauls or Ryders..say in the 1.5 ton range.
       Of course, it would take many days, the charges would have to be placed throughout the buildings, taped to vertical members and secured at critical joints.
   This would require WTC security to "turn a blind eye", along with the firemen, who entered the building before the final series of explosions that brought the
    buildings down, taking many of these same "conspirators" to their deaths .
       Then comes the many investigators involved in the aftermath would have to be on the take..any idea how may different investigators, from how many different
  agencies combed through the wreckage ...
       Also, the thousands of witnesses on the streets of New York City, citizens, cab drivers, firemen, businessmen, ...cops and news people..who are both
   trained observers. Are you saying they didn't see what they say they saw, and were paid off ! ..Or are you saying that the Muslim murderers were all in cahoots with
   the CIA,. and willingly to die, while doing the CIA's bidding ?
       In the WTC destruction, I can see where at least several thousand people would have to been in on the plan...with nobody whispering a word before the deed
   and no "death bed confessions" since, and with all the conspiracy groups investigating since, having found no one ready to "fess up" their part in the greatest
  conspiracy of all time.
     So much for the WTC events ! Wouldn't that alone have been enough of an excuse for going to war, without further destruction ?  ..And if the plan was one of
   going to war, wouldn't it be self-defeating to bomb the Pentagon, nerve center of our war making capacity ? Wouldn't the Lincoln or Washington monuments
  have been just as able to produce rage in the American people ! ...And what of the people who talked to loved ones who died in that crash..and where are those
  who died..just in case you think the plane was a mirage ?  Of course, the airline that owned the plane would wonder what became of their property, or if there was
   no plane involved, then the airline would wonder what plane they were talking about ! So, the airline in question and the ATC personnel that watched them fly into
   the Pentagon, would have to be in on the game !...To say nothing about  Ted Olson, the President's solicitor general, who lost his beloved wife Barbara, on that plane !
   Guess he just didn't want her any more !
         
    Was the crash into a cornfield in Pennsylvania really needed ? After all..the WTC, then the Pentagon, how much more provocation was needed?  Here again, the
  families and loved ones that talked to their own before the plane went down. Not just Todd "let's roll" Beamer and Jeremy Glick, but the dozens of others also !
   Would you have us to believe that on that plane were those many people , randomly assembled passengers, attendants, engineers and pilots who had families that
   were willing to write their loved ones off for some CIA scheme ?..Or would you rather, we believe that several Muslim terrorists willingly dove an airliner into a PA
  cornfield, just to help the CIA ?

        Added to the thousands of conspirators who have maintained perfect silence all these years after the WTC destruction, how many thousand more are required
   to maintain a flawless record of secrecy concerning the Pentagon & cornfield crashes ?   Care to estimate ?

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Pretty good, now ya think like tm, and heather. You missed a vital part of the whole GW plan. Ya forgot to tell about Israels part in the murder of our people, they had to be at the root of all this ya know. Did they promise to take out iran??? Maybe they said they'd be guinea pigs for the Godless ones to test their rockets on. Coulda been lots of things. Whatta ya think??? POWDERMAN. 

[kevthebassman]

IRONGLOW. Pretty good, now ya think like tm, kev, and heather.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I do not buy the 9-11 conspiracy theory.

[beemanbeme]

Even at the medium sized airport at which I worked, there were NO unattended cars nor vans nor trucks left curbside.  Even UPS had to have a driver and a runner to sit curb side and drop off packages.  And the folks that left their cars "for just a minute" despite the warning signs posted everywhere were very surprised to return and find their cars, not ticketed, but towed away.

Every so often you read about some small time ring (usually in NYC or ORD or some other large city) of baggage handlers stealing from luggage or doing small time smuggling.  If the FBI or local security can sniff out these petty crooks, how could a big time operations go undetected?  The companies themselves and the various agencies have plants don't you know. And, as any security person will tell you, whether its access, goods, money, or whathaveyou, it's the newbie that "thinks" he knows the system that is the real sitting duck.

 So was the entire FBI corrupted?  Was there not one FBI agent that was privy to the info that felt a dedication to duty and America?  Every employee of American and United had been bought off?  The idea is preposterous.

I put the folks that perpatrate crap like that right up there with PETA and Sara Brady and Rev Wright and Rev Sharpton and their white counterparts and the other hate mongers and one note johnnies.  If you dig deep enough in their septic tank you'll find they are making a lotsa bucks and living the good life. Preying on the fears, insecurities, and secret hates of the tinfoil hatted types that hear voices in their ears.

I'm a realist. I know there are hateful people in the world.  That feel they are owed something. They weren't picked first for the team. That had tough childhoods. Hell, being a child is tough.  But most of us outgrew it and become tough adults. Willing to make tough decisions; make tough choices. But some didn't. They grew older but not up. They became whiners; fixers of blame; pointers of fingers.  And constantly looked for ways to get back at the world for not picking them first, for not recognizing their genius.  

The very idea of a vast network of these hateful people being able to be elected to the highest reaches of our government and to be employed in the highest reaches of Cor portate America and to then come together and contrive to murder over 3000 American citizens makes my heart hurt. I just can't imagine it happening.

[billy_56081]

"2. Why were the extensive missile batteries and air defenses reportedly deployed around the Pentagon not activated during the attack?"

This one I can answer from personal experience. I being a veteran of the United States Army,  Air Defense Branch. The plane was flying to low. Stingers will not fire when not elevated more than 10 or 20 degrees (excuse me but its been 17 years) I can't remember the exact number. The reason for this is the missile will hit the ground before the primary motor kicks in. Being the marines with stingers are stationed on top of the buildings their missiles are no good for a low level attack.

TM7 your hate America theme is getting sickening. Sure your freedom of speech is allowed in America, but no one likes a whiner. Why don't you run for political office since so many Americans believe in your silly kindergarten "conspiracy" you should be a shoe in. Obviously you would be laughed off the stage at a debate if you brought such a silly notion up in one. Lets here what great ideas you have for America instead of your constant whining and crying.

[beemanbeme]

To begin with I am not about to pose as an "expert". Most of the "experts" are the ones that pop up on talk shows after the fact.  Seems to me that standard hijack procedures were followed. In that the Captain of the aircraft is in charge and basically as far as the hijackers are concerned, you do what they want as long as you are able.  Most hijacking end up with an aircraft diversion or with a "peaceful" resolution once the hijackers have had their 15 minutes. If this doesn't jibe with what your "experts" say, perhaps you can tell me what "standard" hijack procedure is. It happens so seldom that in 40 years, I was only involved in one. It was diverted to Cuba, Castro put the folks up in a hotel, fed them, and sent them back the next day. It was all a big lark and when they arrived, there were TV cameras and talking heads and everybody got their time on stage and had a big-eyed time.

Everyday there are a number of judgement calls that have to be made about a number of things. A drooler calls up and sez "I'm gonna blow up an airplane" and hasn't a clue as to airline or flight number or airport, etc. Do you shut down the industry?  Some zithead calls up and sez a bomb is planted in XXX highschool set to go off when Mrs Murphy give her Algebra test.  Do you evacuate the school? How many postal holidays were gained by a lazy postal worker with a can of talcum powder?  In the case of the radar blips, to a radar operator, a blip is a blip.  There are myriads of small single and twin engine aircraft operating out of private and small commercial fields all up and down the east coast.  Actually, all acrost the USA. And, pilots, being the arrogant pricks they are, especially the newbies, look at filing flight plans as a PIA. "hell, I'm just jumping down to Norfolk to go fishing...." and so you have at any given time a number of unidentified blips floating around. If you scrambled at every unidentified blip, you'd have a fighter squadron in the air all the time.  And so the radar guys try to raise the pilot, lets other planes in the area know about where it is and play a waiting game as long as the blip isn't near a no-fly zone.  The pilots know this and ignore the calls and go merrily on their way.  

As far as Bush is concerned, I think playing it kewl was kewl.  What would you suggest?  The SS run in, grab him and scream "My God, they're blowing up every @#!!&* thing. We're getting your a$$ under ground and we're going with you.  You little dwarfs are on your own!"  What did Giuliani do?  He went to a ball game. To show that New Yorkers are tough. It wasn't the end of the world.  Only later, when the whiners, the blame fixers, the lawyers wanting "closure" showed up was there problems. And it, of course, was over money.

Actually, there's no point in answering your questions. Because there will never be enough answers; never enough logic. There's always a dark, sinister figure glimpsed fleeing, another shot heard echoing from a distant hill.  There will never be a time when "it is what it is" as long as you say, "It isn't what I want it to be".

I posted my other post before you posted your questions.  And your questions don't answer my question which was pretty simple:  Do you believe this crap you're posting?  That high ranking American leaders conspired to murder over 3000 American citzens?  A simple, straight forward question.  Don't try to impress me with your skills as a rhetorician but rather give me a simple straight forward answer.  

[billy_56081]

"Billy,,,c'mon now,,,you saying that all an enemy has to do is slip a missile just 10 feet off the ground to hit one of our installations and there is nothing we can do except watch, and this leaves the high value pentacon/personnel defenseless, and there is no override or other weapons for striking such enemy targets after two hits in NYC....yeah Okay that makes sense...  And that NORAD at their shoelaces tied together too."

Again I speak from personal knowledge and experience and you come back with your kindergarten level hate/ blame America blather. Come now TM7 once again your blather shows you are very well educated but in terms of real knowledge or experience in life. When faced with a fact you try to twist it or claim it is not true. You definitely would have been a great asset to your hero Hitler in the propaganda department. I think everyone is tiring of your hate America/ hate Israel Neo Nazi gibberish you spout off here.  I'm sure a some filthy muslim vermin is slitting your throat you will still think it is one of your kindergarten dreamworld fantasy "conspiracies". Turn off the lone gunman and Xfile reruns for a little bit and get back to reality. Or have you as you say "have a smoke and relax" to many times and your stuck in a world somewhere between fantasy and reality?

[beemanbeme]

Once again you used a whole lot of words to say absolutely nothing.  You talk about courage but haven't the balls to say, "Yes I do" or "No I don't".  

I answered the questions I knew something about. Like for instance hijack prcedures.  About which you stood mute after implying knowledge.  

Do I believe what I write?  Yes, I do!  Do I think our government, with its elected offices, and checks and balances, is incapable of mounting the sort of conspiracy you hint at but haven't the balls to say.  Yes, I do!  Do I think you are so full of organic fertilizer that your eyes are brown. Yes, I do!

Nixon, Ford, and Carter. Now tell me that ain't a set to draw to.  Ford:  "I don't think he did nothin' wrong, but if'n he did, I'm gonna excuse him 'cause he's lettin' me be President".  Thereby insuring his place in history as even more pitiful than Carter.