Author Topic: New Ruger is a Keltec? (Read 7175 times)

BullyDawg19 · « **on:** April 24, 2008, 08:29:50 AM »

i was just looking at the ruger website and studying the specs for the new LCP and low and behold - it looked like a keltec with a few changes to dress it up. look at the pins, the slide, the aluminum frame inside the grip. anybody else see this?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:27:38 AM »

Not being funny , how different could it be ?
think about it Sig, Glock , Beretta , S&W etc.etc. all use a browning lock up . When you get down to it there are very few unique features in hand guns .
you want a gun like J James , 10 different co. make them , check out a 1911 , or a bolt action rifle . a S&W revolver built in 1917 and to day are alot alike .
it seems the guru's are trying to make guns that cost less today . and as the bells and whistles are stripped away they start getting more alike .

BullyDawg19 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:50:07 AM »

i certainly agree with you - i was just somehwat suprised that ruger would use the keltec platform for their first "pocket pistol". they could've gone with any number of design features. to me it looks like all they did was change the grip and the extractor setup from the P3AT. im suprised they didnt go with something scaled down like colt did with their mustang 380's. a 1/2 scale p95 or something. even a scaled down version of the sr9. i dont know - it just suprises me somewhat.

35Rem · « **Reply #3 on:** April 24, 2008, 10:28:02 AM »

The hard work has been (the design) Why spend thousands on a design when there is something out there that works?

44 Man · « **Reply #4 on:** April 24, 2008, 01:22:49 PM »

I just hope they are paying Kel-tec a royality! 44 Man

nilescoyote · « **Reply #5 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:38:47 PM »

Quote from: BullyDawg19 on April 24, 2008, 08:29:50 AM

i was just looking at the ruger website and studying the specs for the new LCP and low and behold - it looked like a keltec with a few changes to dress it up. look at the pins, the slide, the aluminum frame inside the grip. anybody else see this?

Good, I'm not the only one that noticed this.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2008, 01:12:23 AM »

So I guess now its a price war ?

35Rem · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2008, 04:15:09 AM »

Quote from: 44 Man on April 24, 2008, 01:22:49 PM

I just hope they are paying Kel-tec a royality! 44 Man

Oh yeah. Ask Smith and Wesson what happens when you don't! (the Sigma was a knock off Glock)

Ron T. · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2008, 02:11:23 PM »

Something in the Ruger's design causes it to weigh almost 2 ounces more than the P3AT... and 2 ounces in a 7.6 ounce P3AT is a considerable "difference".

But I agree, the new Ruger "LOOKS" just like my P3AT... except for that unexplained 2 ounces of difference in weight !!!

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

bscman · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2008, 11:49:38 AM »

The Keltec is not a protected design, so Ruger has no reason to pay them anything.

Admittedly, they did "reverse engineer" the keltec to gain many of the ideas they used in designing the LCP.

All and all, it's VERY similar...just with a nicer trigger pull and a little better build. Some of the added weight comes from the "beefier" slide.

The increase in quality is very apparent with the LCP...and oddly, they are selling for about $10 cheaper than the keltec in my neck of the woods.

Lotsa rumors out there regardin the LCP...

greenjeans · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2008, 01:52:18 PM »

I've heard that Kel-Tec has no patents on any of their firearms. The Ruger does look lots better and supposedly better reliability, but my 1st generation P3AT has been faultless since the first couple of mags so gonna hang onto it. Looks like a couple of improvements that were really needed. The guide rod holder is a part of the slide rather than a separate piece and the ejector doesn't fall out so easily. I have hunted both parts on my P3AT more than once.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** April 29, 2008, 01:24:17 AM »

no matter what it looks like it is still a 380 .

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 29, 2008, 12:11:43 PM »

looked at both side by side today.. they are both kel tec .380 . i could see no difference..

torpedoman · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2008, 05:51:42 PM »

get a makarov

nilescoyote · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2008, 10:06:54 PM »

Quote from: torpedoman on April 30, 2008, 05:51:42 PM

get a makarov

If you are willing to get into the size of the makarov you may as well go with a handgun that is chambered for 9mm or 40cal. Kahr arms and the big brother of the P3at will are two that quickly come to mind, but then we are no longer looking at pocket pistols...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2008, 02:06:32 AM »

makarov , nice gun if you don't mind a gun that can fire if dropped . why carry unsafe when safe is aval. ?

Ray Cover · « **Reply #16 on:** May 08, 2008, 01:38:34 PM »

How does a mak go off when dropped? I am sitting here looking at mine and the safety blocks the hammer.

Ray

doubleaes2 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 08, 2008, 01:48:23 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on May 01, 2008, 02:06:32 AM

makarov , nice gun if you don't mind a gun that can fire if dropped . why carry unsafe when safe is aval. ?

I think he is mentioning this because the Mak uses a floating firing pin.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2008, 02:19:07 AM »

that's right and if you carry one you should be aware of it that's all . In today's court happy world it may matter to some .

SharonAnne · « **Reply #19 on:** May 20, 2008, 09:51:56 AM »

there are very few 'patentable' things in firearms. for a patent it must be NEW. look around. most firearms designs have been in use for decades. the glock trigger block was new. but most patents run out at 20 years.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2008, 07:27:21 AM »

can t be no better than my keltec .380 .. it does everything an gun like this is suppose to do.. just don t over lube it [no lub on mine] and wait for it to break in..very very dependable..[i did customize my grip to fit my hand] thats one thing you have to have in a protection gun.. the cheapest rnd for practice ive found is the flat nosed winchester 95 grn.. its also my choice to knock the bad guy dn .. mine will put this rnd thru an five inch cedar post..time after time..

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2008, 03:20:01 PM »

I would like more info on how you customized your grip. I am thinking of doing the same to mine. Pictures would be great.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** July 15, 2008, 08:29:52 AM »

fill a gallon jug up with water and shoot it , humans have more water in um than dried out cedar .

funshooter2 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 26, 2008, 06:04:22 AM »

What I think is funny is all the Kel-Tec bashers that are running out and buying the Ruger just because it is a Ruger.

I think the slide locks after the last round is fired, which is handy.
Think I'll keep my P3AT, since it has been 100% relieable and KT has better politics than the ~~Clinton~~...I mean Ruger Execs do. I'd buy a used Ruger though, maybe.

nodlenor · « **Reply #24 on:** October 26, 2008, 01:17:28 PM »

That extra 2oz is probably because of the better metal used in the Ruger. I wouldn't buy a used Kel-tec.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #25 on:** October 26, 2008, 03:30:00 PM »

Quote from: nodlenor on October 26, 2008, 01:17:28 PM

That extra 2oz is probably because of the better metal used in the Ruger. I wouldn't buy a used Kel-tec.

I guess that's why the LCP's are going through trigger bars like toilet paper at a chili cookoff

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=363437

nodlenor · « **Reply #26 on:** October 26, 2008, 04:19:44 PM »

I don't own a LCP but I own 5 other Rugers with no problem at all with any of them and one of them is about 40 years old. I've owned one Kel-tec and that was enough.

danza · « **Reply #27 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:17:52 PM »

heck...i considered the ruger LCP and the kel tec is not available here...i ended up with a springfield armory xd-sub compact in 9mm.

it's not exactly a "pocket" pistol but is very easily carried concealed and it has the full on 9mm AND is highly accurate.

i have a hard time with anything lower than the 9mm in caliber for, even, close encounters, though. it seems that the shorter the tube and smaller caliber, the less the "power" delivered to a target.

i AM NOT bashing or bad mouthing anything of a lesser caliber, though...personal choice is what it's about.

Ron T. · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2008, 03:26:34 AM »

Since my last post on this thread on April 27, 2008... I attended the NRA's National Convention in Louisville, Ky... and handled the new little LCP Ruger.

I noticed the barrel extension is much heavier which undoubltedly accounts for some (if not "all") of the weight difference between the Kel-Tec P3AT and the Ruger LCP.

The Ruger is nicely finished and appeared to be a fine little pistol except for one thing. I do NOT have large hands... but I found that I could only get ONE FINGER around the Ruger's handle vs. TWO FINGERS around the handle on my P3AT.

Yep... Ruger apparently SHORTENED the handle on their LCP... and "why" I don't know. One NEEDS at least TWO fingers on the handle of the "mouse gun" to control it's recoil to insure you can hold onto it during repeated firings.

I asked the Ruger factory "Rep" about this and he said that Ruger intends to bring out "extended magazines" with a "finger hold" on the bottom of it for the LCP... and I thought to myself, "Yeah... exactly what is needed in a pocket pistol... something to 'catch' on clothing as it is drawn out to be used in an emergency!!!" (NOT !!!)

Now... before you think I'm "knocking" Ruger... I have purchased 8 different Ruger firearms and believe Ruger makes great guns, but shortening that handle on the LCP wasn't a "genius" idea... definitely NOT one of Ruger's better thoughts... trust me !!!

Would I buy the LCP or another Kel-Tec P3AT? It's a "toss-up" in my mind. While the shorter handle on the LCP is a pain-in-the-tush... and I've heard Ruger is having a bit of a problem with the LCP jamming, I'm confident Ruger will work it out since the LCP IS a "Ruger".

My P3AT is one of the "original" models... and while it functions perfectly when fired, it won't feed rounds with BIG hollow-points like the Federal "HI-SHOCKS" or the Cor-Bons when the slide is manually functioned, but I have come to the conclusion that this is how tiny "pocket pistols" work with hollow points... and while I haven't tried it, I bet most of the LCPs won't manually feed those same hollow-points any better than my Kel-Tec.

The "bottom line" is that I'm gonna hold onto my P3AT which I carry "24/7" when outside the house. (Yes, "Martha", I have a valid CCW permit)

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:30:34 AM »

oh heck if they made the handle smaller than keltec did i dont know if i could get it big enough for me to control . kel tec took a bunch of electric tape and a grip cove before i could controll it . now i hit what i want to and this thing don t print in my pocket..its really made for real small hands in my opinion..an thats alright.