Effect of body heat on ammo?

[His lordship.]

I have one of those .22 RF mini-revolvers made by Freedom Arms.  After carrying the gun in my pocket for several months, I had shot the gun at the range and had multiple misfires.  Believing that my body heat was killing the primers, I now replace the ammo with fresh every 2 months when the gun is carried, no more misfires.

Is the ammo in .22 RF that sensitive, or is it a weak hammer spring?  As this gun was made in the 1980's when stainless steel was not so good, there is an indentation on the hammer where the firing pin has has made a crater, I suspect that the firing pin is not getting the benefit of a full hit, but it is fine when the ammo is rotated.  Alot of people carry small handguns in .22 RF and has anyone noticed the misfires in theirs when the pistol is carrying close to the body? 

Thanks.

[KN]

100 degrees won't hurt a thing. Now if you are drowning it in sweat, well maybe.    KN

[kevthebassman]

I think it's more likely to be gun oil getting to the primers. 

I had an old box of .22 ammo that sat in the center console of my car for two full years, through two hot Missouri summers.  Went and fired that ammo and didn't have a single misfire out of 40 or so shots.

Likewise, a buddy of mine that I coyote hunt with had a little beretta in .22 lr, and we had occasion to use it when coyote hunting to put down a cripple.  All but two shots in the dang thing were misfires.... and with quality ammo too.  This gun stayed loaded in his safe for a few months after getting a good cleaning.  I'd stake money that oil got to the primers.

[His lordship.]

Aren't .22 RF cartridges sealed up?  There is no primer hole, the cartridge is solid up to the point where the bullet is pressed in.

Lt. George in his book, mentioned a Jap soldier who shot at them in the bushes with dead primers in a baby Nambu pistol, the gun misfired as each American soldier walked by, they could hear the "click" sound but the gun did not go off.  After shooting the Japanese guy, George checked the ammo and the primers were all oily.

[Savage]

Just bad ammo, that's what caused the misfires. Not oil or moisture, and certainly not body heat. Rimfire ammo has a certain amount of misfires. One of many good reasons it's not commonly used for serious social encounters. Lately, it seems Remington has the most misfires, and CCI has the least. At least in my experience and observations.
Savage

[kevthebassman]

Aren't .22 RF cartridges sealed up?  There is no primer hole, the cartridge is solid up to the point where the bullet is pressed in.

Lt. George in his book, mentioned a Jap soldier who shot at them in the bushes with dead primers in a baby Nambu pistol, the gun misfired as each American soldier walked by, they could hear the "click" sound but the gun did not go off.  After shooting the Japanese guy, George checked the ammo and the primers were all oily.

There's enough of a gap for gun oil to creep into the case.  Time and an excess of oil is all that's required for that oil to spread out and eventually make it's way into the powder and primer.  Bad ammo could possibly be it, but when this happened to me, it was 8 shells out of 10 that were bad.  Federal ammo is better than that, gun oil is the culprit.

[nilescoyote]

Your body heat most likely has very little to do with it. Sweat, moisture,  vibration and extreme temperature changes will play a bigger role.

At my last qualification we used our M4's (ar-15) which most are kept in the trucks of our patrol cars. We found that the extreme temps and vibration they were subjected to would cause misfires. Now ammo is changed out monthly and weapons are no longer kept in the trucks.

[Savage]

Your body heat most likely has very little to do with it. Sweat, moisture,  vibration and extreme temperature changes will play a bigger role.

At my last qualification we used our M4's (ar-15) which most are kept in the trucks of our patrol cars. We found that the extreme temps and vibration they were subjected to would cause misfires. Now ammo is changed out monthly and weapons are no longer kept in the trucks.

Strange! Never had that problem with our patrol rifles! I hauled mine around for years in the trunk, with a stash of extra loaded mags. Didn't have any misfires, and don't recall anyone else having misfires either. We carried Winchester "Ballistic Tips". Don't know what you guys are issued, but I'd say the ammo is suspect.

Just for fun, drop a couple of .22 rounds in a cup of oil and a couple more in a cup of water. Let them set all night, then clean and dry the rounds. Load um up and try them out. It just might be an eye opener!
Savage

[rockbilly]

Oil in a .22 causing a misfire?  Sounds "fishy" to me.  I carried a .22 revolver and a box of .22s in a tool box under the seat in my boat for years, in that same tool box was a plastic bottle of oil. After bouncing around for many years, and down many rough roads, I took the gun and ammo out one day to shoot turtles.  The ammo box was coming to pieces from being soaked with leaking oil, the ammo was well covered too.  I loaded the gun and fired 10-12 times that day and never had a misfire.  I left the gun and ammo out, cleaned the gun when I got home, wiped the ammo off and put it in an old medicine bottle.  I later fired that ammo, still no misfire. 

This ammo was fairly well soaked in oil and created no problem, that coupled with the heat from storage in the boat should have taken its toll on the ammo, but caused no problem at all. 

[kevthebassman]

Oil in a .22 causing a misfire?  Sounds "fishy" to me.  I carried a .22 revolver and a box of .22s in a tool box under the seat in my boat for years, in that same tool box was a plastic bottle of oil. After bouncing around for many years, and down many rough roads, I took the gun and ammo out one day to shoot turtles.  The ammo box was coming to pieces from being soaked with leaking oil, the ammo was well covered too.  I loaded the gun and fired 10-12 times that day and never had a misfire.  I left the gun and ammo out, cleaned the gun when I got home, wiped the ammo off and put it in an old medicine bottle.  I later fired that ammo, still no misfire. 

This ammo was fairly well soaked in oil and created no problem, that coupled with the heat from storage in the boat should have taken its toll on the ammo, but caused no problem at all. 

Strange.  Was it gun oil, or some other type?  Maybe a more viscous oil won't creep the way gun oil will. 

[jeep08ham]

I do not think it is body heat.  Now as to the oil, there are so many types of gun oil and cleaning solvents that will definitely create missfires.    I have not done extensive testing but as time allows, think I will go over my oil, lubes and cleaning compounds.   I know from past experience I have had missfires and when I pulled the bullets, found the powder sticking together and did not appear to be individual flakes of powder.  My theory is that some of this oil, or cleaning solvent can and will migrate into the powder.

[williamlayton]

I think it was the cosmos in misalignment--well, maybe, Murphy. 
Blessings

[Savage]

Well, couldn't stand it, so I dropped two rounds of bulk Federal .22 into a bowl of water and two into a bowl of 5w20 synthetic motor oil. They went in at 18:00 yesterday and out this AM at 06:00. I just dried them off and loaded them into a .22 revolver one at a time. The two that were underwater all night fired normally. The two that spent the 12hrs imersed in oil, fired but sounded like they were about half power. All bullets made it out of the barrel.  My totally unscientific conclusions:
Body perspiration and body oils from carrying a firearm in contact with the body would almost certainly NOT cause misfires in rimfire ammo. Having carried various types of ammo in the diamond plate tool box on my truck for years, I must conclude that the temperatures that probably ranged from near zero to in excess of 150 degrees, would establish that body heat would have Little or NO effect on ammo. We have to accept the fact that rimfire ammo has occasional misfires due to the sometimes uneven distribution of the priming compound in the rim. The questionable reliability is just one of the reasons the rimfire is not a good choice for self defense.
Savage

[SHOOTALL]

did not read it all but in the past many say the 22 RF will be the best thing for survival , others always counter that the seal of a HEEL type bullet does little to stop moisture from getting in and killing the primer or powder . In many cases you can move the bullet in a round of 22RF so they may have something !

[Mohawk]

  They call oils such as WD-40 and others penetrating oils but what they can penetrate I have no Idea. We used to replace our duty ammo every 180 days due to oil that can penetrate primers. Been a long time since that class but if I remember correctly it was the FBI that was in a firefight and they had ammo in their revolvers that had dead primers due to oil. I guess then it became a rule for some agencies. Of course, this is centerfire. I was always the oddball that carried a revolver so that advice stuck with me. The only misfires I have ever had with rimfire cartridges were a box of Winchester Wildcats that all fifty rounds were duds fresh from K-Mart back in the '80s. SHOOTALL has a good point about the .22 bullet. That would make sense. Certain viruses, so I've read, can penetrate porceline, so who knows.

[SHOOTALL]

MOHAWK , I read an article while in college that it was 2 New York police officers that got killed because they sprayed their revolvers with WD-40 each day , ammo and all , wanted to keep it from rusting . I was in college in 1974 , blue revolvers were the rage then .
Must have been nice to go to the range and not have to walk on empty cases !

[His lordship.]

Savage...thanks for doing the ammo test, I appreciate the info from all you guys.  It seems that rotating the ammo every few months with fresh is a wise thing to do with a self defense gun, weather it is centerfire or rimfire.

[Mohawk]

MOHAWK , I read an article while in college that it was 2 New York police officers that got killed because they sprayed their revolvers with WD-40 each day , ammo and all , wanted to keep it from rusting . I was in college in 1974 , blue revolvers were the rage then .
Must have been nice to go to the range and not have to walk on empty cases !

WOW!! Didn't remember that one. I think I would deal with the rust and a pad of steel wool or get a re-blueing job. I remember working humid nights on patrol and obtaining rust, literally, every hour, as you went from an air conditioned vehicle to the moist air. I quickly switched to a nickel S&W model 19 and later to a S&W model 10 nickel.

[SHOOTALL]

It was a shame that they had to learn that way .

[slim rem 7]

   my experience has been that 22 rf ammo is affected by time and humidity..
   at least remington cheap stuff is..had and old partial brick left ,and when i bought my little berretta at least a third were misfires.. bought a new box and no misfires..
 center fire, factory ammo seems to remain stable for many years tho..

[rockbilly]

Slim.  I am still shooting military ball 30-06 that was loaded in 1944.  I also purchased some mil-sup carbine ammo that was loaded in 1955.  Both batches shoot well, no misfires at all.  I also have a bunch of .38 wad-cutter that I loaded in 1986, they still shoot with no problem.  I think long time storage methods are important, all of my ammo is stored in military ammo cans.

[Savage]

Really poor storage conditions can degrade ammo over time. With centerfire ammo, I have shot military over 60yrs old that was stored under less than ideal conditions, without misfires. My (JIC) cache of ammo has sealed primers and bullets to protect it from long term storage. Haven't had much of a problem with rimfire either. There's probably some in the trunk of the car or the toolbox on the truck now that has been there a year or two. Probably 12-15 bricks stacked on top of my safe, (which is in a climate controlled area).  Haven't noticed a higher percentage of misfires for either source. I just did the little experiment with the water and oil to establish (in my mind) that perspiration and body oils would never be a factor in misfires, even with rimfire ammo.
Savage

[slim rem 7]

  i was talkin rimfire.. centerfire is a different thing altogather

[jeep08ham]

One of the penetrating oils that in my opinion that should never be used on a firearm is WD-40!!!!   I am sure that some may disagree but have found it to turn into a very tacky and later a gummy substance over time.  When first applied it works OK but with age, it deteriorates and forms a gunky gum.   

A friend was getting ready to go deer hunting and we went to the range to double check our scopes and sight in. He had sprayed his gun with WD-40 at the end of the previous season.  It was a 50 degree day and his firing pin would not hardly move. Primer was barely dented.  We removed and disassembled the bolt and the firing pin was almost frozen in place from the gunk. Cleaned it with alcohol and all was well.   Never used the WD-40 again on firearms and all has been well when using a good quality gun oil.

[SHOOTALL]

JEEP08HAM , Brownell's sent out a flier with some of their cat. that stated WD-40 should not be used on guns other than to stop the bluing process and help with the finish. I wish i could find a copy but it was in the 80's when i read it . It had some harding effect on metal parts .

[TOGO]

WD-40 is a solvent and should never be used to lubricate a firearm. I did however use WD-40 to aid in cleaning my SAW while in the Marine Corps. After firing a couple thousand round WD-40 a cleaning brush and super hot water cleans them up nicely.

[rockbilly]

WD-40 and CRC2 were developed primarily for water displacement, or to protect items from moisture.  It is effective as a lubricant, and has a thousand other uses, everything from a fish attractor to a treatment for arthritis. While working with Air Force Water Transportation out of Port O'Connor Texas we bought both by the 55 gallon drums, you could spray a water soaked ignition system or distributor and almost always get the motors to start.    I have used WD-40 on guns for years and never had a problem myself, however, after getting into a situation where she thought she needed her gun my wife removed her Mauser HSc from her purse and drove home with it in her lap.  When she arrived, she related her story to me and said I haven't fired my gun in several years, I want to go out tomorrow and shoot it.  The following day we went to the range, after setting her a target she picked the gun up, sighted it and pulled the trigger.  CLICK!  I cleared the gun and tried it myself, Click, Click.  I took the gun home and tore it down, it was jammed full of a sticky substance that felt a little grainy.  After looking I determined it was tobacco.  At that time she smoked, she carried the gun in a Crown Royal bag in her purse.  The tobacco and got from her cigarette case into the bag into the gun.  I removed the grips, soaked the gun overnight in a solvent, blew it out the following day and put a coat of WD-40 on it and back to the range.  The gun hasn't missed a beat since, but she had lost confidence in it and now carries a Model 36 Smith.

I still use WD-40 on occasion, but prefer a mixture of Automatic Transmission fluid and solvent as a rust preventive and gun oil.

[jeep08ham]

I took an old H&R 22 out today that has been in my gun cabinet about 3 years since being fired.  It had been lubed and stored with WD-40 before I put it away.  Just to see how it would work, with fresh ammo.  Also took another Taurus and my MK-II for comparison.  The MK-II and Taurus fired wonderfully.  The H&R would not fire and the cylinder was very stiff.  After a slight cleaning with Lucas Gun oil, the H&R fired every shot.   The case was very lightly marked. After cleaning the indentation was much deeper and sharper.

As for me and my guns, I will never use WD-40 on a gun again, unless it is sprayed on to stop rust for long term storage. Then cleaned before firing the gun.

My son is in law enforcement and they have been told to never use WD on the Glocks they have to carry!

[SHOOTALL]

i always heard jet fuel ( kerosene ) was the best thing to clean the saw with , which made me wonder why the surplus cleaner i have for small arms is nothing more than break free .
if you use WD-40 on your gun  a call to Brownell's might be worth while .
As far as long tern storage WD-40 evaporates over time why is it good for long term storage ?

[DCRthe3rd]

Body heat might effect your ammo , if you were on fire , other than that my guess is powder got contaminated ,  back when I was younger and thought if a little oil was good more must be better , I had a .22lr wheelgun that sat loaded indoors for roughly a year and all 6 rds ended up being duds.
For long term storage I use bore butter , doesn't evaporate , doesn't run down the stock or all over the place , stays put and it will clean off real easy with a little hoppes when the time comes and if I get hungry , I hear its edible