Sighting Enfield - help needed

[Musketeer]

I have a Gibbs Parker Hale 1858 Enfield replica and I cannot get consistence shots out of it.   I have tried different loads, black powder and Pryrodex, different minies,  patched and unpatched,  oversize etc.  Distances are 25,  50 and 57 meters.   The first shot is aways good regardless of the distance,  there after the shots become progressively more random - usually not even striking the target at all.   My best have been 7 shots to the lower left of the target at 25 meters, using a lightweight patched,  minie with 68 grain Pryrodex.   I am using iron sights, bench rest and old eyes,  which may be the root cause.

My impression is that as time goes on the rifle tends to shoots higher,  over the target - but this is speculation

Anyone got some good advice for me.  ie Peep sights, round ball,  have been suggest

I love to shoot the rifle,  but I am becoming frustrated with not been able to compete with my fellows

[surveyor47]

Welcome to the world of Civil War arms. First, the experts are the North South Skirmishers Association. www.n-ssa.org  This website is frequented by skirmishers, sutlers (merchants) and gunsmiths who deal with these weapons.  Were it not for these gentlemen and women, these guns would be a lost art.  There is no aspect of these supposedly primitive weapons that they cannot advise.

It is not surprising that your Enfield shoots high.  These guns were intended to shoot 500 yards and did so with great effect.  DO NOT modify your rear sight. Enfield rear sights are wonderful as is. Your problem is that the front sight is too low.  To shoot 50 & 100 yards, you need to install a new front sight, higher than the original.  The new front sight should be dovetailed and brazed to the barrel, not welded.  There are gunsmiths who deal with these guns on the N-SSA website.  Once you KNOW your load, begin sighting at 50 and 100 yards, shooting to point of aim.  Slowly, carefully over several sessions, file down the front sight, carefully checking the point of impact.  The Enfield rear sight has 2 short range positions, with the sight sliding front and rear.  To set the sight to 50 yards, set the sight to its rear and lowest position at rear.  To set the sight to 100 yards, slide the rear sight to  the hump at the front end.  The drop of these rifles is pretty incredible.  Shooting 200 yards and beyond requires use of the ladder type sight.  Again, DO NOT modify the rear sight in any way.  It is excellent as is.

Your gun probably has a 0.577 or 0.578 bore and is intended to shoot a Minnie. The problem is what diameter?  The bullet needs to be 0.001" less than bore diameter and that may take some experimentation.  First check bore diameter with calipers. A Lyman 575213 mold is a good starting place.  You will need to size the bullets and you wont find appropriate sizers on any reloading manufacturers website.  North East Trading Co. makes a great little sizer that fits into a RCBS Rockchucker.  Bore sizes for Civil War muskets run from 0.575" to 0.578" for the Enfield and 0.578" to 0.580" for Springfields. You may need to try different sizers to get the right one.  These guns can be incredibly accurate with the right bullet diameter. You may need to try a couple different molds before you find what works for you.  Use pure lead bullets only.     

The best way to learn the manual of arms for these guns is to attend a skirmish or a practice shoot by N-SSA members.  The advice they can provide is literally invaluable. If you go to the N-SSA website they can put you in touch with a team and you will very likely get an invite.

These guns are intended for black powder. Forget substitutes like Pyrodex, which has a real serious tendency to hangfire in large diameter bores such as 54 or 58.  DO NOT hot rod these guns with loads similar to a Hawken.  The usual military charge was 60 grains of FFG black powder.

[coyotejoe]

If you are not interested in being historically correct but just want to shoot I would suggest you try patched round balls. I am shooting a .58 Zouave, different rifle but similar concept, and have found excellent accuracy with a .570 ball and .018" pillow ticking patch. I bought that rifle expressly for elk hunting and know that a .570 round ball is more than enough for elk so I never even tried minies out of it. With 80 grains of 2f Goex I get just under 1600 fps, which gives a trajectory flat enough to use one sight setting, 2" high at fifty yards and dead center at 100. The standard service load with a minie does less than 900 fps with a trajectory more like a mortar than a rifle.
Years ago I had a very nice Parker/Hale '58 Enfield and it did shoot minies very well but round balls were a lot less trouble, less recoil and less expense as well as shooting much flatter. Minies are hard to cast perfectly and only perfect minies are worth shooting at all. I never did find a source of good commercially produced minies so had to cast my own and sort them, first visually and then by weight, more than half went back into the melting pot. Round balls are the easiest of all bullets to cast perfectly and so it is generally much easier to get accurate loads with the ball. That was 30 years ago and there may be good commercial minies available today, I don't know because I am more than happy to shoot balls.
As an after-thought, you may have a badly leaded bore from your previous experiments with minies. Nothing will shoot well unless you "get-the-lead-out" and have a perfectly clean bore, one more reason to shoot cloth patched balls, the lead never touches the bore and the cloth patch actually cleans the bore every time you load.

[Winter Hawk]

The first shot is always good, hey?  Are you swabbing between shots to get rid of the fouling?  It sounds like you have fouling building up which will play hob with your accuracy.

-WH-

[surveyor47]

I have had excellent luck with 577 Minnie's.  The trick to getting good Minnie's is to use a hand casting ladle.  Bottom pour spouts on furnaces don't pour fast enough for such a heavy bullet.  About 90% of mine are good enough for competition.  Rapine makes a graphite coating for molds, which makes them slick enough to drop the bullet easily and protects against rust very well. In N-SSA  competition, I usually shoot 75 to 100 rounds per gun, usually about 300 rounds per month. so I can assure you that the techniques I describe work very well. 

My Enfield carbine will typically shoot a ragged 1 hole group at 75 yards with 60 grains of FFG and a Lyman 575213PH Minnie.

80 grains sounds a bit hot for an Enfield. We shoot these guns regularly in competition and I don't know of anyone using a charge greater than 60 FFG. Again, you have to size the Minnie to the bore. Buffalo Bore makes a heavy skirted hollow point Minnie, which I have found to be superbly accurate. I simply sized it to my bore and it shoots a ragged 1 hole group at 100 yards. Typical sustained rates of fire are 3 rounds per minute- historically correct! Loading a patched round ball is very difficult in comparison to a Minnie and I cannot imagine a round ball giving anywhere near the accuracy of a Minnie.  The trick for hunting is to use a thick skirted Minnie, which will resist deformation better than a thin skirted Minnie.  Hornady makes just such a 58 cal round, which I have used very successfully in my Thompson Center 50 and 54.   Its called the Great Plains Hollow Point.

Good luck.

[Dillohide]

I don't shoot competition with my 1863 Remington but do get good groups at 100 yards with the thick skirted Lyman 577611 Minnie using 75 grains FFg and would have no problem hunting with it. However for hunting purposes I have more confidence in my Green Mountain barreled Renegades. With a .575 standard Lyman Minnie I get good groups at 100 yards using 60 to 70 grains FFg. I did use a small V file on my 100 yard rear sight so my old eyes could see the front blade better and to bring point of impact down. When shooting for groups I swab the barrel with alcohol between shots but only down to where the bullet sits. After every third shot I swab the entire barrel length, remove and clean the nipple and flash hole. I also plan on getting the Lee .578 Improved Minnie Mold to see how that works since my bore is .580, not .577.

[surveyor47]

Why don't you buy a mold big enough to deal with all your 58 caliber barrels and use a sizing die to reduce their diameter to whatever is necessary?  North East Trade Co. has a die that fits into a RCBS Rockchucker.  www.northeasttradeco.com  You will have to phone them to order, as it is not currently listed on their website. I have a dies in 575, 576, 577, 578 and 579. The guy is very very knowledgeable, lives & breaths muzzle loaders and can tell you exactly which mold to use.   

I agree that a T/C is a much more capable hunting rifle given the differences in acceptable powder charges.  Still, I have had real problems putting animals down with non expanding bullets, particularly the Maxiball, which I have absolutely no use for.  It has to expand or have a semi-wadcutter type edge to have any real stopping power. I'm thinking more in terms of a Lyman or RCBS Great Plains bullet.  The best Ive seen thusfar is the Hornady Great Plains Bullet, which has a thick Minnie type skirt and a hollow point.  Its accurate and should hit very hard. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=435189&t=11082005

[Dillohide]

I use the Great Plains bullet in my original 54 caliber Renegade and agree it is very accurate out of that 26 inch barrel, expands on impact and will take anything in North America. I use it where ranges may get over 100 yards. But, I prefer hunting with my 54 and 58 caliber Green Mountain barrels using patched round balls. They will also take anything, especially the 58, and are both very accurate without having to rattle your teeth with heavy charges.