1911 question for the experts.

[teddy12b]

I’ve been thinking about another 1911 45acp.  My first handgun was a stainless Colt 1911 that I ended up playing with and upgrading some of the parts.  I sold it because $$ got tight.  I ended up buying a Para Ordnance P-14 and all I did was change the grip to a hogue.

Lately I’ve held a Springfield and a Kimber and those have really started to give me the itch again. 

I just don’t know the differences between all the single stack 1911’s when it comes to quality and accuracy.  I know they all have good and bad points, but I care about accuracy before good looks. 

So if I ever buy a 1911 again it’ll be used 99.99% of the time at the range for target shooting and I do like to hit what I’m shooting at.  What is the most accurate 1911 for the money?  Is there a Savage arms of 1911’s?  Just to keep it simple lets keep the discussion for guns that are under $800 - $900 give or take.

[SharonAnne]

(quietly sitting back, waiting to see what the "EXPERTS" say) (also waiting to see who considers themselves to be an expert)

[torpedoman]

NOT an expert and will probably start a war with this post. but i have a real nice GI 1911 clone that has fed and fired everything i put in its mag including semi wadcutter hand loads without a hiccup it has a very nice trigger a bit heavy for a pure target gun but very decent for everyday use, it breaks like glass and it came that way right out of the box. I've had a few more expensive everything up to a Clark long slide heavy slide when i was shooting competition in the service. The big surprise is this one is a rock island bought it for a project gun and the only thing i changed was the sights  (nigh sights) and fancy grips.

[Mikey]

teddy - scroll on down the forum page to the thread entitled 'Best 45 for under $500'.  That thread has 4 pages to it and you should be able to find your answer there.  I know your budget is a bit higher but I believe that issue has also been addressed in that thread.  Go take a look it should help point ya in the right direction, I hope.........  I can tell you that every brand name has both it's good and bad points.  Lloyd has sent a number of 1911s back to the factory because they have failed to perform as he expected and some of these are/were made by top of the line manufacturers.

SharonAnne:  If you have something to add, spit it out and add it right up front.  Don't sit back and wait for everyone else to speak their piece and then chime in with your 2 cents worth, toss your pennies on the deck at the start.  Your advice, on a more timely basis, just might make the difference for someone who only has a short bit of time to decide on a handgun before it goes out the dealer's door in someone else's pocket and a great bargain or deal is lost.  As for the 'EXPERT' business - a lot of us would consider that more than just a bit insulting.  We never hype ourselves as experts - we may refer to others as experts in the field due to the experience and insights they have shared with all of us.  Most of us are just glad to be able to share those experiences and our knowledge with younger or newer shooters.  Some have so much experience it is incredible to think of not asking for their advice or to consider them more 'expert' in the field. 

If you are experienced and knowledgeable about 1911s, share that experience and knowledge, don't covet it until the last minute when it may not provide any benefit. 

Thank you.  And by the way - welcome to the forum.  Mikey.

[teddy12b]

I've read through the post called 'Best 45 for under $500'.  I usually go back a ways into the old posts before I start a new one.  There was a lot of good information on their but the focus was on the least expensive models.  I don't want to buy the cheapest or most expensive and that's why I was asking.

There are many people on this forum that own more than one or two 1911's or have owned more than a few in the past.  The people that have more experience than I do are who would be experts in my eyes.  I honestly don't know how that could offend someone instead of flatter people who know a lot about the 1911's.  It wasn't meant to insult anyone, but people read things differently so oh well.

[jwp475]

  What ever you get put a Match Grade Barrel in it..

[teddy12b]

I know there are a lot of parts that are interchangeable between 1911's, but is there a match grade barrel made for each type?

I'm starting to get interested in the Smith & Wesson 1911 in particular.  I've read a lot of good things about them and R&Rarms has a stainless model with a rail for just under $800.

[SHOOTALL]

expert NO ,  but I have owned a few 1911's in colt 1 officers model , 1- blue govt. model ser. 80 got it when they came out , 1-ser 90 defender Officers size , 1-ser 70 9mm ( wish i had that one back. ) and a custom shop Govt. model with all the bells and whistles for a carry gun . Kimber"s I had 2 , GI -1 . They all shot OK the Kimber"s shot the best and showed the best fitting . I also had a LDA full size hi-cap which shot OK but was not single stack.
Most of the guns friends have owned shot good right up until we decided to make adjustments and alterations .
I believe you get what you pay for , a less expensive gun may be all you need then again you won't get top of the line cheap .
hope i met SHAROANNE"S expectation of entertainment !

[jwp475]

   Anyone wanting the best made it is the Less Bear without a dought, they are very accurate and the function is perfection. No other make IMHO is comparable to the Bear

[Mikey]

teddy12b:  match grade barrels are available for almost every single 1911 pistol you can imagine.  Some are 'drop-ins' and I have had excellent results with two in 45, a Bar-Sto and one from Ed Brown.  I have had great results with a 9mm and 38 Super, both also from Bar-Sto but, and this is a large but, the S&W 1911s are supposed to be pretty darn accurate.  

Something else too..most factory barrels shoot pretty well.  Sometimes they may need to be properly fitted to the slide and then you would be surprised as to how accurately they can shoot, so don't give up on factory accuracy until you're certain it isn't just the way it went together.  

I have been looking at one of their 1911 scandium frame models with the 4" bbl (Commander length) as a upgrade to my old Colt Commander.  The new S&W is supposed to be pretty accurate and has all the upgrades I would want in a carry pistol like that.  

My personal carry pistols have to be capable of 2-2.5" at 25 yds with mil-spec ball, and the S&Ws boast that and perform better.  

I've been shooting an enhanced Springfield GI model and it just keeps shooting right along and puts them where I aim and I am happy with it but I couldn't tell you how much a newer Springfield with a decent set of sights and trigger would cost.  I would hope they are still within your budget.  

SHOOTALL:  "Most of the guns friends have owned shot good right up until we decided to make adjustments and alterations".  I'm still rollin' from that one, lolololol.  How true.  I admit to the same.  

[SharonAnne]

Teddy, i acknowledge your idea of expert.

Mikey, i bought a colt 1911a1 .45acp that had 125,000 rds through it. I put another 125,000 through it. I switched over to a Para Ordnance 9x23 winchester. I have 75,000 rds through it.

I have had a one day private lesson with Jerry Barnhart; a semi-private 2 day lesson with Rob Leatham. I was acquainted with George Smith of EGW and he fitted a barrel and his first 3 chamber compensator for me back when He was shop foreman at Behlert Custom. Jake Kempton built my 9x23 when He was at Accuracy Speaks, owned by Derrick Martin. Jake now works building rifles at JP  Rifles. I have met Don Golembeski of Kodiak Precision.Several of his pistols have been on the cover of American Handgunner.

These are the very few EXPERTS I know or have met.

 I am not an expert. Mildly experienced yes, but no expert.

[SharonAnne]

BTW, I had friends, a married couple, who had 7 full race, open class, ipsc pistols by les baer. his work IS impeccable

[SharonAnne]

Shootall. I did not mean to leave you out. Your input was well thought out, not entertaining. though one  other made me smile.

[williamlayton]

Lordy, here we go agin, fixin somebody up with our cousin.
If we all fell in love wit the same woman--well, er---man, excuse me ma'am--it would be a hell of a fight.
In 1911's, for self-defense, I am partial too STI.
I like Colts--I like Colt's what have been supervised by a good smith.
I love Brown's, Clark's, Knight hawk's, and a good number of other custom production guns.
I prefer reliability too most anything else--accuracy is included in this thought.
I do like pretty guns---if they are reliable----let the BG have the pretty, shiny ones that are not reliable.
Hufff-Pufff.
Blessings

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  now that's a lot of shootin' and the it sounds like the experience to go along with it is a bit more than just 'mild'. 

Could you tell us if that used 1911A1 you purchased still had the factory barrel?  I ask because some gunsmiths prefer to 'fit' the factory barrel properly to the slide before going to an aftermarket barrel and the results have been pretty close to excellent.   

Sounds like you have met a few of the real experts and we appreciate your input.  Mikey.

[SHOOTALL]

sorry i didn't make ya smile .
guess my humble guns don't have the top drawer allure of the custom / race gun crowd !
but my needs are street guns that may be lost . I have shot some of the upper level custom guns and admit they are worth the investment .

[Mike Pearson]

Curt, it seems that the best post for getting a 1911 in .45 ACP is your own opening post. The .45 ACP has a reputation (as a cartridge) for being accurate--the .38 Super doesn't. My guess is that you can buy .45 ACP ammo substantially cheaper than .38 Super. You hinted that competition is where you'd be using your 1911. If that's the case, the .45 ACP would seem to be the natural choice. More accurate and cheaper ammo for practice is combination hard to beat. Too bad they don't chamber the 1911 in .357 SIG! That's an accurate cartridge but even then, the .45 would hold it's own and still be cheaper to shoot! Good luck! --- Mike

[daddyof4]

 not an expert but a fanatic of the 1911. Wanted to name my latest son Moses, wife had none of it. You can get gems out of almost any brand . You also get lemons out of the goodies. Worst shooting 1911 I ever had was a Kimber Compact. Best was a Norinco that cost 225 new. I think the main thing is get a decent one and then spend ALOT of time learning your pistol at the range. My P-14 LTD is great too...

[SHOOTALL]

the 38 super had bbl problems , cured now !
if you have an old one try a new bbl .
if you reload the 38 super may save some $

































444444

[Mikey]

Mike Pearson:  I think STI makes a 1911 in 40 S&W, which would allow a barrel change to 357 Sig.  Question is why, though?  The 38 Super when properly loaded or the 9x23 Winchester perform at the same level as the 357 Sig, maybe better.  I know that for plinking, both the 38 Super and Winchester 9x23 are a ball with 160 gn cast - don't know if the Sig round can play like that with heavy plinkin' loads.

SHOOTALL is correct about the 38 Supers - in the earlier days the Colt 38 Super barrels chambered on the case rim, and were not known for their accuracy.  I think the first, or one of the first barrel makers to chamber the 38 Super on the case mouth was Bar-Sto and they found the 38 Super, so chambered, could be as accurate as the 45.  I purchased a Bar-Sto barrel in 38 Super long ago and it is very accurate and keeps on shootin'. 

[SharonAnne]

Mikey. my first .45acp  was a loaner from an old timer at the gun club who would not have me going to an international 3 gun match with a 9mmP.  It was an As New, pre series 70 colt. i added a drop in beavertail, swen sights,aluminum trigger,comander hammer,extended thumb safety and later on a 6" clark match barrel that i had magna-ported. to give you an idea of how long ago, i was ahead of the curve in "race gun" tech.

I added the 6" barrel because i bulged the stock barrel by firing a round after putting a bullet in the barrel from a squib load. funny thing, even with the bulge, it always chrono'd faster than the 6" and accuracy never changed.
 more to come.

[SharonAnne]

Shootall, the one reply I smiled at was because I thought it foolish. However I DO smile about other things

[teddy12b]

Is there a brand that would be better to buy because of the availability of quality magazines? 

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  hahahahaha - that dates ya ma'am (and I'll leave it with that if I know what's good for me................). 

Refresh my memory - it's jaded by military service.  The 3 gun international match included 22, 45 and 38, just like the military, right???  Was the Clarke barrel in 45 or 38 Spl???  Didn't Clarke also produce the 38/45 for wadcutter matches, back then (but not sayin' when....)?

I can understand someone (who cares) not wanting you to go to (compete in) an international shoot with a 9mm but I guess now it is a matter of preference with the accuracy folks are able to wring out of the 9. 

Interesting about the bulged barrel shooting faster than the longer barrel and also interesting is your finding that the factory barrel shot accurately - this should help teddy12b with deciding what modifications to make or not make to his pistol.

teddy12b:  The issue of better quality magazines might be best left to the aftermarket manufacturers - especially those who specialize in magazines.  With the original gun maker, the mag is just one part and I doubt there is any more quality control put into magazine construction than with the rest of the gun, whichin most instances just needs to meet specs. 

Aftermarket parts, including magazine makers concentrate their efforts and quality control on just those few parts which usually means they come out better than factory.  I purchase the 8 round Chip McCormick mags for mine and they haven't failed me yet.  HTH.  Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

Mikey, different kind of 3 gun. rifle, pistol, shotgun. The 6" Clark was a .45acp.

Clark was making a .38spl wadcutter on a 1911 frame but I don't remember when He first started making it.   

I will take you off the hook, it was in the early 80s when I first went to a r/p/s 3-gun.

Teddy,I like Metalform for .45/1911 mags. Brownells carries them.

[SHOOTALL]

bet you do !
. don't take it wrong .

its nice to have some fun and every body not get into a knock down drag out !

[SharonAnne]

a couple of years ago I was asked my age. I said I was old enough to shoot 'senior' in USPSA, but not in ICORE. Well, now I am old enough for ICORE +1.  Give some of you some research to do.  (o);

I hope that by the fall I might be able to start shooting again. Time will tell.

Meanwhile I have other projects. I need to install a new hammer/sear/disconnector/strut/sear spring in my Colt 1911A1 frame. Do a "trigger job". I won't say what  # I want. Fit an STI slide to the frame. Fit and install a .45acp/STI barrel with a Briley spherical bushing. Install a Pachmyer thumb shield/plunger tube. And, I am thinking about a new ambidextrous thumb safety: Ed Brown or Kings. I am leaning toward Kings. Oh yes, sights. They will be adjustable fiber optics from Dawson Precision.

Then it will be the Essential Arms wide body (a Para Ordnance clone) open class USPSA in 9x23.

Then there are the 2 AR-15 bare upper/lower receivers.

And then the.........................

[SHOOTALL]

don't care what age ya are post a picture !



of the gun when you get it finished of course or as it gets phases completed !

[davej48]

I don't claim to be an expert but I started shooting a 1911 when I joined the army back in 1966. Over the years I have probably owned about 2 dozen different ones. I have had good and bad luck with some expensive custom pistols and good luck with some very inexpensive models. If buying used, I would avoid anything made by Auto Ordnance or AMT. Just about anything else can be made to shoot well. If buying new I would look at RIA or Springfield Armory. Presently I have two of the Charles Daly's made by RIA and they are maybe the best I have ever had out of the box.

[Broom Rider]

Good luck in whichever 1911 you decide on.