Cutting to the quick...

[magooch]

Come on guys; life is too short to get so serious and ruffled up.  None of us are going to change the world, or even our little corner of it.  We all have our opinions and prejudices and that's fine, but I would hope that we can try to have discussions without getting too personal.

I know I get a little miffed once in a while about some stuff that gets posted here, but I've come to realize that my opinions are not the last word and the most I can hope is that I don't make too big a fool of myself when I share them.  Even the most contrary posts have value and make this forum interesting.  I marvel at the knowledge and wisdom of everyone who participates, but my hope is that we can keep it going, but try to lighten up on the personal animosity.

There--and my first name ain't Rodney.

[SHOOTALL]

I hope my feeling of self worth is never that low !
you offer more than you realize ! we all do whether we agree or not !

[Heather]

You've gained such a stereotype that anytime one sees TM7 one expects a verbose America bashing so the only reason to read it is to see which persona you have assumed that day.

Hey man speak for yourself.  Anytime I see a topic started by TM7 I get intrigued and add reading it to my list of things to do for the day.  I enjoy reading post from an open minded individual who typically looks at something from every angle before making a decision or choosing a side, even if his opinions are different from the norm.  It seems that TM7's questioning and pointing out faults of America makes him seem "UnAmerican" in your eyes.  It is those qualities exactly that makes him the "Most American" in my eyes.  It is our duty as citizens to keep our goverment in check.

Heather

[ncsurveyor]

You've gained such a stereotype that anytime one sees TM7 one expects a verbose America bashing so the only reason to read it is to see which persona you have assumed that day.

Hey man speak for yourself.  Anytime I see a topic started by TM7 I get intrigued and add reading it to my list of things to do for the day.  I enjoy reading post from an open minded individual who typically looks at something from every angle before making a decision or choosing a side, even if his opinions are different from the norm.  It seems that TM7's questioning and pointing out faults of America makes him seem "UnAmerican" in your eyes.  It is those qualities exactly that makes him the "Most American" in my eyes.  It is our duty as citizens to keep our goverment in check.

Heather

Is it the most American thing to do is to keep the government in check?

If that's you're definition of patriotism, have a nice day.

A government shouldn't have to be kept in check.

The type of thinking, that it is our duty to keep the government in check, is LUDICROUS!  For you to think that way means you have already bought into the rhetoric of those seeking to affect a malevolent agenda without responsibility.  They have convinced you that you must take odds with the government, rather than convince you to become your government, as it was intended. 

It is our duty to participate in our own governing, and change it through proactivity. 

What you see as most important is prejudicial and biased in its own way.  The itemizing and categorizing of every action of every "non-conforming" individual and organization, and calling everything else in the world not beneficial to a select view as "stigma" and "distraction".

Point fingers at "neo cons", democrats, etc.  Divide parties.  Segregate and polarize.  I'm afraid the conspiracy theory here is to keep throwing out BS and keep as many American's at odd with each other that they will no longer be able to cooperate.

Enjoying being a part of that?



Go vote.  Or even better, run for a local office.

Exactly when does the fault pointing stop and the checking start, anyway?

[Heather]

You've gained such a stereotype that anytime one sees TM7 one expects a verbose America bashing so the only reason to read it is to see which persona you have assumed that day.

Hey man speak for yourself.  Anytime I see a topic started by TM7 I get intrigued and add reading it to my list of things to do for the day.  I enjoy reading post from an open minded individual who typically looks at something from every angle before making a decision or choosing a side, even if his opinions are different from the norm.  It seems that TM7's questioning and pointing out faults of America makes him seem "Un-American" in your eyes.  It is those qualities exactly that makes him the "Most American" in my eyes.  It is our duty as citizens to keep our government in check.

Heather

Is it the most American thing to do is to keep the government in check?

Our constitution begins with the words “We the people,” therefore, I have always lived by the opinion that our system of Government was set up for the best interest of the people, by the people, and for the people.  When government officials are twisting and perverting the constitution to meet special needs agendas, then I feel it is our DUTY as American citizens to get these corrupt officials out of office.  I’m not saying lets have a riot and slay everyone in Government that is corrupt; I’m simply suggesting not voting them back in office. 
 

If that's you're definition of patriotism, have a nice day.

Actually the definition of patriotism is a proud supporter or defender of his or her country and its way of life.  I am a proud supporter of my country and I intent to defend it and its way of life as it was created by our founding fathers.  Just because I disagree with the fact that our government officials have strayed away from our Constitution, doesn’t mean I don’t love my country.  It just means that I believe our country is headed in the wrong direction and needs to get back on the path laid out by our constitution.

A government shouldn't have to be kept in check.

In a perfect world that would be true.  But the world isn’t perfect, and neither is our government.

The type of thinking, that it is our duty to keep the government in check, is LUDICROUS!  For you to think that way means you have already bought into the rhetoric of those seeking to affect a malevolent agenda without responsibility.  They have convinced you that you must take odds with the government, rather than convince you to become your government, as it was intended.  It is our duty to participate in our own governing, and change it through proactivity. 

The idea that our government should be allowed to run around and do whatever the hell they want to when It comes to infringing on the rights of myself and my children is LUDICROUS! I haven’t bought into anyone’s rhetoric.  I stay informed about what is going on around me and make educated well thought out decisions and views for myself.  No one has convinced me of anything and I don’t believe that “you must take odds with the government.” You take one phrase way out of context and assume you have my whole ideology about patriotism figured out.  Well don’t be so quick to judge.  Do you feel the need to chastise me because of my personal thoughts about another member that you don’t agree with?  Or are you really that angry that I feel it is our job as citizens to question and change a flawed government.  In my personal opinion I don’t think TM7 is the anti American monster you make him out to be.  I blame no one in particular for our countries present state.  I blame America and its citizens as a whole, myself included.  We could all be doing more for our country.

That you see as most important is prejudicial and biased in its own way.  The itemizing and categorizing of every action of every "non-conforming" individual and organization, and calling everything else in the world not beneficial to a select view as "stigma" and "distraction".

Point fingers at "neo cons", democrats, etc.  Divide parties.  Segregate and polarize.  I'm afraid the conspiracy theory here is to keep throwing out BS and keep as many American's at odd with each other that they will no longer be able to cooperate.

Enjoying being a part of that?

I’m not a part of any of the rhetoric you spouted off.  I never said that “keeping the government in check” was the most important part of patriotism.  Let me put this in simple terms so you won’t try to do so much reading in between the lines and distorting of my views.  It is MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION that it is more patriotic to question your government and move to make changes when necessary that it is to sit idly by and follow blindly a government who is moving further and further away from the way it was intended to be EVERYDAY.  I didn’t itemize or categorize any  “nonconforming” persons or call anyone a “stigma” or “distraction.”  I never pointed a finger at anyone.  I am part of no conspiracy to harm Americans in anyway.  I am simply one citizen who thinks that TM7 not only has the right to question and point out the faults of those in charge of making decisions for our collective futures, but we as American patriots and citizens have the duty to do the same.

Go vote.  Or even better, run for a local office.

Exactly when does the fault pointing stop and the checking start, anyway?

Let me rearrange your last two statements so you can answer your own question.

Exactly when does the fault pointing stop and the checking start, anyway?  When we as citizens decide we have had enough and good honest informed people with the best interest for the people go vote, or even better, run for local office.

[oldandslow]

Come on, people. We are all adults here aren't we? Let's act like it and use a little common courtesy with each other.

Thanks for posting the article on oil futures trading, TM7. I've seen quite a bit about it but not in this depth before. Certainly shows who has their hand in your pocket.

[billy_56081]

"Have a smoke and relax." Quote TM7

  I'd imagine you do this quite regularly. Kinda like that old burnt out hippie I ran into that was ranting about, 9/11 conspiracy, alien abductions and chupacabra, all while wearing a tinfoil hat. I think I'm seeing a pattern.

[ncsurveyor]

You take one phrase way out of context and assume you have my whole ideology about patriotism figured out.

  did you not say it was our duty to keep our government in check?  What context was this taken out of?

But after reading all your reply, Heather, it looks like we have different definitions for the phrase "in check" and that in and of itself causes a little of our disagreement.  However, what did you mean here:

It is MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION that it is more patriotic to question your government and move to make changes when necessary that it is to sit idly by and follow blindly a government who is moving further and further away from the way it was intended to be EVERYDAY

 

Remember its "our" government.  In reality, I believe you are attaching your anger with me to the government there.  I am not advocating letting it run willy nilly.  I advocate people cooperating to become their government.

I didn’t itemize or categorize any  “nonconforming” persons or call anyone a “stigma” or “distraction.”  I never pointed a finger at anyone.  I am part of no conspiracy to harm Americans in anyway.

Re-read my statements. I never accused you of being part of the active process of polarizing etc.  Just that you are buying into it.  And I described the process you are buying into.

For the record, I am not angry with TM, nor you.  I never stated that I wanted to quelch either of your 1st Amendment rights, (although both of you waving that flag certainly makes me look like some sort of Nazi - thanks a lot). 

I am elated that you feel the need to change the government.  I take issue with anyone that bemoans this need, yet does not become "tactilly" involved with the process.  I take issue with people that try to foster the changing of government, so they can be a spectator in the chaos.

What I said is that there are people that desire for personal or political reasons to create dissension.  They do their best, through deception, to convince people to be at odds with their neighbor.  And as they spew their conjecture, they decry anyone who disagrees with them as stigma and distraction - ironic, don't you think?

As a wise young person once said, "The world isn't perfect, and neither is our government". To which I wholly agree.  But I add that "The world isn't totally evil, and neither is our government"  How long do you think you can last focusing on only the evil?  Where do you end up when you are bombarded with constant theories that berate your leaders and their motives, and dilute any and all attempts these imperfect people try in their attempts to lead.  Sure if they suck at leading, get them out.  But apparently, the faults of some can be overlooked, and the faults of others can be created, depending on the purpose.

Which is why I say - get involved.


TM7:

Well, actually I think I'm quite proactive, especially in the use of one of the B o Rs. Perhaps you've heard of it....Freedom of Speech?  Ring a bell.... ?

Although excersizing your right to free speech may be the limit of your proactivity, if I recall, pornagraphers still rely on the use of that freedom.

You are in the business of creating negativity and polarization.  (I do appreciate the "ring a bell" comment though.  I snickered at your sarcasm).  Whether you believe half, none or all of the conjecture you wring out of the wash rags is inconsequential to me.  The fact that you present it as a gospel in testimony of the failure of America is what I have odds with.  Especially since we both know that the objectivity of your posted information is based on the opinions of men.  Some learned, some quackary, but opinions, nevertheless.

And when your moral or spiritual motivation is questioned, you reply with "Truth is that which brings you closer to God"  Whose truth?  God's truth may not be concerned with the trivialities that you extol.  His truth may be as simple has being a light for a soul in need.

But my philosophical approach is oft overlooked by those that are caught up in the turmoil, and conspiracy, and Hollywood driven rush of your world.


On a non-philosophical standpoint:

How did the NY LEO goons manage to place Elliott Spitzer on top of that prostitute?  Multiple times?

Or are you simply cherry picking, once again, what you personally deem as relevant, in order to get your agenda across?

Are you condoning his actions because he served your goals?

What else are you willing to condone?


I include you both (and everyone for that matter) in my daily prayer for all of humanity to achieve clarity.

God's clarity, not mine.  I'm biased.


(really biased)

[beemanbeme]

Uh Oh, do we have another conspiracy?  Was Madame Palfrey's death a "hit".  If so, that should keep the tabloids going for years. 
Why don't they ever take out somebody I don't like?
 
If you folks want to read Sinclair Lewis' book "It can't happen here", --it's not in the children's section-- you will find a blueprint of what is happening right now in America.  And it starts with apathetic citizens that gradually yields all powers to the gov'ment that "promises" to take care of them. 

Heather, I won't parse your definition of un American. As I posted elsewhere, you have your opinions and they are as valid as anyones but I think that NC Surveyor said it best, (to paraphrase) "there is evil in our government, but it isn't all evil". Every move our government makes, or George for that matter, isn't evil nor does it have an ulterior motive. And to make that a constant mantra blunts the impact of your message. (ie the little boy who cried wolf) The single most evil facet of OUR government is a sub 30% electorate turn out. If we have bad government, we deserve it.

[Dixie Dude]

Anwar has a 47 year supply of natural gas, but the oil has to be drilled first.  They were going to install a gas pipeline via the Alaska Highway through Canada, tie into Canada's system and send the gas to the lower 48.  Instead, we may be importing natural gas from the Arabs in a few years, because of the demand for power generation (cleaner than coal).  Natural gas power plants can be approved by EPA and started within 18 months.  Coal takes a few years, nuclear about 10 years.  However, because of power generation with natural gas, it has driven the price up.  Also, I work with a natural gas company.  There is plenty of oil and gas off the coast of Florida, which won't allow drilling.  We have oil, natural gas, offshore and in Alaska.  But we do need to drill it, and build more refinerys.  That would help drive down prices.  Nuclear, wind, and solar, is what we need to go to with power generation, not fossil fuels.  It is just as cheap, but wind and solar are limited to plain states, coastal areas, and the southwest.  Nuclear takes 10-20 years. 

[Dee]

You've gained such a stereotype that anytime one sees TM7 one expects a verbose America bashing so the only reason to read it is to see which persona you have assumed that day.

Hey man speak for yourself.  Anytime I see a topic started by TM7 I get intrigued and add reading it to my list of things to do for the day.  I enjoy reading post from an open minded individual who typically looks at something from every angle before making a decision or choosing a side, even if his opinions are different from the norm.  It seems that TM7's questioning and pointing out faults of America makes him seem "UnAmerican" in your eyes.  It is those qualities exactly that makes him the "Most American" in my eyes.  It is our duty as citizens to keep our goverment in check.

Heather

Is it the most American thing to do is to keep the government in check?

If that's you're definition of patriotism, have a nice day.

A government shouldn't have to be kept in check.

The type of thinking, that it is our duty to keep the government in check, is LUDICROUS!  For you to think that way means you have already bought into the rhetoric of those seeking to affect a malevolent agenda without responsibility.  They have convinced you that you must take odds with the government, rather than convince you to become your government, as it was intended. 

It is our duty to participate in our own governing, and change it through proactivity. 

What you see as most important is prejudicial and biased in its own way.  The itemizing and categorizing of every action of every "non-conforming" individual and organization, and calling everything else in the world not beneficial to a select view as "stigma" and "distraction".

Point fingers at "neo cons", democrats, etc.  Divide parties.  Segregate and polarize.  I'm afraid the conspiracy theory here is to keep throwing out BS and keep as many American's at odd with each other that they will no longer be able to cooperate.

Enjoying being a part of that?



Go vote.  Or even better, run for a local office.

Exactly when does the fault pointing stop and the checking start, anyway?

I don't believe Heather needs a history lesson here, but I would say that possibly YOU DO ncsurveyor. The government DOES need to be kept in check, and yes we should vote to change our government when it becomes corrupt as it has now. BUT! The SECOND AMMENDMENT was "WRITTEN" precisely for bringing a government BACK "IN CHECK" when it gets out of hand, and defending ourselves against it.
Yes voting is an option, and running for office is also an option, HOWEVER, to run for a government office in D.C. does not cost hundreds of dollars these days, it cost MILLIONS, and there is a reason for that. LOBBISTS have bought and paid for many Senators and Congressmen, and YES, like it or not Whitehouse officials.
Even God in His Word teaches us to WEIGH EVERY WORD, our leaders say to make sure it is correct.

[SHOOTALL]

So Dee can i assume that money makes the GOVT. work ? If so then would it not work to boycott the companies that buy the GOVT. ?
If votes don't work would boycott ?

[ncsurveyor]

I don't believe Heather needs a history lesson here, but I would say that possibly YOU DO ncsurveyor. The government DOES need to be kept in check, and yes we should vote to change our government when it becomes corrupt as it has now. BUT! The SECOND AMMENDMENT was "WRITTEN" precisely for bringing a government BACK "IN CHECK" when it gets out of hand, and defending ourselves against it.
Yes voting is an option, and running for office is also an option, HOWEVER, to run for a government office in D.C. does not cost hundreds of dollars these days, it cost MILLIONS, and there is a reason for that. LOBBISTS have bought and paid for many Senators and Congressmen, and YES, like it or not Whitehouse officials.
Even God in His Word teaches us to WEIGH EVERY WORD, our leaders say to make sure it is correct.

My history is just fine, thanks, DEE.  One time, when some American's (a couple of states around here-abouts, actually) felt their government was becoming oppressive it wasn't pretty.

You and I disagree with what "in check" means also.  Perhaps we disagree about a government of the people.

You make it sound as if the process was destined to be
a) start the government,
b) let it run around like a spoiled kid, and then spank it (2nd amendment-esque) when it gets out of hand.

In which case you are not checking it, your replacing it. I agree that replacing it may be a duty that comes to pass.

Does it need changing?  It sure needs something.  But going into it thinking its your duty to "keep it in check" rather than "be" it, you'll get no where in the future.  You know the future?  The one of our children that serves as a rally call for countless people and causes. 

Had we excerisized our duty (as opposed to

The single most evil facet of OUR government is a sub 30% electorate turn out.

then maybe a lot of people wouldn't grow up thinking the government was an adversary. 

I solicit that the intent is for us to remain involved with our government, and maybe, just maybe we won't have to result to the other "duty" some folks seem to eager to want to grasp.  Is it to late?  Some sure think so.  Although some only think they have to keep pointing out the faults and that will be enough.

I prefer to promote involvement rather than the other actions.  In part because my bias about who and what I will take up arms for again, is only outweighed by the fact I DO NOT want my children to have to make that same choice.

So, you can stew, simmer, or whatever you want.

But I don't think its too late.

If I bought all the negativity being sold around here, I may be so inclined, but luckily, I'm weighing every word .

[SHOOTALL]

first we need to go back to whats good for America not whats good for the indivisual groups and minorities !
quit being the land of the offended !

[billy_56081]

"C'mon Billy c'mon.  You're making this up..   For what self respecting hippie, yippie, whoopie, or counter culture type would have much of anything to say to you?  Not meaning any disrespect..but really man?  Its like oil in water........................

...TM7"


  Well I'm sure this gut had no idea where he was or who he was talking to. Took all my self control to not spit my dip on him and kick the old smelly feller in the head. But from the have a smoke and relax comment you made I understand you better. I'm sure it has made you smarter.

[beemanbeme]

Maybe the old burnt out hippie just saw the way things were going and couldn't face up to it.  I'm 70 and remembering things say 50 years ago and what they are now does kinda make you sick to your stomach. Harry Truman had a sign on his desk that read: "The buck stops here"  Now there seems to be one on everybody's desk that reads: "It ain't my fault".
I'm sure it'd have made you feel real good to beat the old fart up.  Sometimes us old farts pack just for that reason. 

[ncsurveyor]

Ncsurveyor,,,,so you think I do make commentary for the fun of it, and so you draw an association with 'pornographers'. 

Take it easy.  All I was implying is that people are allowed to excersize their rights, regardless of their effect, sometimes.

Statue on  the capital building, huh?  This should be interesting.  I'll look into it.

You know, there was a painting of this guy nailed to some boards, once.  He got a lot of theories going, too.  Only one truth though.

[ironglow]

   
   The "oil situation" is a real problem, but I personally don't believe that "Big Oil" or our elected reps are totally to  blame. Yes; the congress should have done something
    long ago, before we reached this "pinch point"...and "Big Oil" has not been loathe to accept their profits..
   In his interview with O'Reilly last night, J McCain admitted that Congress should have done something long ago ( but remember,one man doesn't make a Congress).
  He laid the bulk of the blame on the OPEC cartel. Let's use our heads a bit..oil that was coming from the ground a couple years ago at $35 per barrel, didn't increase
   it's OWN price nearly 400% in the ensuing two years !
 
    Let's look a bit closer...A barrel of oil is 31 gallons..yesterday, oil hit $124 per barrel..do the math !  124 divided by 31 = $4.00 . How much are you paying for gasoline !
  After purchase, the oil must be transported, refined, distributed and sold retail ! How much does that make the price per barrel ? Yes; not all will be made into gasoline or
   diesel..some will go toward JP-5 and the rest into more refined, more costly products.
   I believe, as some have said..that the large profits made by the oil companies are from a small margin of a huge, huge market ( Did you ever notice how large those tanker
   ships are?). Cut that margin by a fraction of a percent, and the picture could be very different.

     ...And remember, when certain politicians complain about the "big profits" of the oil companies, they are referring to the big profits BEFORE TAXES.
   If you believe that oil is a "gravy train", invest in it...you're free to do so ! Remember, returns are also governed by the "risk" factor...

   One thing certain; contrary to most in Congress, the oil companies are providing us with a USEFUL product and service !...LOL

[SHOOTALL]

ironglow when did a bbl of crude go from 42 gal. to 31 gal. ?
that changes the math somewhat . 124 divided by 42 - $ 2.96 . cost of a gal of gas around here is $ 3.60 .
$ 3.60 less $ 2.96 gives $.64 to ship , process and get profit , less tax of course .
now if a truck hauls 40000 lbs and a gal. is 6 lbs. then each truck hauls over 39000 gal at say a nickle profit or $ 1950 .00
now we know profit is most likely more than a nickle . And we also know that people buy and hold oil to make a profit and run price up .
Who am i suppose to feel sorry for ? sorry i forgot .

[Dixie Dude]

I thought a barrel was 55 gal.  The 31 or 42 I think is the amount of gasoline or diesel you can get from it.  The rest goes into lighter or heavier oils, plastics, and asphalt tar.  I do know you can get more diesel from a 55 gallon barrel than gasoline.  However now they have to clean it up, get the sulfur out, and that has driven up the cost of diesel.

[SHOOTALL]

nope a barrel of crude is 42 gallons .

[SHOOTALL]

which is arbitrary anyway they ship it in tankers not bbl's
guess the price of a tanker full would really look high !

[ironglow]

Shootall;
      I stand corrected; thank you ! I made the mistake of accepting the first place I consulted as an authority, assuming they were correct.
    I found a much better site, one that has much information which can dispel some of the myths surrounding the oil industry. Actually, i
    don't see the price of fuel out of line, even at the 42 gallon figure, after factoring in shipping, refining and distribution..
   Around here, reg gas is going for $3.89..$.62 of which is fed, state and local taxes at the pump. Subtract $.62 from $3.89..leaves, $3.27.
       Then $3.27 X 42 = $137.34 for 42 gals... Not saying i like it,  but I blame OPEC more than anyone else !

   According to the website, 42 gallons of crude refines to 19.5 gals gas, 9 gals fuel oil, 4 gals jet fuel and 11 gals of "other'..

   The website is worth a look, see where our oil comes from ..

[beemanbeme]

Didn't we have a hand in teaching OPEC how to do this??  Seems like when BIG OIL (aka BO)wanted to drill on the north slope and the greenies et al wanted to hold that oil in reserve or maintain the wilderness, BO shut the pipe off and the world quickly saw how dependent America was on their cars and their images. The American male just had to have his macho car and mama had to make those several trips to the store each day so we caved.

[SHOOTALL]

you found the same site i did !
May be what has happened is we have sold out our industry and jobs to other parts of the world and have less to offer in real trade ? We shipped finished goods at one time now we ship scrap ? May be a box of new bolts gets you more gas than a empty 6 pack of beer cans ?

[ironglow]

Beeman;
      We operating the north slope field, taught OPEC how to artificially raise prices ?  Not quite right; the Aleyeska pipeline didn't start until the early seventies.
    OPEC was formed as a cartel in 1960.               

                www.econlib.org/library/Enc/OPEC.html

    Obviously, the Arab states rely heavily upon their oil..because as far as I can see, they don't do much along the lines of designing, manufacturing, medicine,
   agriculture or many of the usual work-involving pursuits !

[beemanbeme]

I understand OPEC was alive before Aleyeska came along but as I remember, the long gas lines and the gas shortages coinsided with the original refusal to let them drill on the north slope and build the pipeline.  OPEC at that time was certainly not the major force it is now. In fact, I don't remember them as being that cohesive a group back then.  But then again, I sometimes have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast.

[ironglow]

Beeman;
   You're not alone in the memory dept ! If I hadn't just had my oatmeal 20 min ago. I would have to pause also ! I do recall that the oil crisis during the Carter
    administration was in 1973 !
   By that time, my brother was already working on the pipeline (heavy equip mechanic)...and my brother-in-law was hauling pipe on the ice road between Fairbanks
  and the North slope ! So it wasn't manufactured to spur development of the Alaska oil fields !  Do you remember..they even called it an "oil embargo" !
     
  A rundown of the circumstances then may refresh the situation..It's wikipedia, so not necessarily graven in stone, but if it were wrong on dates & principal parties,
  I am sure someone would have corrected them by now..

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

[williamlayton]

No one taught anybody how too do math. There is nothing new only things forgotten.
Man has been trading for profit since the creation--so none of this is NEW.----Greedy perhaps, but then greed is not a new event either.
Blessings

[oldandslow]

Sure glad you all got it figured out how many gallons are in a bbl. of oil. Kind of confusing when a barrel of the raw stuff has 42 gallons and a barrel of refined oil has 55 gallons.

The loooooong post that TM7 put up explains where a great deal of the price of a barrel of oil comes from and it is pure greed on the part of banks and oil traders. Too bad that they can't see that after they drive the country to it's knees with the effects of what they are doing that their little playhouse is going to come tumbling down around their ears.