223 vs 7.62x39

[B2crawler]

Have read in threads, mostly AR vs AK about the 7.62 having more knock down power and being the better round over 5.56 in FMJ.  What happens when you compare these two rounds with expanding bullets.  Lets say a 60gr V-max at 3,100 fps vs the 123gr hp at 2,300 or if you want the v-max in 7.62.  Now in this form....is there really going to be a noticeable difference?
Also what do most LEO use in their AR's?  Seems like using Black Hills or something similar would be less effective.

[SharonAnne]

B2, how is a brand of ammunition less effective?

[LCR]

Any expanding or varmint-grade bullet regardless of caliber, at 3,000fps, would be a vulgar display of power.

[SharonAnne]

now that is 2 of you who have me confused

[Mikey]

B2 - I don't think the caliber really matters at effective combat ranges with either rifle.  The M16/M4 in 223 is effective to 3-400m depending on your capabilities.  If you get hit with one of those at, or within, those ranges you are dead or seriously wounded. 

The cartridge capabilities of the 7.62x39mm AK round are about the same and have the same effect - they either kill you or hurt you too badly for you to continue. 

The effectiveness of these military/combat rounds is in their design to start to 'yaw' within about 7 inches of target material (you or me).  I think that if you added the 'expanding' bullet concept you may well detract from the ability of the round to penetrate effectively, especially if you are using them against a armoured or partially armoured target. 

I don't know what the police use so you would have to ask them.  If I were to use the 5.56x45 in a combat situation again, I would still prefer the fmj. 

Black Hills makes both mil-spec and hunting ammo.  Mikey.

[demented]

Lately there has lots of attention being paid to claims of the 5.56's ineffectiveness in combat in both Iraq and Afghanistan.  If the bullets turns sideways, if the bullet has sufficient velocity to fragment, it seems to do well.  When it does neither of these, its no more effective than a 22 magnum, 22 hole in, 22 hole out.  A soft pointed bulllet in that same 5.56 case is an entirely different ball game.  The destruction caused is almost unbelievable when considering the bullets original diameter.  The downside to this is lack of penetration depending on the placement of the bullet, I've seen deer hit in muscled areas run away, never to be found, bullets hitting the rib area causing internal damage akin to a small bomb going off inside the ribcage. 

[ronbow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16

Check out this site for some good info.

[phalanx]

What changed the 223 was when Russian Troops started using JHP ammo on the Chechnya rebels. The Hague immediately got involved but Moscow told them they were only Match Bullets and we will look into it . Then our troops started using 72gr JHP (Match) bullets in a rifle with a 1x7 twist .
Bingo ,the 223 wasn't little anymore , exit wounds looked like they had been hit with a 30cal ,or worse.
It was like if Russia is doing this ,so are we.