When is it time to give up and start over?

[rifleman]

A previous thread prompted this question. When (if things just aren't working) is it time to give up on a certain reloading component, (bullets, powder, primers, brass), but I'm thinking primarily bullets, but it could apply to the other components also. When do you say - "my gun just doesn't like this".

I've been reloading for about 8 years now, and I don't claim to have the answer, just looking for ideas and opinions. Generally though, I'll tend to stick with a selected bullet, brass and primer, and then try different powders,and powder charges till the cows come home. Only once that I can think of did I actually give up on a bullet in a particular rifle.

That was in my 260 Rem, and that was a tough one to find the right combo. It's still not what I'd call a tackdriver, but plenty good enough for short to mid range whitetail hunting. I'm guessing if I free floated the barrel it would greatly help. Ruger M77 MKIIs are not free floated at all.(at least in my meager experience with 2 different Ruger rifles).

Flame or comment away. I'm really looking forward to the ideas and comments.

And thanks in advance.

Dave

[John R.]

Dave that's usually how I do it also. The bullet I want to shoot is the last to go. I've had pretty good luck in being able to find a load that will work with the bullet I want to shoot. All guns are different and that's what makes it so much fun. 

[ricciardelli]

I never give up on the bullet or case.

If my first work-up stinks, then I select another powder, and re-work the load.

After I find the best porder, I then load a session using different primers (I always start with Remington), and ifanother primer shoots better, that become my load ... for life ... for that firearm.

[SHOOTALL]

how bad are we talking about ?
I use the furnished load data for the bullet i select most of the time and to be honest never had a real mess , some needed tweaking ! but no 4 in groups at 100 yard with a good center fire bolt gun . most were 2.5 or less . I am talking quality component's not the cheap stuff although have been surprised there also .

[huntswithdogs]

Really, this isn't as bad or hard of a question as you seem to think.
My recipes usually start with the bullet companies notes, either in the text about the particular caliber or margins with the charts. These are good representatives as to the type or Burn rate that this particular caliber seems to prefer. I'll start somewhere in the middle of the scale and load 5, move up a grain load 5 more and so on. I take these to the range and try them on paper. Usually when you get close to or surpass the "sweet spot" on a given load, the group will start to reduce and then open up. I start where the group size starts to tighten, and slowly increase the powder charge. How much depends, on the range you're dealing with.
If I get a sweet spot and I feel I can improve it by tweeking it with a different primer, I'll try it.

Some firearms just won't shoot some brands, styles or weights of bullets. I had a 300WM that didn't like 165 gr bullets. I don't know why, IT JUST DIDN"T. I tried all kinds of powders and it still shot patterns, not groups. When I got to the bottom of the box, I threw it away and never looked back. That rifle loved 180and 220 gr bullets and would shoot most others well enough to hunt with. I tried some more 165s just for kicks right before I sold it and it still shot patterns!


HWD

[rifleman]

Thanks for the replies.

You've echoed my general beliefs for the most part. I've reloaded for 223, 243, 25-06, 260, 270 and 38 Spl/357 Mag. The 260 was the only one to give me any real fits(and I still believe it's the rifle and not the bullets). The others were a fairly brief search for the right combo, or I stuck with it and the magic combo was found.

Dave

[Buckfever]

Rifleman, just a thought.  I start looking at loads in the site www. Reloadersnest.com.  After I check the various loads I start to get an idea of powder and amount to start at.  I usually know the bullet and weight I want to try based on distance and what I am hunting.  There is a lot of information there and it helps narrow down to loads that have worked for others sometimes with the same make and Model firearm.  Gets me going in the right direction I have had great luck in finding loads to fine tune this way! 

Buckfever

[beemanbeme]

If you are getting a consistant group even if it is large and wonder if free floating will help your grouping, try this before you start whittling on your stock.  Make several "washers" out of biz cards and put a couple on the action screws between the stock and the rifle.  You are in effect free floating the barrel.  Do the dollar bill thing and then see if your best group tightens up.  You might also try adding a biz card between the pressure point and the barrel and see if that added pressure helps.  A free floating barrel is not the straight road to Jeruselum some would have you think.
I am not dedicated to any bullet nor bullet company.  There's a whole lot of good ones out there.  I'll select the weight of bullet I want to use and pick one with a good (IMO) track record,  two or three powders in the burn rate that I think is best, and run a series with each powder. Once I've selected a powder, I check other bullets in a like weight and performance. If I started out with say a core lokt bullet and want to check out a Hornady, I don't do a whole new work up. If xxxgrs of xxx powder proved best for the core lokt, I'll try maybe .5 up and down but that's about it.
I'm talking about hunting loads.

[Siskiyou]

I think you have hit upon the .264 caliber dilemma; there is a wide of bullets, bullet weights, and different bullet lengths depending on the bullet design.  The barrel twist may not be a good match for the bullet you are loading.

The other day I was talking to my wildcatter brother who has a number of rifles in .264 chambering.  In fact my 6.5x55 was a gift from him.  Brother had been out shooting three of his rifles.  He expressed disappointment in his 6.5-.284 Winchester.  While on the target it was shooting large groups.

He had not had time to load for the rifle before this and he loaded 80-grain bullets.  He had successfully loaded this bullet for his 6.5-250 Savage.

My first response was that this bullet might be totally wrong for his 6.5-284.  This chambering has become very popular with the long-range competitors who like the Sierra 142-grain Match King bullet.  A twist that is adequate to stabilize that long bullet may lose accuracy when a stubby 80-grain bullet is pushed down it.
He is going to try loading some longer bullets to see if they perform better. 

We discussed powder, but we did not discuss what scope he has on the rifle.  He has some good scopes in his collection, but he has couples that are questionable.  He needs to go back and look at the scope and the mounting, they maybe the source of his accuracy problem.

Last year I replaced a scope on a rifle after taking a hard fall.  My foot became snared in an old phone wire in the pine needles.  After taking a few shots with pleasing result accuracy fell over.  A check showed the rear mount screws had sheared off.  Most likely this happen when I put a dent in the old scope.

In some cases a load will perform in one rifle and not another.  I had bought a few boxes of loaded WW 270, 150-grain PP ammunition.  It performed poorly in my Remington 760, which is a good shooter.  I set it aside to use on the range and salvage the brass for reloading.  When I tried it later on a re-scope Remington 700 it perform great on the target and later on deer.  I have now set aside three boxes of it for hunting loads in that rifle.

I have a favorite 270 Winchester load using H4831 powder and a 150-grain bullet.  When it comes to accuracy the Norma Match, and Serria Boattail tie for first place, closely behind is my favorite Hornady Spire Point, and the Remington C-L, and a distant fourth place is the Nosler Solid Base. 

I have a few hundred of the Nosler Solid Base bullets and one of these days I will revisit them trying a different combination.  I might switch to a different powder, and see where that takes me.

[charles p]

I've got a 25-06 I've had for about 30 years.  The good Lord only knows how many whitetail it has taken, but to this day I can not get a 117-120 grain bullet to shoot as well as a 100 grain bullet will in this rifle.  I guess I am hard headed because I still use the heavier bullets, and they kill just fine even at 300 yds, but a 100gr bullet prints better on paper.