Bob Barr is Libertarian Candidate For POTUS

[powderman]

DEE. Then your vote will count for osama obama. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

Dee, as I posted elsewhere, what all that's wrong with America isn't gonna be fixed in one national election. However, things can be made worse.  IMO we are starting at the wrong end of things if we think we can change things that way.

[powderman]

DEE. I understand your concern but you surely realize that your vote will benefit NOBODY but obama. POWDERMAN. 

[Ruskin]

The two parties are merging.  I guess when we send a normal person to Washington, it is not long before the corrupting influence wins out and we the people loose.

I hate to see a third party now because it will siphon votes away form the best of the lesser of two evils.

For a third party to succeed it must start seating representatives and senators from each of the states.  To go to the top of the ticket is a far leap.  A win would have a party of one without any support in either house. 

I have heard Barr speak.  If he thinks he can do what he wants to do without support in both houses, he is mistaken.  The bureaucracy will not police itself nor will someone fall on a sword for the betterment of our country if it means losing ones job or little kingdom.  Just not in human nature.

We've seen this coming a long time.  We don't have a plan in place to make a change.  Also, the young coming out of our schools, indoctrination factories, are looking for a cradle to grave messiah.  The individual of times past has been replace with the me generation, no Independence.

Mail tea bags to our elected officials.  Maybe it will get their attention.  It would require a commitment on our parts to speak out thoughout the year, not just a election time.

[beemanbeme]

Ruskins, you are rite and the tea bag idea is cute but it won't work, sad to say. It's like passing a generic letter around at work saying "some folks have been abusing their phone privileges". The ones that haven't, resent the letter and the ones it's directed at, wonder who they are talking about.

 A single elected official, no matter how good his intentions, soon learns that he just cannot buck the "good ole boy" system if he wants to get anything done.

[Dee]

DEE. I understand your concern but you surely realize that your vote will benefit NOBODY but obama. POWDERMAN. 

Gentlemen, that you disagree with me is ok by me, however. You guys, (me included for a while) have been voting for the lessor of two evils since Ronald Reagan left office. Because of this, the quality of candidates, has been getting worse and worse, until we are now at a point were there is not a nickel's worth of difference between the three candidates.
That you tell me, that I am wasting my vote, and assuring Obama a win, is not logical to me, as the only real difference in Obama and McCain is their stance on Iraq.
As I have already said. You guys have been using this same strategy of voting since Reagan left office, and it should be obvious to anyone paying attention that your strategy is not working. The Republican party continues to decline in conservatism, and you as Republicans continue to loose Constitutional and Bill of Rights ground, while you continue to hold on to a failed strategy.
I am not afraid to go against the status quo when I see it failing, and your continued strategy IS failing. BUT! This IS America, and as Americans we are ALL free to do what we think is best given our own convictions. To say that I am wrong, is your opinion, and everyone does not agree. I am not alone in my feelings, am even if I were, I will go with my gut, and gentlemen, I believe that this time you will be holding your nose to vote, and the next time you will be holding you butts, as the smell will continue to worsen.
Your next Republican candidate will be WORSE than this one, because once again you are settling for less. But then again, this is America. Your criticism of me is falling on deaf ears, as I do not believe in your "failed in the past several decades" strategy. You would do well to center on more important topics other than me, and my distrust of your failed voting strategy. I respectfully, am not with you on this one.

[williamlayton]

I respect everybody having a choice.
This splitting of the votes has created election turmoil before.
There is a great deal of difference between the two parties at this time---a world of philosopical difference--and the party is who we vote for in the Presidential election--like it or not.
This is not necessarlily the same in the House and Senate elections--almost, but there are some choices.
Like Dee, everyone makes decisions.
I will vote Republican because I do not even want there too be a chance of Obama---and for more and different reasons than I have seen here.
Blessings

[powderman]

DEE. I support your right to vote 3rd party, don't understand it, but I support that right. Myself, I'll vote for Mccain, he's the only chance we have to keep osama obama out of office. I'd like the idea of a 3rd party if there was one at the beginning of the campaign, but there wasn't. The only purpose it serves at this late date is as a spoiler, a drain of votes from Mccain to obama. I refuse to participate in that. POWDERMAN. 

[Dee]

It's America. 

[powderman]

DEE. YEP, best country in the world. POWDERMAN. 

[Graybeard]

DEE. YEP, best country in the world. POWDERMAN. 

Sadly not so long after the next election that will cease to be true.

[Dee]

DEE. YEP, best country in the world. POWDERMAN. 

Sadly not so long after the next election that will cease to be true.

You don't think McCain will fix all this?

[ironglow]

Dee % TM;

     No; I don't believe that McCain will "fix everything"..but I also do not believe he will destroy everything,... as a certain Muslim pretender (IMO) is likely to do.

    Just think of our Supreme Court over the next few years; after all, they are the ones that truly set the domestic agenda ! We could be getting a couple more
  like Roberts & Alito (McCain's favorites)..or we could be getting somebody like William Ayers, Weathermen terrorist..on the bench..perhaps Obama could pull a couple
  from the "ninth circus court".

     It's up to you, do you really want an Obama-nation ?.

[Ruskin]

Another issue is the nuclear threat that Iran will get a bomb then exploit it.

Who should deal with it?

Before one is set off?

After an attack on US shores as we clean up bodies?

[ironglow]

 Ruskin;
  Some of the earlier candidates in the presidential race actually called for us to abandon Israel...now can we see the wisdom of maintaining a non-treacherous
  friend in that area ?
  Before anyone starts the old war-chant about the USS Liberty..friendly fire sometimes happens. So, to be realistic, one must compare the USS Liberty with
  the numerouis attacks we have suffered from others in the region..
  It is a time like you mentioned when Israel shows to be an indespensible and important ally. A few F-22s and some "bunker busters" and the boil is lanced...

[Graybeard]

You don't think McCain will fix all this? 

Personally I do not think McCain can be Obama more especially so because of the dissatisfied such as yourself who would normally vote Republican throwing their votes to third party candidates to show the Republican party how unhappy you are with them. I too am unhappy with them and with McCain but there is no way I'm gonna help Obama get elected by using my vote in any way other than by giving it to McCain as little as I like the choice of him as President I like it far more than having the closet muzlim in that office.

But as a more direct answer no I do not think McCain will fix anything much less everything. Still he will make better selections for the vitally important Supreme Court appointments that will no doubt come open during the next Presidential term or terms. He will not sell us out to the muzlims and give our country to them altho he might give it to Mexico.

I'm not happy with the choices I have but I am realistic enough to accept the fact that the next President will be either McCain or Obama and given that choice I must do all in my power to avoid it being Obama. Not that there is all that much I can do other than voice my distaint for him and to vote for the only person with a chance of defeating him.

Once  this country turns the office of President over to a muzlim it will be too late to return to what this country once was. The muzzies will pour into this country in such numbers during the first four years of his term that never again will we see another non muzzie President in this country unless and until a civil war is fought and won and that to my mind is an extremely unlikely event to happen in the next 50-100 years. By then assuming the US still exists and the world is still here they will have ruined the US and thrown away the power this country has to the point a civil war might be fought and won after all they will return us to the stone age by then anyway so the central government might not have the power it does today to turn back an uprising of the magnitude needed to return us to the Constitutional Rule that our founding fathers gave us. That will not happen in my life time.

[Dee]

You don't think McCain will fix all this? 

Personally I do not think McCain can be Obama more especially so because of the dissatisfied such as yourself who would normally vote Republican throwing their votes to third party candidates to show the Republican party how unhappy you are with them. I too am unhappy with them and with McCain but there is no way I'm gonna help Obama get elected by using my vote in any way other than by giving it to McCain as little as I like the choice of him as President I like it far more than having the closet muzlim in that office.

But as a more direct answer no I do not think McCain will fix anything much less everything. Still he will make better selections for the vitally important Supreme Court appointments that will no doubt come open during the next Presidential term or terms. He will not sell us out to the muzlims and give our country to them altho he might give it to Mexico.

I'm not happy with the choices I have but I am realistic enough to accept the fact that the next President will be either McCain or Obama and given that choice I must do all in my power to avoid it being Obama. Not that there is all that much I can do other than voice my distaint for him and to vote for the only person with a chance of defeating him.

Once  this country turns the office of President over to a muzlim it will be too late to return to what this country once was. The muzzies will pour into this country in such numbers during the first four years of his term that never again will we see another non muzzie President in this country unless and until a civil war is fought and won and that to my mind is an extremely unlikely event to happen in the next 50-100 years. By then assuming the US still exists and the world is still here they will have ruined the US and thrown away the power this country has to the point a civil war might be fought and won after all they will return us to the stone age by then anyway so the central government might not have the power it does today to turn back an uprising of the magnitude needed to return us to the Constitutional Rule that our founding fathers gave us. That will not happen in my life time.

All good points to cause one to RE-CONSIDER one's decision, and I indeed will re-consider the idea. I suppose it will be as always, as to whether one wants to arrive in Hell by express train, or donkey cart. One is faster, while the destination is the same. However, the cart does indeed afford more time to think of alternatives prior to actual arrival.
Your last paragraph carries the most weight with me in your argument however, as I feel it is true, and something I had not considered. Excellent perspective.

[billy_56081]

I have to agree with Graybeard, I will not help Barrak Husien Obama to the white house. Voting for a third party is as good as not voting at all. And yes I'll take the donkey cart to hell. I used to have me an old burro named Roosevelt, he carried me safley up and down the mountains of SW Colorado. He never let me down.

[powderman]

GRAYBEARD. Well put and true. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

Graybeard;
  Couldn't have voiced it better myself !  Excellent, and scary but true..post ! 

   McCain is not my real choice either, but given the choices we have, voting for McCain is like choosing, if such were posssible, a case of the Flu over terminal Cancer..
   The only question left then is, politically..do we choose flu or cancer ? Not a great choice..but the obvious way to go is clear..

[Dee]

TM7, I personally don't disagree with you on what you said, however, Minnesota has a Muslim senator, and should Obama make a good impression early on in a presidency, he could lead the sheeple to be swayed to a more Muslim friendly government, and that truly would be America's demise.
It IS a bitter pill voting for a CLOSET LIBERAL such as McCain, but I would have to agree in the end, Obama would be FAR worse.

[Dee]

To stay on topic TM7, history has provided the source of both Christianity, AND Islam. They are both the result of one man. Abraham!
Abraham was promised a son by God, and his wife Sara was 90 years old. He took Sara's advice (and bad advice it was) and had a child with HER hand maid. This hand maid named Hagar produced an illegitimate son for Abraham name Ismael which was rejected by God. Ninety year old Sara later produced Abraham a son God BLESSED.
Abraham was the first Hebrew, followed by his son Issac, and so on. Ishmael on the other hand was banished from Abraham's home as he was a trouble maker from the beginning. One of Ishmael's DIRECT descendants is MOHOMMAD.
SO! With that said, this Christian vs Muslim is not new, but in fact about 7,000 years old, and will only get worse.
History lesson over. Had you rather be under Christian rule or Muslim. You have at times been under Christian rule, but ahhh, the Muslim is something entirely different.
With GB's last statement in perspective it is a no brain er, I had not thought of. It is a bad time, to try and straighten out a mess that has been a long time coming. Perhaps AFTER the election. Yes?

[powderman]

DEE. Well said and all true. POWDERMAN. 

[Ruskin]

In the up coming general election, Obama will have to speak off the cuff.  He cannot do it.  He is scripted.  He has no original thought.  He is totally ignorant of Econ 101, American history and our rights.  The proof was when Billary clean his clock in the debates.  He was standing there like kalijah the cigar Indian sung by Gentleman Jim Reeves.

His plan for our safety does not begin with the belief we can lay down our arms and the world will join us in song.  Many in this world want us wiped off the face of the earth.  It seems Obama hasn't figured that out.  If we elected him the thought of having a nuclear weapon go off on our shores is greatly increased.

[Graybeard]

While I agree we need to yea must turn things around and change the way both parties are tending to become one it cannot and never will be done at the national level first. It is said that all politics are local and that is where the tide must be turned is locally.

No third party candidate can win a Presidential election in this country today. They will never do so unless and until such time as we run good third party candidates at local level and they win there. Once we have many third party office holders at the local county, city and state levels then and only then will that party have the strength to go against the big two at the national level. To think otherwise is to merely put the party you care least for in power.

No the only logical and smart choice is to hold your nose and vote the lesser of evils for President and even for US Congress for now. Put those good third party folks in at he city, county and then state level and eventually they will gain the attention and power needed to become US Congressmen and Senators and then if they are truely good men they will become a force to be reckoned with and in time will be in a position to run for the office of President. But now is not the time to try to elect a third party candidate to that office. They cannot win and will only assure a victory for the one we all know deep down we cannot stand to win.

If you truly want change work for it at the local levels and in time it will filter upward to the national level and even to the office of President. Not in my life time will we see the needed changes but if all the good people of this nation would wake up and vote smart beginning at the local level and then move it upward as time goes along then perhaps some day it could reverse the trend we're seeing. Otherwise it's just gonna be more of the same forever until this nation falls from within.

[deltecs]

Either we all hang together or we all hang separately...I forgot what Sup Ct judge said that ard 1805.

...TM7

Ben Franklin.   Remark, July 4, 1776, at the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

[ironglow]

 TM & others;
  Re-read Tm's last post..In my humble opinion, his view of mideast history seems to be pure Muslim theology !

   TM: Where on God's green earth, does it say that Abraham had anything to do with the Ka'aba ? What kind of history are you reading..a twisted history written by Muhammad ?
   That stuff is really weird; no wonder you seem to struggle with Jews and Christians ! You claim your wife is Jewish; what does she think of this theory ?
 Is she Jewish by faith or simply descended from Jews, by ethnicity ?
  I would have a hard time picturing a practicing Jew allowing that stuff around..

    Anyway, that is not the discussion here, take it over to the non-Biblical religions section..

     In the meantime, we must do all we can to prevent a Muslim takeover of the USA..or be ready to explain to our grandchildren..through the veil on their birkas..

[ironglow]

  TM;
      Ka'aba..Yup. I suspect we all know what that big, cubic assemblage of rock is that the Muslims feel obliged to walk around to demonstrate their
    servitude to Muhammad's myths.
  Yes; we know WHAT it is..but wonder where you ever got the idea that Abraham had anything to do with it !

       Again; off topic..let's keep this thread upon the Muslim in question...

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Abraham certainly did build it, he had to have a crapper somewhere.
BTW. Kawlija was sung by Charlie Pride, not Jim Reeves. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  TM;
    Let's see; Adam, Abraham and descendants of Noah built the place of idol worship called the Ka'aba ? Now, that IS a tin hatter..
    If you got that from the Bible..must be different than the Judeo/Christian Bible !
  You are partially correct in that some of Noah's descendants built the cube...the Arab descendants..after 620 A D.

     ..Book, line, verse please.

  Actually, a bit of internet research will tell you that the Koran is the only book that claims Abraham built that rock pile..
  At least we now know where you derive some of your "facts" from..