Author Topic: Bob Barr is Libertarian Candidate For POTUS (Read 6222 times)

Dee · « **Reply #60 on:** June 10, 2008, 12:57:07 PM »

Quote from: TM7 on June 10, 2008, 01:54:04 AM

Quote from: ironglow on June 09, 2008, 03:35:37 PM
TM;
Ka'aba..Yup. I suspect we all know what that big, cubic assemblage of rock is that the Muslims feel obliged to walk around to demonstrate their
servitude to Muhammad's myths.
Yes; we know WHAT it is..but wonder where you ever got the idea that Abraham had anything to do with it !

Again; off topic..let's keep this thread upon the Muslim in question...
.
Yep,,,it's a cube...not a pyramid. Adam was instrumental in laying it down to...think I got this info from the Bible.

PM...you're turning into a one act play.

...TM7

If you mean you got it from THE Bible, I would sure like to have the Book, Chapter, and verses, because I don't believe it's there. Educate me on this TM7. Where in the Bible, did Adam do this.

powderman · « **Reply #61 on:** June 11, 2008, 03:21:14 AM »

tm. Still waiting. Chapter and verse in the real Bible, not satans handbook. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #62 on:** June 11, 2008, 04:56:22 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on June 11, 2008, 01:30:16 AM

Okay, I can do that....and yes... the Koran expressly documents this concept...that is true.
Now ,before I document the supporting passages in THE Bible can we agree on a few things: a] the Bible is the word of God, b] it is pretty much true and historically, genelogically, and chronologically correct, c] as holy books go it has been re-wrtten, edited, versionized, translated more than any other holy book, d] we Christians pretty much either take it literally and others take it via interpretation. We agree...?

....TM7

My stance on the Bible IS that although some will disagree, I personally believe that the original KJV is the BEST translation. The others from Europe, i.e. England printed from Wescott & Hoyt, are counterfeits, and eliminate or change over 65,000 scriptures. I hold the NIV, NEW KJV, NEW American Standard and others from these gentlemen in NO REGARD. They are copy righted books made to tickle the ears.
As for the Bible I believe it is the ABSOLUTE Word of God, and is ABSOLUTELY true in all respects. Now with that said, how about those verses? Book, Chapter, and verses. Anything as monumental concerning Adam should be in all versions.

powderman · « **Reply #63 on:** June 11, 2008, 04:55:23 PM »

tm. As usual you leave out what you want. Hagar was also told by the angel that ishmael would lead a troubled life, that he would be against every man, and every man against him. Guess you forgot that. POWDERMAN.

powderman · « **Reply #64 on:** June 12, 2008, 03:27:24 AM »

tm. Thats horsecrap even for you. Their messiah lives in a well in iran. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #65 on:** June 12, 2008, 04:46:21 AM »

TM;
Your post was interesting..but nebulous and disjointed..
You tell the story about Hagar and Ishmael..quoting THE Bible..then you say "the Islamic version"..sorry, there is no Islamic version of the Bible..

You try to justify Ishmael as being the chosen son of Abraham..you say he could not have been illegitimate, since Abraham was married to Hagar.
Ishmael was illegitimate because the marriage was illegitimate..simply for the reason that Abraham and Sarah were going against God when they tried to
circumvent his plan. The marriage should not have happened and the boy should not have been born.

Ishmael is the child of disobedience

It is interesting that with so much study of the Isaac/Ishmael thing that you missed (Gen 17:15-22) where the Bible clearly explains why Isaac is
the son of promise.
Yes, (Gen 17:22-27) admits that Ishmael is the son of Abraham but not the son of promise !

You have however, provoked me to an interesting study:

We know that old Satan is a great deceiver and likes to "imitate" things God does. We know that someday there will be an imitation
of Christ (God's son of promise),called the Anti_Christ ( the disobedient one).

We are aware of theophanies, Old testament appearances of Christ..Here in Genesis already, we have a picture of the "Son of promise" and
the "son of disobedience"....

Is this a theophany of the real Christ and a picture of the imitation of Christ ?

powderman · « **Reply #66 on:** June 12, 2008, 04:56:22 PM »

tm. Still waiting, chapter and verse please. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #67 on:** June 13, 2008, 12:40:41 AM »

TM;
Some of the things that work to polarize the three "major religions:
A) When one religion of "the three" figure they have some right to decapitate practitioners of the other two.

B) When the adherents of one of "the three" assume they have some type of "divine right" to bomb gatherings of the other two.

C) When the men of one of "the three" find it in their interest to treat the women under this system with great unfairness, oppression and cruelty.

D) When one of "the three" expect extra advantages, even in nations not (yet) dominated by their flavor of worship..e.g. foot baths and prayer rooms in
public facilities, being allowed through airport security in full disguise, with no more than eyes showing. (really handy for terrorists !)

E) when the practitioners of one of "the three" consider it acceptable to inflict various types of terrorism upon non-practitioners.

F ) When a government that is propped up by one of "the three" will not allow free exchange of theological ideas, so each individual can decide for themselves.

G ) " " " " " " " " " " " " Sets extra fees and taxes upon those of other faiths within their realm.

H ) " " " " " " " " " " " " bases actions on the whims of current elites of the "favored" religion.

I could go on for some time..but I assume most folks that are clear thinking can see the mismatch concerning tolerance levels between the three major faiths !

powderman · « **Reply #68 on:** June 13, 2008, 03:20:42 AM »

IRONGLOW. Yep. Still no chapter and verse from tm I see. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #69 on:** June 13, 2008, 11:06:33 AM »

TM;
Since you started quoting the Bible, I am pleased to see that you included Gen 17:20..perhaps you did not notice Gen 17:19 :

" And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed, and thou shalt call his name Issac: and I will establish my covenant with him
for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him ."

You say the Muslims have no problem with Isaac..I suppose we and Israel have no problem with Ishmael. ..But as for some of Ishmael's descendants ?
Ishmael himself hasn't been doing the thousands of terrorist attacks around the globe..

you asked me if in my #77 post, I was talking about Israel..ask the others here; I'm sure they know by simple observation, just who I was talking about !

powderman · « **Reply #70 on:** June 14, 2008, 03:28:40 AM »

IROBGLOW. You were speaking about the Godless ones. Still no chapter and verse from tm I see. The koran don't count, only Gods book. POWDERMAN.

powderman · « **Reply #71 on:** June 14, 2008, 03:31:00 PM »

tm. You are the one that said Abraham built the kaaba, you said it was in the Bible, not me. Chapter and verse please, or retract your phony statement. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #72 on:** June 14, 2008, 03:47:53 PM »

The Lord talking to Hagar;

Genesis Chapter 16 verses 11 & 12. Verse 11. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name ISHMAEL; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.
Verse 12. AND HE WILL BE A WILD MAN; HIS HAND WILL BE AGAINST EVERY MAN, AND EVERY MAN'S HAND AGAINST HIM; AND HE SHALL WELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.

Ah yes, a very fitting description of Islam AND Ishmael, is it not?

Genesis Chapter 17 verse 21. But MY COVENANT (GOD'S) will I establish with ISAAC, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time IN THE NEXT YEAR.

In this same Chapter moving down to verse 25, you will find Ishmael being circumcised at about the same time God spoke to Abraham and Ishmael is aged at 13 years of age. Your off there TM7.

In Genesis Chapter 17, verse 18 Abraham tried to push Ishmael to the forefront, but God REJECTED the marriage AND the son born of it, as He (God) did not recognize the marriage as legitimate, nor the son (Ishmael).
In the same Chapter and NEXT VERSE (Verse 19), God RECOGNIZED the UNBORN ISAAC, which would be born of the only wife God recognized Abraham to have.
Scripture could not be plainer.

But then you would also need to go on to Genesis Chapter 29 verse 9, where Ishmael MOCKED his rival Isaac. Then to verse 13, explains WHY God blessed Ishmael, but not because he was a good kid. He wasn't. And then verse 14, where both he AND his mother were banished for Abraham's household.
There WAS NO relationship between he and his father Abraham after that, much less them travelling to Mecca or anywhere else together. Ishmael was an OUTCAST.
In Genesis Chapter 25 verse 9, Ishmael returned to help bury his father.

On a final note, your statement of the Muslim considering Christ as the Messiah, is absurdly blasphemous. It is common knowledge that Christ to the Muslim is a LESSOR PROPHET to Mo hammed.
You not only need to STUDY the Bible BEFORE you start quoting scripture, you need to also STUDY Islam. Your attempt at doing both shows your lack of knowledge concerning both. Your attempt at combining the two, flies in the face of God Himself. No self respecting Christian, with any knowledge of scripture at all would accept such garbage.
What folks like you REALLY NEED TO DO, is to move to a Muslim nation and live under Sharia Law for a while.

powderman · « **Reply #73 on:** June 14, 2008, 04:40:57 PM »

DEE. Well said and true. He knows too well what islam is, and supports the Godless ones . POWDERMAN.

nomosendero · « **Reply #74 on:** June 15, 2008, 04:49:53 AM »

TM7, the Bible is not full of contradictions, in fact not at all. Heatherns, Athiests & folks like you whether you are one of the two or more likely just a butt licking Muzzie want-to-be have been trying to prove the Bible false for years. This is your big chance, show the glaring contradiction. I have been reading your hate filled nonsense less & less & after this thread I think it will be quite enough for me.
So show us the "contradiction" & we know how scriptures can look pulled out of the air, but we also know how they harmonize with study.

BTW Dee, very good & TRUTHFUL post!!!

billy_56081 · « **Reply #75 on:** June 15, 2008, 05:52:16 AM »

BTW Dee, very good & TRUTHFUL post!!!
[/quote]
.
I already did point out some things open to interpretation and so did Dee. I normally don't like to get involved in religious tit-for-tat discussions for just this reason as exemplified in your narrow, very narrow, rigid views. It is not my fault that robust truthful discussion is painful to you....it is just too bad when your egotistical rational scheme of things gets challenged. Maybe you PM, Dee, IG, and the rest of the close minded literalists are all closet muzzies in mind and deed and don't even know it. Certainly seems that way to me with your hate filled agitated speech with butt-licking this and butt-licking that; and if you want to read some hate filled stuff read your own posts and the guys I mentioned. Frankly, I do agree in your 'harmonize with study', so why don't you study and open up your mind to a little light. There are many kinds of Christians around besides literalist evangelist btw...you might want to consider this...I'm not an evangelist and consider 'evangelism' hyjacking of Christianity. Frankly, I consider guys like you the un-Americans and the un-Christians and what is so very wrong with this country. So why don't you just go lick the butt of your like minded comrades in hate....

...TM7
[/quote]

WOW! What hate, Hitler woulda loved this guy!

Dee · « **Reply #76 on:** June 15, 2008, 06:18:15 AM »

TM7, you may save you rhetoric for others, and the thread space. You have proven to me, to be unreachable in regard to scripture. I will take the advice of Christ himself and "shake the dust from my sandals", and move on. You will not make ANY points with me as to your belief, so I recommend not wasting your time.

With that said, gentlemen, I apologize for getting OFF TOPIC for a bit, but felt the calling for a bit of truth to be injected concerning TM7's dis-informational posts, concerning God's Word. There was and is, nothing to be gained reading his beliefs is my personal opinion. But, that's just my opinion, so I will withdraw from his discussion on the matter, and get back on topic.

nomosendero · « **Reply #77 on:** June 15, 2008, 07:56:52 AM »

Billy, I don't think Hitler liked the Bible very much nor was a faithful student.
But Billy besides that, thanks for waking me up on my part of this discussion.

No doubt I was too harsh in responding to TM7 & I regret that. I also know however with all of the bobing & weaving we don't have
contradiction in the scriptures, but differing views of those. I will be watching for proof of the contradictions today, but I won't be holding my breath. And yes, as an American I believe that TM7 or you can believe in the tooth ferry if you wish & I would protect that right, but I don't like false statements & I also feel I have the right to say that, nothing NAZI about that & you have the right to your opinion.

So I do apologize for the post as being unneeded & harsh. As Dee correctly stated, doing as Christ stated & teaching his followers to
"shake the dust from my sandals" & move on would have been good for me today as I would not have made a statement that I regret.

Now I don't regret the statement that TM7 made about me, just the opposite, I feel it is a complement considering his views & confirms that I am on the right track, thanks TM7!!!! If anyone does not understand that, they only need to go back & read his previous post & that will do the trick. Thanks again TM7, I feel much more American now.

Dee said "there was & is, nothing to be gained reading his beliefs in my personal opinion". I could not have said it better, in fact other than waiting today to read that "contradiction" I am done with his posts as they offer zero value to me period.

nomosendero · « **Reply #78 on:** June 15, 2008, 09:19:56 AM »

I am not sure that Dee forfeited his intellectual powers. You say you address some of the contradictions of the "anti-Ismael cult". Well, whether that is imaginary or real is one issue, but in the next post you say the Bible is "full of contradictions". So again, I may be "rigid"
for asking, but let's see them!

As far as not believing the "faiths are to be pitted against each other" as you said, well I would have to look at what CHRIST had to say about that subject. In John 14:6 states, even in red ink: "I am the way, the truth & the life:no man cometh to the Father, but by me." So, that is what Jesus said, no need to think a Christian as being a follower of Christ is being "rigid" for believing it. But like his example, we won't cut someone's head off if they choose not to believe it. They have the freedom of choice in this life.

I will check the rest of the day to read those "contradictions" as previously stated. Other than that I see no additional discussion on the matter
worthy of my time.

deltecs · « **Reply #79 on:** June 15, 2008, 09:52:37 AM »

In a half hearted attempt to get back on topic, interpretation and contradictions are definitely a part of politics. Are we going to parse the word "is" again like previous presidents, or attempt to elect Presidents and Congressmen, who interpret the Constitution with a constructionist view?

powderman · « **Reply #80 on:** June 15, 2008, 02:08:27 PM »

tm. You speak utter garbage. None of the Godless ones sees Jesus as the Messiah, quite a stretch even for you. Don't rank their prophets??? Another lie. The only one they follow is mohamed, a false prophet, murderer, child molester, rapist, warlord, etc. Retract your statement about Abraham building the Godless ones a stone idol, or give us chapter and verse. Period. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #81 on:** June 16, 2008, 04:10:51 AM »

TM;
A bit of correction is in order "it is pretty much accepted that the Messiah is Jesus in Christian and muzzie circles"..perhaps a bit technical for an unbeliever (Christian-wise),
but Jews, who are still looking for the Messiah; and Christians, who believe they have found him..agree on the most important point that the Messiah IS THE SON OF GOD !!
The Muslims dispute this, perhaps only saying that Christians only THINK that Jesus is Messiah. In fact, the muslims claim that "God has no Son".
This of course, puts them at odds with both Christians and Jews.
The biggest difference I see in the three is that Christians, while perhaps trying to "convert" Jews, harbor no animosity against any of them, nor place any burden
upon them because of their faith, while Jews are happy to "live and let live" with Christians. I don't see such charitable aspects of Islam..

See;
www.angelfire.com/journal2/dome_images/

powderman · « **Reply #82 on:** June 16, 2008, 05:40:43 AM »

tm. Just as I figured, you can't produce proof that Abraham built the stone outhouse the Godless ones flock to every year. The only reason I don't put you on ignore is that you are a daily reminder that satan is alive and well. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #83 on:** June 16, 2008, 08:03:17 AM »

TM;

Don't expect you may recognize it, but by declaring that "God has no Son", is offensive to Christians..but they have a right to their opinion. That is more than they
would grant me !
Nobody, especially myself suggest razing the "dome of the rock" and the Jews have not disturbed it at all..unlike what some Muslims have done to Joseph's tomb !

Can't believe you would ask so sophomoric question concerning what the Bible has to say about Jesus being "the Son of God".. There are nearly 200 instances of such
in the Bible (KJV). Her are a few..and who claimed Jesus as the Son of God, and the verse where found.

Satan (Matt 4:3)Matt Demons (Matt 8:29 & 14:33) Peter (Matt 16:16) Witnesses (Matt 27:42,43)

Centurtion (Matt 27:14) The angel Gabriel ((Luke1:32,35) John (John1:34) Jesus (John 1:50,51)

God (John 3:16-36) all 12 disciples (John 6:69) Martha (John 11:27) Peter (Acts3:13)

Paul (Romans 1:40)

Jesus affirmed his sonship in (John 9:35-38) also (John10:34-38) and (John 20:28-31)

God confirmed it in (Matt 3:17, matt 17:25, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22, and 2Peter 1:17)

As far as your other assertions that Christians are not mentioned in the Bible and that Christianity tok hold first in Rome..FALSE
I direct you to :

(Acts 11:26b);

.... " And it came to pass, that for a whole year they assembled themselves with the church,
and taught much people. And the disciples were called CHRISTIANS first in Antioch. "

Uh....TM, that was long before any of the dfisciples had traveled to Rome......

So; for the "Son of God" and "Christians" mistake you may print your retraction and apology in your next post..thank you !

Now; if you wish to continue this discusion , move it to the Bible forum..OK ?

ironglow · « **Reply #84 on:** June 16, 2008, 09:37:15 AM »

So you won't accept the word of Jesus in the verses I furnished ..or even God's own words (e.g. " This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased") your reading comprehension is is a serious way; my condolences to you...

Now; for your remark about the term "Christians" not being in the Bible ?.... " And the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch." (Acts 11:26b)

Fellow posters; observe the refusal to face proofs...

Touche'...TM..We have little more to talk about on this subject..

powderman · « **Reply #85 on:** June 16, 2008, 11:18:11 AM »

IRONGLOW. Agreed Sir. See, he still has no chapter and verse. I take that as an admission of falsehood. POWDERMAN.

nomosendero · « **Reply #86 on:** June 16, 2008, 04:16:20 PM »

Quote from: TM7 on June 15, 2008, 11:21:04 AM

NS,,,read my post #70 and 79, and Dee's #85.... are the verses cited contrary to each other, or minimally do people interpret passages form the vengeful perspective.... or from the reinstatement perspective? If we read some of the other Gospels things get clearer, but that is not allowed.. Let's just say that Abraham had no troubles with his sons, and was legally married to Hagar as I pointed out. (Other Gospels point to a name changes between the two also, but let's not go there now.) If you had a second wife from a different tribe would you love here less, if she bore sons would you love them less or squelch their inheritances and so forth?. This is in part what I mean about suspending intellect, a general statement by the way and not aimed at Dee. So, when reading the Bible one might want to ask himself am I reading this to support certain prognostications or am I open to the message at large. In any case, I'm of the opinion that today religion is being used to foment war more than at any other time in history. I also fear that the evangelicals are not the real Christians but are the return of the Pharisees incarnate, something that will be evident one of these days. If you are a serious religion student than make it your business to study the no-a-hide laws. I have no problems with anything Jesus has said of course, he even saying "I am of the sword."

..TM7

I read the posts & Dee nailed it!! The ONLY thing in your posts that demands further study is the age difference of the 2, I will look at that
some more Wed, Thur.

Fazak · « **Reply #87 on:** June 16, 2008, 06:21:27 PM »

'da hell does this all have to do with Bob Barr?

beemanbeme · « **Reply #88 on:** June 17, 2008, 02:40:06 AM »

In a minute they're gonna start arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin to show what hot shot Bibical scholars they are. Don'tchaknow.

powderman · « **Reply #89 on:** June 17, 2008, 03:16:30 AM »

I'm no scholar but have read the Bible through 3X. I know that Abraham never built the stone idol that the Godless ones swoon over each year. That was another of tms lies that he refuses to retract.
fazak. If ya don't like it, don't read it, use your scroll. POWDERMAN.