Use Cannons...You can ask all about me !!!

[Gatto_Gunmaker]

Hello everyone,

Very recently I write in this beautiful forum.
I never write here because my previous distributor is not allowed.
Since 2008 I don't have distributor in the USA and I can send my cannons directly to the clients in their country.

I read many comments about my products here, and want to make clarification on all these issues.

 I am the only factory in Argentina of antique weapons with government recognition.
I'm sorry  to everyone for my little knowledge of English language.


Since two years I send the cannons with a pipe with the special black powder measure just  for use with lead ammunition.
I also make the mold for you make ammunition in your house with lead, resin or plaster. (My all models cannons only).

My all cannons are tested for use of lead ammunition without a patch of cloth around the ball.

The steel inner tube is to normalize the caliber and provide a smooth surface perfect.
The bronze may well resist the pressure of shooting with black powder measure correct.
I tested one by one each cannon before sending.
The last dealer does not ever deliver my instructions guide to users because they do not want clients  to know who is a manufacturer.
Besides "I send free" of measure pipes Black powder charge fair and that person sold separately.
For that all thing, I do not sell more cannons for this person.
I want to clarify all this.
My 3 models mortars, do not shoot ammunition lead, because the original ammunition was not lead ammunition, must be lightweight.
The same case, for 2 Mountain Howitzer models I constructed .
In these cases the wood can be broken, but the tube remain intact. Please, do not use heavy ammunition for this models.
All other models can use ammunition made of lead, iron, resin, plaster or tennis balls or golf balls.
But it must respect the amount of Black Powder correct measure.

Please comment this 
Thanks

[KABAR2]

We had a recent discussion on a cannon I believe you made, perhaps you could clear up a question
as to the type of steel you are using and weather it is seamed or seamless.
Here is the link to the discussion on the Mountain Howizter in question.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,143867.0.html

[Gatto_Gunmaker]

I posted a message for HuecoDoc (My new Mountain Howitzer)


Thanks

[Gatto_Gunmaker]

Thank you all for your patience.

It is true that my products have no support to help customers, but we regret this situation. 
My before seller  have the obligation to provide reliable support. 
I time to help everyone, I hope.
Here send the link from my site youtube, there to see the videos. Coming soon in English.

http://es.youtube.com/osvaldogatto

Thanks and greetings !!!

[HuecoDoc]

If someone does have questions of/about Osvaldo, I can provide some information and I do have a number of friends from South America that can translate questions if needed.  FWIW, Wild Imports does not seem to have a working URL for the last month. PM me if needed.

[Graybeard]

Gatto is in the process of becoming a GBO Sponsor. I've not yet received his check so I've not changed his status to GBO Sponsor but I'm sure it's in the mail and on the way.

[Cat Whisperer]

I figured that was ' in-process '.

[cannonmn]

I've been told by a reliable source that Wild Imports has been out of business for a while now.  He bought a cannon from them, they shipped via DHL, and all he got was the carriage.  After a prolonged fight, he got his money back from DHL who claimed initially that they do not allow shipment of any kind of guns, antique cannons, or whatever and so anyone who claims to have shipped anything like that will not get their claim honored.  He got a lawyer and got paid but the lawyer took a good bit of the money of course.

I suggest avoiding DHL when you ship any kind of cannons, gun, accessory, or anything else for that matter.

[intoodeep]

I have seen that Wild Import is selling a few cannons on a popular auction website. They use a different name but, their location in Florida is still the same. I don't know if it's old stock or what.

[Gatto_Gunmaker]

The person who you talk is no longer my confidence.
I do not work with this person since 2008.
This person have some cannons . But I do not recognize as a seller.
I have understood that guy having severe economic problems and legal .

I have great interest in knowing details say Cannonmn
Since Argentina does not know much of this person.

I anyway, not wanting to continue much time talking about my antique seller.

I want to start with better people a future with many cannons and many friends
I do not believe factory the best cannons, which are just beautiful, work well and have good price.
At this moment I have a important vacancy, is all.

Please be patient, I within a few more days, be a sponsor of the forum and I talk of business.
The money is on way   

[Gatto_Gunmaker]

In all this time many people choose and buy my products.
For all this people I say THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For all this people that despite the N-SSA, and see that my product is good. Maybe the oxidize damage in 20 years, but is worth every dollar until that day.
This is a problem that is avoided with care and oil   
Thanks for testbeds of Germany and Spain. They adopt my work without problem and not interested in what the N-SSA thinks. They say "it works and .....ready"

Greetings to all   

[KABAR2]

In all this time many people choose and buy my products.
For all this people I say THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For all this people that despite the N-SSA, and see that my product is good. 

Yes your product maybe good but if one is investing money in a cannon and it will not pass N-SSA standard
he can not shoot in their events.  Allen <><

Maybe the oxidize damage in 20 years, but is worth every dollar until that day.
This is a problem that is avoided with care and oil   

There are cannons that are 200 years old and still being shot with no danger to the shooter,
Can the same be said with yours due to oxidation? 20 years?
None of us will be around in 60 years, would you want one of your tubes chance failing at a far future date ?

The solution is to change to seamless. You take pride in your work as those of old took pride in theirs
it would be sad to have to fill the bore with cement after 20 years because one can not chance an accident.  Allen <><



Thanks for testbeds of Germany and Spain. They adopt my work without problem and not interested in what the N-SSA thinks. They say "it works and .....ready"

That is fine if Germany and Spain have their own standards that are not in line with our N-SSA but we are not shooting in Germany or Spain.   Allen <><

Greetings to all   

[HuecoDoc]

I would like to know more about the German and Spanish methods of testing.  Does anyone have urls to online information?

[KABAR2]

I would like to know more about the German and Spanish methods of testing.  Does anyone have urls to online information?

Both Spain & Germany require firearms to go through a proofing process and a certificate is issued for each gun. I must assume it is the same with these cannon. but unless they meet N-SSA rules here, it is a mute point.

[Gatto_Gunmaker]

Yes, that's the point.

I try to reform my product in a different line, but much more expensive !!!
You make happy by trying to manufacture a cannon with a tube piece of 20 mm.
I say, you do not use welding to plug the tube on the end. Because you can only shoot in the garden of your house.
And I never welding the trunnions. This would be dangerous

Thanks

[HuecoDoc]

I'm not arguing the wisdom of the N-SSA rules, but for me the N-SSA is a moot point.  Although I wanted the ability (or hardware) to compete, they simply don't exist out here, and one can't belong if he doesn't have a local outfit to join.  So I guess safety is my concern as opposed to rule conformation.  If a proofing process exists that wouldn't harm the gun and could be done periodically to proof a seamed liner, I'd like to know about it.  Does anyone know how magnaflux behaves on an aging seamed sleeve, or would it really not be helpful here?

I would like to know more about the German and Spanish methods of testing.  Does anyone have urls to online information?

Both Spain & Germany require firearms to go through a proofing process and a certificate is issued for each gun. I must assume it is the same with these cannon. but unless they meet N-SSA rules here, it is a mute point.

[KABAR2]

Yes, that's the point.

I try to reform my product in a different line, but much more expensive !!!
You make happy by trying to manufacture a cannon with a tube piece of 20 mm.
I say, you do not use welding to plug the tube on the end. Because you can only shoot in the garden of your house.
And I never welding the trunnions. This would be dangerous

Thanks

Thanks for your concern, but there will be no welding involved, just sound machinist shop theory & practice.
As my thread develops you will see my "Garden gun" take shape & you will see it is well built,
accurate & with the rifled bore able to reach out well past the garden fence. .

[Double D]

Osvaldo,

Please under stand we are not trying to say your guns are bad.
Por favor, comprenda que no estamos tratando de decir sus pistolas son malos.

We are only saying the use of a  seamed liner is unsafe.
Estamos diciendo sólo la utilización de una línea seamed no es seguro.

In Europe your guns must first pass proof test as established by CIP.
En Europa sus armas primero debe pasar la prueba, establecido por el CIP.

This means when your guns were tested they passed a basic test for pressure.
Esto significa que cuando sus armas fueron probados que aprobó una prueba básica para la presión.

In the U.S. there is no proof system. 
En los EE.UU. no hay pruebas de sistema.

In the U.S. firearms must be built to a basic standard.
En los EE.UU. de armas de fuego deberán estar construidos de una base segura reasonalbe estándar.

Proofing is left up to the Manufacture.
Las pruebas se deja a la Manufactura.

In the U.S. if you build a firearm such as a cannon and it later fails, even twenty years later, you can be held liable.
En los EE.UU. si construir un arma de fuego como un cañón y más tarde fracasa, incluso veinte años más tarde, puede ser considerado responsable.

If you build a cannon with a material with a histroy of failure, such as welded seam tubing and it fails you can and will be held responsible for any death or injury. 
Si construir un cañón con un material con un histroy de fracaso, tales como tubos de costura soldada y que no se puede y se hace responsable de ninguna muerte o lesiones.


The fact that twenty years earlier your gun passed CIP proofing will not be a defense if you used faulty material.
El hecho de que veinte años antes su arma de fuego pasó CIP pruebas no será una defensa si utilizó material defectuoso.

It is also my understanding that under European Proof laws, the fact that your gun passed proof will not excuse you from liability if you knowingly used a material with a history of failure.
Es también mi entendimiento que, en virtud de la legislación europea La prueba, el hecho de que su arma de fuego pasó la prueba no le exime de responsabilidad si a sabiendas, utilizan un material con una historia de fracaso.

As far as the N-SSA is concerned, their experts on cannon safety and contruction have a long history of being called on by accident investigators and law enforcement to render the opinion on the failure of cannons.   
Por lo que respecta a la N-SSA se refiere, su cañón de expertos en seguridad y construcción tienen una larga historia de ser llamado por los investigadores de accidentes y la aplicación de la ley para hacer que la opinión sobre el fracaso de cañones.

Osvaldo, please understand we are only trying to help you understand that it is important that you use the best materials available when you build your guns for sale in the U.S. 
Osvaldo, por favor, comprenda que estamos sólo tratando de ayudarle a comprender que es importante que usted utiliza los mejores materiales disponibles en el momento de construir armas para su venta en los EE.UU.

You place yourself in a position of liability and endanger the shooting public if you don't.
Que usted coloque en una posición de responsabilidad y poner en peligro el rodaje del público si no lo hace.

From our converstions here, I realy don't think you are the type of person who would want to be responsible for someones death or injury twenty years from now!
De nuestro converstions aquí, yo realmente no creo que usted es el tipo de persona que quiere ser responsable de una muerte o lesiones veinte años a partir de ahora!

[dan610324]

    quote : important that you use the best materials available when you build your guns for sale in the U.S. 

I would say its of the same importance wherever you sell them , not only for the USA. that's why I have been asking you all questions , thanks for your pm , but I believe you should reply openly here in the forum for all people to see your answers .

its not any criticism , its just to make anything clear and help you to build an cannon as safe as possible , you are certainly producing very very beautiful cannons . It wouldnt be fun to see you sued for killing someone if any of your cannons would fail .

[Double D]

No Osvaldo we are not criticizing your cannon. Not at all.
No Osvaldo no somos criticar su cañón. No, en absoluto.

We are trying to help you understand the inherent weakness of welded seam tubing and its history of failure in the U.S.
Estamos tratando de ayudarle a entender la debilidad inherente de tubería soldada costura y su historia de fracaso en los EE.UU.

If I were casting cannon, I would make it a point to advertise that my cannons were made with seamless tubing to N-SSA Safety specifications.
Si yo fuera casting cañón, yo lo convierten en un punto de anunciar que mi cañones se hicieron con tubos sin costuras para N-SSA las especificaciones de seguridad.

It would be a selling point in the U.S. and Europe as N-SSA is a highly respectd organization, worldwide.
Sería un punto de venta en los EE.UU. y Europa como N-SSA es una organización altamente respectd, en todo el mundo.

[cannonmn]

>It wouldnt be fun to see you sued for killing someone if any of your cannons would fail .

Good luck sueing someone in another country; much better to invest a little more upfront and get something that is not in doubt at all. 

I wonder if Osvaldo has considered making cannons from solid steel?  When you do that you can use the least-expensive machinable steel there is (is that 1018 or 1020?) and make a cannon made to original "in cast iron" dimensions.  The resulting cannon will be perfectly safe under pressures generated by properly-granulated black powder used in accordance with original military loading specs.

[Double D]

Don't ever beleive you can't sue some on in in another country, especially some one doing busines in the country. Bank accounts and inventories can be attached.  Some countries even have treaties  allowing recovery of civil damages.

[Evil Dog]

Double D...   Did you maybe mean seamed tubing rather than seamless 

If you build a cannon with a material with a histroy of failure, such as seamless tubing and it fails you can and will be held responsible for any death or injury.

[Tropico]

This is just a thought I could not keep to myself however it is not aimed at any of the members here .., Its just my own off topic thought and not a personal attack of any kind Please do not be offended anyone.

So if someone builds a yard ornament type cannon and I blow myself up.., my family can  sue?
It seems there should be some personal responsibility here somewhere ?
Lets do not forget however this is the U.S. where you CAN sue McDonald's for obesity ., and also when you spill hot coffee on your self .., that's worth tens of thousands as well.  I find this to be true., and disgusting. The something for nothing crowd has sure hurt  society alot more than its helped it .
Medical doctors have closed their practices because they cant afford a 250,000.00 dollar malpractice insurance per year ., it goes on.  Where will it end ? this sort of behavior drives up the costs of medical for the rest of us.
Personally I figure I am responsible for ME . I had an employee slam his finger in the side door of my work  van. He was pissed. Blamed me for it    I figure its his finger and if he doesn't care about it..., why should I. I am in fact responsible for ALL my digits. I keep being held responsible for things I do ..., so why shouldn't  everyone else be responsible for themselves. ?

I know this sounds cold but....., Stupid people shouldn't breed .

[Double D]

Double D...   Did you maybe mean seamed tubing rather than seamless 

If you build a cannon with a material with a histroy of failure, such as seamless tubing and it fails you can and will be held responsible for any death or injury.

Yes correct and corrected.

If you build a cannon with a material with a histroy of failure, such as welded seam tubing and it fails you can and will be held responsible for any death or injury. 
Si construir un cañón con un material con un histroy de fracaso, tales como tubos de costura soldada y que no se puede y se hace responsable de ninguna muerte o lesiones.

[Double D]

Tropico,

You are right anybody can sue for anything.  The lady who burned herself with the hot coffe won, because MacDonalds kept their coffee to hot, but she didn't win as much as she might have because she was found partially responsiible because she was holding a cup of hot coffee between her legs while driving down the road.

If you knowingly build a cannon with faulty materials you could be held responsible for the results of a failure.  But if you sue and it an be shown you were aware of the danger of seamed tubing before you bought the gun, you probably aren't going to fair as well.

The yard ornament cannon is a good example of the idiot factor.  How many others have we seen come through here telling us their schedule 80 tubing is plenty strong. 

It's not the welded seam tube is weak, it isn't.  It's just not suitable for the application.

[dan610324]

OK there is plenty of us here interested in this question , I must just agree to DD when he say that an seamed tube can be very strong but its not suitable for cannons .

but now back to you mr gatto , why do you not answer my questions on constructions and dimensions on your tube and breach plug ??

I think thats much more interesting then welded or seamless tubes , because welded tubes does we all know are not suitable for cannons , end of discussion .

please show an complete technical drawing with  dimensions .

if you cant do that because you have "secrets" I would say that your cannons are unsafe to use as we dont know if its an gun or an potential pipe bomb .

Im so sorry if I got to use this hard words but its you who refuse to answer my basic questions about cannon construction safety .

[cannonmn]

"if you cant do that because you have "secrets" I would say that your cannons are unsafe to use as we dont know if its an gun or an potential pipe bomb"

Dan, lighten up a bit, anyone has the right to have trade secrets, and their products should not be condemned for it.  If you don't want to buy one because of lack of full disclosure, I'd say that is your privilege, but a blanket condemnation is not in order here at all.  I'm sure there are much worse tubes for sale out there, and there's no one representing them here on this board, so those are still "in the woodwork." 

Think of it this way, Sr. Gatto has come in here voluntarily and is discussing his products openly within the limits he feels comfortable with, and that's more than most of the tube makers have done.

[dan610324]

trade secrets are ok , but when it comes to safety I wouldnt say that its ok to refuse telling how they are designed .
especially as the outer is an 70/30 brass alloy and not bronze .
but all this is only my opinion , all are free to have their own opinion , thats what makes forums like this so interesting .

[seacoastartillery]

     Gatto Gunmaker,    It seems to us that Mr. Dan Pettersson of Sweden has presented you with a tremendous marketing and sales opportunity.  What you do with it is up to you.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy