My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN

[SharonAnne]

in another thread Mikey asked me to tell him about my .45 acp with 250,000 yds through it. Of the 250k I shot 125k.  Here goes:

I REALLY wanted a RACE GUN for IPSC competition. A guy at the club had one. I unwisely traded an L1A1 even up for it. 

It was a Colt series 70 with a 6" Clark barrel and a slide-contoured muzzle weight that made it look like a long slide and it was Magna-Ported. This was cutting edge stuff since John Shaw just won the US Nationals with a Clark Pin Gun.

I added a Bomar rear sight, new Olympic Arms grip safety and ambidextrous thumb safety. I chose the OA parts because they had a copper content that made them a dark purple when 'blued'. I like purple.

Later I had the front strap checkered 20 lpi, added a 20 lpi checkered mainspring housing and had the lower 1/2 of the grip safety stippled. The front of the trigger guard was checkered 30 lpi. I later wished the front strap was 30 and the trigger guard 20 lpi.

Compensators had begun to be the rage but I waited a bit. In 1987 I designed a 3 chamber 4 port compensator and had my smith build/install it. When I had a semi-private lesson with Rob Leatham he freaked when he saw it. "WHERE DID YOU GET THAT???". He had been shooting a Wilson Accucomp in .38super. Well, come to find out, Wilson was about to introduce his top secret, cutting edge, TWO chamber Accucomp. Rob was not pleased.

more later

[SharonAnne]

Later I destroyed my barrel. Don't ask, I won't say. My original smith was not available so I turned to George Smith, shop foreman of Behlert Precision.  I knew him from the work he did for many of the local shooters. I had George fit a new .45 barrel and make up a new 3 chamber compensator. He tried to talk me out of it but I persisted. Once he shot the new comp he immediately built one for a 38 super. Conventional thinking then was that anything beyond 2 chambers didn't help. So much for conventional wisdom. I think George, now at EGW, does 5 or 6 chambers.

I also had George fit a massive mag funnel.

When the shop sent several pistols out for bluing,the bluing shop dumped all hammers, sears, etc in one box. when putting the pistols together you got mix-n-match parts and I went from a sweet 2# trigger to a 6#+. I was not amused. By way of compensation Behlerts shop fit a thumb ledge on the left side of the frame directly above the trigger guard. You lock your left thumb down on it for a tighter grip. I LOVE IT.

I had a local smith do my trigger work. He was retired AirForce and bristled when I called him an armorer. He said "I am a GUNSMITH, not an armorer". Oohkay!! Anyway I told him what I wanted but he would not listen. He just said "you will like it". I didn't.

The pull was about 3 3/4# and I was used to a clean 2# and this was less than 'clean'.

A friend and local shooter had the hammer and sear jigs and stones as well as Jerry Kuhnhausen(sp) manual of the .45acp pistol. I read and reread that book. Finally I got up my nerve and set up the hammer jig with an old hammer I had laying around. Funny how we accumulate bits and pieces. I looked the hooks over under a 10x loupe and set to work. It probably took me a week to do the hammer. I squared the hammer hooks, set the length at 0.020" and polished the hooks. I must have taken 500 strokes with the ceramic hone. The hooks reflected like a mirror. I took the same amount of time on the sear. Cutting the secondary angle on the sear almost made me cry, changing the surface I worked so long to polish. After about 3 weeks total I felt ready to work on the sear and hammer that were in my pistol.

The hammer hooks were not only not 90 degrees, but had a hook on the end. Again, after much gentle cutting with the 90 degree,safe 2 sides file the hook was gone. I then reduced the  hook height to 0.020".  I know, I could have lowered them more but this was my first trigger job and I was being conservative. After about 500 strokes with progressively finer stones I set to work with the ceramic hone putting on the mirror polish. At last, mission accomplished.

Now for the sear. It went better the second time around and I didn't cry this time when I made the secondary angle cut.

Putting it all back together with Trigger Slick on the sear and hammer hooks, original sear spring and same main spring I went back to the gunsmith to have the trigger checked.  It broke cleanly at 2 1/4#. The 'smith' said "not bad". NOT BAD. It was worlds better than HIS work!

I ran it this way until 1991. Jerry Barnhart won the USPSA nationals, then Doug Koenig won the 1991 world shoot with red dot sights and the rush was on.  I mounted an Aimpoint 5000 with an 8moa dot an a grip mount. I loved the speed of finding the A zone but the grip mount left much to be desired. I called Chuck Hiett (formerly Red Buff) for one of his excellent scope mounts.

Now my .45 single stack full race IPSC gun was complete. Just in time to see the .38super crowd go to DOUBLE stack frames.  I held my head high and soldiered on, while getting MY double stack, .38, scoped,multi chamber comped ultra sooper dooper whizz bang Luke Skywalker special ready for the rigors of IPSC/USPSA/steel shooting.

During the years of shooting the 45 the frame cracked on each side in the rails. I had them welded and have had no further problems. The slide did not fare so well. The lower left rear of the slide behind the safety cut out broke off. As did the upper right rear of the slide where the Bomar cut was made.  The rigors of an accumulated 250,000 rds, 125,000 of them mine,plus the Bomar cut and 30 lpi serrations on the rear of the slide took their toll. As a race gun the 45 is retired. I don't know whether to clean it up and hang it on the wall, or rebuild the lower with a limited top end. The comped upper would still be a wall hanger.

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  I would hazard the guess that you got your money out of that one...........

And thanks for the information you provided on setting up that pistol.  Lots of folk who visit here have asked how to go about getting or setting up a race gun, or something that functions like that and now they have some idea of the incredible amount of effort and skill that goes into just the trigger work.   That information is going to help a lot of shooters. 

Interesting about your 3 chamber 4 port comp.  I love it when someone comes up with an idea a lot of the experts seem to disregard, especially when those ideas work. 

In addition, folks should now have some idea of the durability of the 1911.  I would say that frame and slide breakage after 250k round speaks volumes for durability. 

When you say you destroyed the barrel - was that the barrel with the bulge??? 

What's next???  Mikey.

[LarryL]

Hi Sharon,

After reading all that, I only have two things to say...


1. WOW!  You sure do know your 1911s.  I feel woefully inadequate now with my Collt GCNM and Kimber Tactical Pro.

2. Sure do wish I had met you when I was single!!

[SharonAnne]

Mikey, no, the bulged barrel was in my first 1911 that was a loaner. Oh, alright, the barrel snapped in two. The threads for the compensator were cut too deep and weakened the barrel. I was practicing and the comp went flying down range with half of the barrel.

Larry (blush) thank you. but think what would have happened. now I am old, fat and busted up.

[SharonAnne]

Mikey, what next? Well I could cover the building of my Para Ordnance 9x23 race gun, or,
          cover rebuilding the bottom half of my single stack 45 with later
          going over the fitting of the slide and new barrel on the same single stack 45.

if anyone is interested I guess it would be the 9x23 since it is done. the rest requires $ which is in short supply

[LarryL]

Aren't we all!!!

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  "now I am old, fat and busted up".  HAHAHAHAHA - join the crowd!

Question:  why did you thread the comp to the barrel and not mount one to the slide?  Were you concerned about the additional weight the comp would add to the slide during recoil and possible resultant damage to the frame??  Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

Mikey, I didn't, my gunsmith did.The threads had been cut too far back on the barrel. They were beyond the support of the cone.

  I am unaware of slide mounted compensators. All that I have seen are on the barrel, either on a cone to simulate a bull barrel or on a long barrel with a concealed bushing.  Back in the mid 80s Behlert Precision did experiment with frame mounted comps but I truly don't know anyone who made a slide mounted compensator.

[SharonAnne]

Larry, why do you feel inadequate with a Gold Cup and Tactical Pro? They are each fine firearms.

[LarryL]

Hi Sharon,

I was jesting, but hearing all the details of customization work and comp designs, etc. just confirmed what a novice I am at these things!  The Colt and Kimber are both fine firearms, and shoot better than I can. 

My attemts at customizing have all been done on the GC.  I tried a drop in comp on the GC at one point.  The comp was one of the ones that takes the place of the barrel bushing.  It did reduce flip, but was not as accurate as the original bushing.  Over time, the comp apparently was stretching a bit as it started to rub on the barrel.  I'm back to the original bushing now.  Someday maybe I will try one of the barrels with comp installed.  Seems like I saw I installed an extended ambi safety and funnel mag well, and like both.  Tried a full length guide rod and found no benefit, and annoyance when taking down, so I'm back to the original.  I too tried the grip mounted Aimpoint.   The Aimpoint definitely improved my shooting, but I did not like the grip at all.    It resides on my Ithaca slug gun now.  I have debated installing a mount on the GC slide for the Aimpoint, but I couldn't bring myself to have the slide drilled and tapped, so I left things alone and continue to shoot with the iron sights.  I'm just finding that my eyes are steadily declining, making iron sights harder and harder to use.  I already went to a scope on my SRH deer pistol. 

I've been shooting pistols for about 35 years, but I have not done any competition shooting.  I shoot just for the fun.  Same reason I tinker and modify.  Maybe one of these days I will get a 45 someone else has already decked out, but then I'd miss all the fun of doing it myself.

regards,

[SharonAnne]

I have not looked at a newer GC. do they still have the Elliason sight or Bomars now?

[LarryL]

Mine is a series 80, and had the Elliason sights on it when I purchased it used about 20 years ago.  I don't know when it was manufactured.  I removed the Elliason sights and had Milletts installed.  I've been told since then that this was a bad idea due to the way the Millett front sight is mounted to the slide.  However, I can see the red front and white outline rear Millett sights a heck of a lot better than the black on black Elliason originals.  Since it is a keeper, I guess if I can shoot better with it, that's all that matters!

I have been having some trigger trouble of late.  Occasionally, the trigger pull seems to jump way up.  At first, you might think it is jammed,  but everything appears to be fully into lockup.  If I then increase the trigger force significantly, the gun will fire.  I don't have a gauge, but I'm guessing it might be double the normal pull.  This happens perhaps a couple times in 100 rounds.  I have noticed the trigger pull is also not as crisp as it used to be, and has developed a slight creep before it breaks.  I suppose it is time for some work to be done.  I've never attempted trigger work before, and will likely defer to a gunsmith for this.  I'm not a huge shooter like some of you, but I do probably put 500-1000 rounds a year through it.  The gun has definitely had many many thousands of rounds through it over the last 20 years!

[SharonAnne]

You talked about putting an Aimpoint on it. Have you considered a frame mount instead of slide mounting? Chuck Heitt makes a great mount. You can get it through EGW (Evolution Gun Works).

Series 80, does it still have the firing pin safety installed?

[LarryL]

Hi Sharon,

I think I mis-stated what I meant.  I was thinking frame mount, but typed slide mount.  The frame mounts I have seen require multiple holes to be drilled and tapped into both sides of the frame.  I was hesitant to make that sort of an irreversable modification to my GC.  If I didn't like it, there would be no going back without replacing the frame?

Since it is a MK IV Series 80, I believe it does.  How would I be able to tell?  I know it is an early Series 80 as it has the collet style barrel bushing. I think they only used those from 1983 to 1988. 

[Stuart C.]

SharonAnne,
Great stuff!
With all that experience, what advice would you offer someone new to 1911s interested in getting into idpa and/or joining in on some pin shoots, home defense, nothing fancy?  Equipment, which gun and what options, loads.  Give us a 'if I were starting over again, this is what I would do.'  Please?
Thanks!

[myronman3]

after reading this post, you are definately in my cool book.   

[SharonAnne]

Larry, you can have the holes welded up, smoothed and refinished. With the Heitt you would need to use a Pachmayer thumb guard as the Heitt mount replaces the plunger tube.

re:series 80: remove the slide. does it have a plunger to the side/rear of the slide. There will be a lever sticking up on the right side of the frame.

Stuart and Myron:  NO PRESSURE!!!

[Broom Rider]

The new Colt Gold Cups are called Gold Cup Trophy, the stainless ones have a BoMar while the blued ones have the Elliason as now made by Champion with either the Champion or Elliason name on them.
I don't compete and merely shoot for my own enjoyment but I certainly do enjoy reading about it.
Thanks!!!

[SharonAnne]

Lynnie, thank you! I had no idea you read this thread.  It will take some preparation to follow through with Stuarts' request.  Thank you for the information on current production Gold Cups.

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  yes, Broom Rider posts here frequently, thankfully.  Her advice has always been great and a good number of other shooters have found her insights pretty helpful.  I'm glad she visits this site.  Have you ever seen pictures of her S&W collection?? 

I guess Stuart C didn't ask any easy questions but these are the types of questions lots of folk ask.  I would advise him to begin with the basics but I would also like to hear what your advice would be.  Thanks.  Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

No, I have not seen her collection. I would love to.

I am working on answering Stuart. However, just going into setting up a 1911 is turning into a how-to article rather than 'I say buy this,this and this'. I want to do it properly so people are educated in what to look for, how and why to pick options, why I made the decisions I did, why I regret what I regret. People will be free to use the advice any way they wish but the article WILL be copyrighted. I plan to submit it to several magazines. It will go over parts selection, fitting, frame modification, sights, and more than I can think of right now. I don't want folks to have to wait until it is done so I will submit each piece as it is finished. Like, how to select a grip safety, installation, frame contouring,etc.

As you can see, answering Stuarts question " what advice would you give to someone new to 1911s interested in getting into idpa and/or joining in some pin shoots, home defense, nothing fancy? Equipment,which gun and what options, loads. Give us a "If I was starting over,this is what I would do" Please".

Just covering the 1911 will be a lengthy article, it COULD be a book. To cover everything he asked may well become a book, thus my stating the content will be copyrighted. I could just say "buy/do this" but it would not educate anyone. I want people to know WHY decisions are made. These decisions will be very individual. Unless of course you all want so be SharonAnne clones with my exact pistol,load, holster, mag pouches, belt, shoes, glasses, etc. I think this is NOT what Stuart asked.

So please, bear with me.

[Stuart C.]

Sounds like a terrific article in the making.  I'll wait patiently.

[Broom Rider]

Thanks Mikey.
I don't look at it as a collection but more as all the stuff I bought or adopted that will never leave home again. (while I'm around at least)

[SharonAnne]

OK, here we go.
In answer to Stuart C. request "what advice would you give to someone new to 1911s interested in getting into idpa and/or joining in some pin shoots, home defense, nothing fancy? Equipment,which gun and what options, loads. Give us a 'If I was starting over,this is what I would do', Please?" No pressure right?!? 

This is a huge request. It will take time and research. I will be answering in segments, starting with setting up the 1911. I will NOT recommend one or two pistols that I like. Today we are blessed with many fine 1911s from a multitude of manufacturers.  From my experience I do NOT like the AMT Hardballer. This was 15 or more years ago but they had a BAD,very deserved, reputation, for galling. The frame and slide rails would literally peel up in many places. Some others brands have reps for soft steel that will not hold tolerances. Which I cannot recall right now.

If I had it to do again! What would I do? What would I not do? What would I change or do differently? Wow!

I think the most important thing to do with the 1911, for speed, accuracy, and shooting comfort is: make it fit your hand! Yes fit! Not an unobtanium trigger group, not trilithium powered night sights, not tricobalt A-zone seeking bullets or thermal imaging gyro-stabilized holosites, make it fit your hand!

The next big question is, How?   Parts- trigger, grip safety, mainspring housing, grips, grip tape. Metal working- checkering, stippling, frame contouring. Grip enhancers- stikum, rosin, creosote, Pro-Grip.  Pro-Grip, I know who makes it and what it is made of. I could tell you but then he would have to kill me.(did I say that right?).

What parts you use and what work you have done depends on you hand size.

A little background. By the L.L.Bean unisex glove size chart, I am between S-M in length and M-L in width, so, it looks like my hands are a Medium. I always thought my hands were big for a girl, until, one day my unit manager said something about having big hands. I said 'oh yeah right' and put up my hand for comparison. When she put her hand on mine I blurted out "OH MY GOD". Anyone who saw the 'Seinfeld' episode "Man Hands" knows what I saw. That poor woman. Now I think my hands are just fine. Relative to most shooters (men) I have small hands.

Now, because I told you the 'hands' story, I will start with a part that supposedly had to do with hand size.

The Mainspring Housing.
When I started shooting, the conventional wisdom (wisdom imparted by people with BIG hands) was, if you had small hands (like me) you needed a flat mainspring housing, so that is what I had installed. I noticed that the heel of my hand only touched the top 1/4 of the mainspring housing and that bit at an angle.
I tried handling a few pistols with arched mainspring housings and found I had almost full contact. I changed out the flat MSH (as I recall a checkered rubber Pachmyer) to an arched mainspring housing even before I had the fitted grip safety. If I recall correctly I traded for an arched, serrated aluminum housing, which I still have. Besides flat and arched we have angled and for a time there was a craze of having an arched MSH filed down and checkerd. Sort of in between flat and arched.

You can have your MSH smooth, serrated, stippled and checkered. In checkered you have to decide how many lines per inch (lpi) 20, 25, 30, 35, 40.

Now that we have talked about shape and surface finish, you have to consider material. They are available in polymer (plastic), rubber covered, titanium, aluminum and steel.

Decisions, decisions.

Don't buy what someone tells you to. Try them out. Go with what feels good. Get what fits/works for you! I went with arched for contact and improved grip.   

Your mileage may differ.

[williamlayton]

In a very limited experience way, I have found that often what you conceive in your mind will not work very well in the real world.
It is a place to begin, but, it is a never ending chase to find the ultimate.
It is also a chase that may depend on the day and time you bring the toy too the game--whether or not it works well for you that day.
Good excuse for having more toys.
Blessings

[SharonAnne]

   IF I HAD IT TO DO AGAIN 

   installment #2

  GRIP SAFETY

   In the Brownells' catalog (I will refer to it frequently) you will find 0.220" radius, 0.250" radius and compound radius grip safeties. This radius is relative to the thumb safety hole. Grip frame material is removed to fit the grip safety. This is how you get the high grip.

   Ask to try gripping different pistols. Check how they feel. Look at how the tang (that thing sticking out back) fits in the web of your hand. If local shooters don't have enough variety, try a gun shop or better yet a range that rents pistols. When you find one that feels good in your hand; rent it and try shooting it. If it still feels good then you are closer to selecting which grip safety you choose for your pistol.

   Please, try the 0.250" radius (like the Brown) and the compound radius (like the Wilson/Clark). They ARE different. Look in the Brownell catalog (there I go again). You will see that the fitting jigs look different. They fit differently and one may feel better to you than the other.  I didn't include the 0.220" because it is just like the 0.250" but is made specially for the Springfield frame.

   The contouring of the radius AND the descending curve fit of the frame/grip safety is very important to your grip comfort and control. If the grip safety fits too deeply into the frame the frame edges will cut into your hand and need contouring.

   Now you will need to decide whether to speed bump or not to speed bump. What I call a 'speed bump' is called by many names. Ed Brown calls his "memory grooves", Wilson calls it a "raised pad", Smith & Alexanders' is  a "palm swell". Kings just calls it a "pad".  To STI it is a "raised locater pad"and to Les Baer it is a "raised contact pad".  Some have grooves, some smooth, others are checkered.  What it  is is this, a raised area at the bottom of the grip safety to help insure the grip safety is depressed enough to disengage the safety and allow the pistol to fire.  Speed bump.

   Next you will need to select what material your grip safety is made of. Pachmayr makes a rubber covered drop in grip safety. It looks like the high ride safeties but it puts your hand lower than it first appears, though it does a good job of protecting the soft web of your hand. Most manufacturers of grip safeties use steel, stainless and blued. Caspian pretty much is a one stop shop for grip safeties. They make 0.250" (Brown style) and compound radius (Wilson/Clark style) grip safeties. With and without speed bumps. To add to the mix you can have either style in blued steel, stainless steel, aluminum and unobtanium, excuse me, titanium. Yes ultra-light high tech fans, more titanium.

   As I wrote in segment #1, I chose an arched mainspring housing and had it checkered for better grip. My second 1911/ .45 grip safety did not have the 'speed bump'. Speed bumps were not invented then. I had the bottom half of the grip safety stippled for better grip. It looks cool too with the stippling over the checkering.

   Let us recap.  Brown (0.250" radius) or Wilson/Clark (compound radius) 2x.  Speed bump or not 2x2.  Smooth, grooved, checkered 2x2x3. Material: blued steed, stainless steed, aluminum, titanium 2x2x3x4=48.  48 possibilities and that leaves out the brand names. Now add in the mainspring housing: flat,arched, angled 3x. Smooth, serrated, checkered,stippled 3x4.   Material: blued steel, stainless steel, aluminum, titanium 3x4x4=48. Again with 48.

 So 48x48=2,304 possible  combinations with 2 parts.

 No wonder I get headaches.

 And new shooters are bewildered.

[Broom Rider]

.............and here I thought I was the only person calling it a speed bump.

[SharonAnne]

   (hugging my sister shooter)

[SharonAnne]

 I just realized I left out one material for the mainspring housings when I ran the numbers. I left out composite. So the numbers would be 3x4x5=60  60x48= 2,880 combinations,  for 2 parts.    Sheeesh!!!