My Second .45/ IF I WAS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN

[williamlayton]

I must admit a certain amount of secret love for SA, If you have seen her picture you would know that she is as georgous as she it intelligent.
I won't take that part of the conversation any further---
I don't have as much of a need/desire/want for a magwell but they can look very good---sometmes, butt ugly (let me put one on for you  ). For the games they are a must.
Blessings

[1911crazy]

Great post, smart women and they know there 1911's what more can we ask for n this forum.  After purchasing every DVD om "how to" fix and get the 1911 reliable i thought i was hot stuff after changing the barrel and barrel bushing on my norinco.  You gals take the 1911 to a new level beyond me.  Congrats. 1911czy

[SharonAnne]

Hi guys. Mikey, I was not away all that time from embarrassment. Life gets complicated. I am not sure what all happened when. I now have a Spinal Cord Stimulator. It sends a low voltage electric current into my spinal cord that blocks pain signals. Once I got it sorted out it has worked very well. It has greatly reduced my leg pain.

I just completed a series of injections into my spine that have greatly reduced my abdominal pain. One day last week, when I woke I felt strange.  I lay there assessing what I was feeling. What was so strange was, I had no pain. It had been so long since I was pain free that I forgot what it felt like. The feeling was short lived but wonderful.

Oh yes, then there was the time I crashed my bicycle. One woman said she thought I was dead. Actually I lay still and assessed my condition before I tried to sit up. Two big lads assisted me to a sitting position then to standing and they walked me over to the grass and shade. Right about then EMS arrived. They checked me over and I declined transport to an ER.  My room mate arrived and loaded the bike, and me and away to home we went.

A week later I was into the ER with a lovely case of cellulitis. My left leg was swollen, red and hot. A few days on IV antibiotics then home on orals.

Oh and then there was the time I fell asleep while standing, (yes,really). I hit my head on the corner of a stucco wall, split my head open and had to go to the ER for stitches. They saw "dark thickening" under my skull and thought I had a subdural hematoma so I was kept overnight to be evaluated. The Neuro-Surgeon said he thought it was just a thicker area of the DuraMater and not a hematoma so no "brain surgery" happy day.
When I had the sutures  removed at my PCP office the Dr. said "what amateur did this?". Three of the five sutures had hair trapped in them. So, 5 out, 5 in, come back in a week, again.
I now have a lovely scar about 2.5 inches long, with a corresponding dent in my skull.

My goal for 2012 is no hospitalizations. So far, so good.

My younger Sister had surgery for ovarian cancer with metastisis to the uterus and lymph nodes. She has also undergone radiation and chemo. In solidarity I buzzed my head. Not shaved but as short as the Wahl clipper could cut.  Looks odd and feels the same.

Oh I got hit with an attack virus that killed my computer. I had to get a new computer. My e-mail is GONE. I opened it in the beginning and never closed it. I do not remember my password, the answers to the verification questions or the e-mail addresses of recent sent mail or the names or topic lines of recent received mail. Sooooo I have a new e-mail address. 

sharonanne9x23@hotmail.com   

I am still trying to recover my mail but I am not optimistic.

I will try to get something written on the top end soon.  It is even more involved than the receiver.

Later

Blessed Be

SharonAnne                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  'pologize for taking so long to get back atcha but geez, I had to go through this last note of yours a bunch of times to figure out where to begin but, a couple of things up front::::  (1) between William Laytons secret admission and your falling asleep on your feet I think there is trouble brewing.   (2) Stay the hay off your bicycle.  I was generally upset to learn that you had crashed yourself whilst peddlin' yor butt around town but at least there is no brain surgery necessary (for you - for William Layton, maybe).  Say, was there some older guy ridin' around in a new Mustang convertable when ya crashed up?  He has that secret admiration for ya, ya know....
I aplaud your goal for 2012 to stay out of the hospital, and send prayers for your sister.  Wahl makes good clippers.
Hey - techno question fer ya:  what is the difference in twist rate for the 9x23 and the 38 Super??  Does either shoot cast better??

[AtlLaw]

I am soooooo glad to see you back SharonAnne!      And your post was on my birthday!  You're present to me!   
 
But I echo Mikey's concerns...     Take care of yourself...   

[SharonAnne]

Oooohkaay! It has been a long time coming.

THE 1911 TOP END

The top end of the 1911/1911A1 consists of the slide, barrel. barrel bushing, bushing plug, recoil spring, spring guide, barrel link, link pin, extractor, firing pin, firing pin spring, firing pin retainer, front sight and rear sight. Pretty basic. RIIIIIGHT!

The Slide

The slide seems pretty basic, right? Not so much. We have two common materials, carbon steel and stainless steel.

Then we have the rather exotic Damascus steel. Damascus steel is made by folding steel sheet over, heating and hammering until the two pieces become one, then repeat. If you fold the steel 10 times you get 1024 layers; fold 15 times and you get 32,768; and fold it 20 times and you have an amazing 1,048,576 layers. Yes that is over one million layers. Supposedly the finest Samurai swords were folded 20 times. If you ever get a chance to see a TV special on the making of Samurai swords watch it. It is fascinating!

However I digress. Damascus steel for slides, and frames, as far as I know, is for no other reason than its' appearance since it is quite striking and unique.

For a time Infinity offered an aluminum slide but it was proprietary since it was only available in one pistol and that had to be built by SVI/Infinity. You could not buy it and have your pistolsmith use it.

With the 2 slide materials we then look at slide length. Just among 3 manufacturers I found these lengths: 3", 3.5", 3.9", 4", 4.15", 4.25", 4.3", 4.5", 5", 5.1", and finally 6". Now we have 2 materials, carbon and stainless steels, and 11 lengths; 22 variations.


Next we will look at the STOCK slide serrations from a few manufacturers. Colt gives us vertical serrations on the 1911A1. They are V shaped but the V has a 90 degree front edge with what appears to be a 45 degree back edge. This gives a more solid grip when pulling back and is easier to slide your fingers forward to obtain the desired location. The Gold Cup has the same shape serrations but tilts the serration with the top closer to the muzzle. Springfield gives us square notch serrations, some vertical and some slanted forward. The serrations are wide with narrow outer edges. STI gives us square notches with inner and outer parts of the same width. Again, some vertical and some forward slant. Then we add in front serrations or not.

With only 3 manufacturers we have 12 variations on slide serrations. When we look at the artistic variations they look to be limited by only what one can do with metal.

22 variations of material and length times 12 variations of side serrations and we get 264 possible variations of only 3 things.


Sticking with the slide we move to the sights. John Moses, in spite of his design genius, equipped the 1911 with woefully inadequate sights. The front is barely there. The rear is much the same only sideways with a small notch in it.

Sights come in a plethora of heights, widths, shapes, colors and insert materials. Bullseye shooters prefer a front sight that is nice and tall, squared off, black and usually vertical. It is called a Patridge sight. Yes Patridge, not Partridge.

Actually I want you to go to Wickipedia and ask for "Iron Sight". It has an excellent article on open sights. It makes a few wrong assumptions about IPSC and IDPA shooters but I am sure you will know what they are.

Next I refer you to   goshen-hexsite.com    Click on the "Reviews and Feedback".  Scroll down to the article by Michael Conti - Police Pistolcraft magazine. It too has some great information on iron sights starting with the Patridge. It ends with a glowing report on the Hexsite but it is the other material I found fascinating.

Front sights come in a plethora of heights, widths, inserts, colors and more. In the Dawson Precision catalog I found 13 variations of their "black serrated front sights". Then 30 variations of their "optic inserted" front sights. Oh, times 2, red or green.  They then add 7 variations of height/width for their "tritium inserted front sights. So we find 13 + (30 x 2) + 7 = 80 variations of "Dawson Precision" front sights.

This brings us to 264 X 80 = 21,120 combinations.

We have only looked at slide material, lengths, serrations from 3 manufacturers, and front sights from one manufacturer. In the first part on the frame we had 552,960 combinations of 3 parts. Here we have 21,120 variations on 2 parts, slide and front sights. Which brings us to 116,785,150 combinations. Is it any wonder that people get confused about which combination they want. Over 116 Million combos, Yikes! Of course that ignores the trigger/hammer group and mag wells.

That is it for now.

To answer Mikeys question. There is no difference in twist rates for 38 Super and 9x23. Usually the only difference is how the chamber is cut, 38 Super or 9x23. I suppose some barrel makers do cut their 38 supers to .357" but I think the majority use the 0.355" bore for both the 38 Super and the 9x23 and the 9x19 for that matter.

Scheuman makes his 0.355" barrels in 1:16", 1:24" and 1:32" twists. The 1:24 is only available in his AET (Accuracy Enhanced Technology) barrels. The 1:16" and 1:32" twists are available in his "Classic" and heavy barrels. You really should go to the Scheuman web page and read what he has to say on barrel twists, very informative.

I do not know which shoots cast bullets better. I am pretty sure it is a matter of bullet hardness and then cartridge load. I use Berrys plated hard cast bullets in my 9x23 and with USPSA Major loads I consistently hit a 6" steel circle at 100yds off the bench. By consistent I mean 7-8 out of 10 shots. Apparently I drew some attention from the guys at the range. I could hear the closer guys saying "hit" and "oh darn she missed one". A Range Officer came down to see what I was shooting. With the Range Officer calling my hits I did hit a 24" square steel at 300yds. I hit it on the 4 shot with the RO calling how low my shots were. I think sighted in for 25yds I was about 8' low at 300yds. He just shook his head and said "damndest thing I have ever seen". 

I was quite proud.

[williamlayton]

I love your reads.
Blessings

[SharonAnne]

Thank you William.

Have you looked at any of the 3 web pages that I suggested? If so which and what did you think?

And to all who have expressed concern for my well being, I have continued to evade hospitalizations.

[williamlayton]

At various times---+---some others that i found to perk my interest.
I toyed with Damascus thoughts for several years---gave in to steel and engraveing (which never has happened---but that is off topic).
Parts are the intreguing (sp) part of the whole program for me. I, long ago, forgot about custom/exotic/semi-custom slides and frames---electing to have Colt or other reputable bases used and tuned or refined.
Parts are something that just have a magical hold on my thoughts and have used some from a variety of folks who do this kind of thing. I don't know that of the four or five thah have been built for me, any are any better than my Sigs----but it is fun to know what are in them and the fitting that was done for the build.
About a year ago or so I got into some revolvers and have had various things done to several.
I digress----SVI has a couple of guns I have designed on their web which, as to this point, have not been ordered. SVI and STI are good but I lean towards STI for some strange reasoning.
Wilson parts are good parts--and my gunsmith really likes them.
Fun reads and good conversation.
Take good care of yourself---it is the only yourownself you have.
Blessings

[1911crazy]

Does my 3 herneated discs in my back could as busted up?  I been like this for over 25 years and never realized it but thats another story.
If i was going for another 1911???   Well 4 new ones crank me up.  A thompson custom 1911a1 in stainless 45acp w/5" barrel,  a colt delta elite in 10mm in s/s,  a rockiland armory in 45acp in nickel finish 5" barrel,   a colt goverment model 70 in 45acp 5w/5" barrel in nickel.

[SharonAnne]

hi Craz. yes I think 3 herniated discs count. Not knowing about it for 25 years is a different form of disability

[1911crazy]

hi Craz. yes I think 3 herniated discs count. Not knowing about it for 25 years is a different form of disability

I'm on pain meds for my legs and it hid the pain in my back till it got worse recently.
I realize you gals / guys are a talking builds here.  I get that 1,000yd stare from my local gun dealers everytime i ask if they can get me a new 1911 frame for my build progect.  It seems like no one wants to be bothered.  I have the slide assembly with all the parts for it as a kit,  and the lower frame parts but i need a frame. I just want to do a cheap low budget 1911 basic build with no bells, no whistles and no bull.  Its on the back burner for now. Little by little i been purchasing all the 1911 tools and fixtures anyway.

[SharonAnne]

Hi Craz. Sorry about your probs. I understand one condition hiding another.

Re: ordering a frame. What about ordering a frame from Brownells and see if they have a local FFL that takes such deliveries? Otherwise, check at local gun clubs to see if a member has an FFL they will use it to take delivery. I would be very surprised that there would be no one who could help.

At our local clubs there are a few FFLs that take deliveries of guns and frames won in tournaments. I bet your club(s) have the same. I think the going rate to take an FFL delivery is $25.00

OR, maybe someone local has won a frame they have no use for and wish to sell.

[Reverend Recoil]

 SharonAnne, I am active in CMP service rifle competition. If it were not for a neck fusion surgery this I would have earned my Distinguished Rifleman' Badge this year. I am recovering well and expect to leg out by Camp Perry 2013.
 I have been thinking about becoming double distinguished with the CMP service pistol. The Beretta M9 pistol is out because only the AMU knows how to build them properly.  So that leaves me with a plain CMP legal M1911A1 pistol.  My question is: should I buy one Les Bear’s CMP Hardballer or should I build a lower grade pistol myself and start competing and upgrade as I progress?  Some of the features I would consider sending it out for upgrade would be; better sights, trigger fit, and barrel/slide/bushing fit.  It seems like a fun project.  I have an old High Standard Supermatic Citation that will hold the X-ring at 50yd.  Now if I could only do that myself.  At 52 years of age it will be quite a challenge.  Let me know what you think.
 

[SharonAnne]

Reverend Recoil. I had to do some research. I have never participated in CMP pistol.  Given that I could not find ONE 1911 offered by any major manufacturer that was CMP legal, I would suggest that, if you can afford it, you buy the Les Baer CMP Hardballer. The one thing that every pistol that might be equipped adequately for CMP Pistol had that is not allowed is a beavertail grip safety.
 
 It is allowed to remove the beavertail and replace it with an original style grip safety. The problem is when a beavertail grip safety is installed some frame material is removed. This is significant because when you remove this material you have less frame to absorb recoil. The original grip safety is narrow and has sharp corners that will cut into the web of the hand. I have had this happen to me. That is why we get a beavertail grip safety installed. We do not want to hurt and bleed.
 
 With the frame in its original condition there is more material to absorb recoil. Once you have a beavertail you would have to weld up the frame to its original shape.
 
 With all that said, buying a less expensive pistol then having it worked on winds up with you paying for parts twice. I really do not know how much accuracy is gained by replacing an original barrel. When all of the other accurizing work is done I believe the barrel contributes little. I am prepared to be proven wrong.
 
 Les Baers' CMP Hardballer is guaranteed to shoot 10 ring at 50 yds. That is 3" for 10 rounds. For just $295 more he will up that to 1.5" at 50 yards for 10 rounds.  The 10 rounds is significant because that is how many rounds you fire in a string. Most top line Smiths claim 1.5" at 25 yards and that is usually for 3 or 5 rounds.
 
 Get the LB Hardballer with the 1.5" guarantee and you know that you have the best . It is what I call a "no excuses" pistol. You will know that whatever you see on paper is YOU, not the pistol. 

You also know that whatever improvement you see is YOU since the pistol already has it all. If you bought a 'lesser' pistol and had it worked on you would not know if it was the change in the pistol or your improved shooting from your proper practice.

I know I am repeating myself but , get the Les Baer CMP Hardballer with 1.5" guarantee. Try it. You'll like it.
 

[Reverend Recoil]

SharonAnne, thank you for your reply.  I think you are right in starting the game with the right CMP service pistol.  Reliable feedback and equipment trust is very much needed in shooting improvement.  I started service rifle competion with a rifle that could hold the X-ring at 600yd.  I went from Sharpshooter to Master classification in three years.  That was firing enough ammo to burn out four barrels during that time as well.  As soon as I get my DR badge I will consider a new pistol.  I wish there were more shops that could produce a good CMP service pistol.  Les needs some competition.
I have fired the Les Baer CMP pistol and it will hold the 50yd X-ring.  It is not much of a gun to look at.  All the tricks are internal.  Its kind of like NASCAR.  It looks stock but is not. My CMP AR15 rifle looks just like a million others but it shoots so very well.
If you need something to add to your bucket list, consider going to Camp Perry during CMP pistol week and shoot service pistol some time.  There are ways of borrowing a good pistol from the AMU or Marines.  There you will find a tradition of 100 years of shooting exellence and competitive glory.  Best of all, its only in America.
http://www.odcmp.com/

[bulletstuffer]

SharonAnne,


What a read!  You remind me of my Wonderful Wife.  The brain power is amazing to me!  My wife was sitting in the car one day and I was standing outside listening to her rattle off a huge list of things that she needed to get done.  When she was finished I said dang, it must be a real drag being that smart sometimes remembering all those things    I'm so thankful she puts up with me


I just started shooting uspsa last year in the production division and wish I found out about it 30 years ago.  Might try single stack soon so this was very helpful.  I am extremely impressed by your knowledge and willingness to share.    About all I can do load em up and keep pulling the trigger which makes me so happy    My wife came to one of the matches and I hope she will join uspsa next year.  She is a great shot so I always try to stay on her good side


Sorry to hear about your physical troubles    Isn't it amazing what each passing decade does to us.  Thanks again and wishing you the best!


Sincerely,


Bulletstuffer

[SharonAnne]

Reverend Recoil. I did not say Les was the only 'smith that could build a first rate CMP pistol. I said he was the only one that LISTED one in his catalog. Don Golemboski of Kodiac Custom has had many pistols on the cover of American Handgunner. I know he can build ANYTHING.  Marty at Accuracy Speaks in Mesa, AZ is excellent. Just because they do not have a web site or catalog does not mean they cannot build a first rate gun.
 
 A couple that shot with me in Michigan had over 10 Les Baer pistols and loved every one of them. They could not speak highly enough about his ability or how easy he was to work with. I did shoot a couple of them and they were smooth and very accurate. I saw him interviewed on line and he sure came across as just Joe Average. I know I would not hesitate to buy a firearm he built.
 
 I do know from personal experience that George Smith of EGW can build anything associated with the 1911 type pistol. I had him build a 3 chamber .45acp comp for me. It was back when he had only built double chamber comps. He tried to talk me out of the triple chamber since it was believed that a 45 did not make enough pressure to run one. After trying it in his 'boom room' he then had everyone in the shop try it. They were all amazed and he immediately went to triple chamber comps for the .38 Super. He will now build up to a 6 chamber comp with 9 ports. Again, one of the members that shot with me back in Michigan had George build a Caspian wide body in 9X21 with a 3 chamber comp. It was the softest recoiling pistol I have ever shot.
 
 I have no doubt any of these fine Gunsmiths can build a first rate CMP hardballer for you. I do know that Les is the only one who has put his 1.5" 10 rd 50yd group in writing. Perhaps if you ask, one or more of the others will also.



bulletstuffer, considering how you speak of your wife, I am flattered. I think that it would be great if your wife joined you shooting USPSA matches. I suggest these web pages to her: Women of USPSA.com       Babes with bullets.com    Her Handgun.com

They are all run by some of the finest women you will ever meet. I had the privilege to be squadded with several of them at the 2000 USPSA Championship/IPSC Hemisphere Championship. It was the highlight of my shooting career. They are awesome to be around. She will not be disappointed.


 
 
 

[SharonAnne]

for the record. I had ZERO hospitalizations in 2012. Hip hip and HOORAY!!! Now onward and no hospitalizations in 2013!

[williamlayton]

Sharon
I think you need a hospital with a range---at least, if you are laid up you could shoot prone. 
Not to make light of such serious disabilities as you have. I pray that the Lord takes the body to a better disposition this year.
I have never even thought about comps for a .45---I think I was under the influence of more old-line thinking. That said, I have never shot games so my thinking is much different for my guns.
I have spent hours over on the SVI sight, playing with thoughts---many of which were not good thoughts---but the point is, they put a lot of information at your disposal.
Far above my talents.
Get well, you hear!
Blessings   

[SharonAnne]

Thank you William 

I love the SVI site. I have designs on a 6" 460 Rowland. It would have the the ribbed barrel with the front sight dovetailed in. Tritium sights front and rear. I would get the metal grip, probably in stainless for the weight to handle the recoil of the mighty 460.

SVI is a great dream site.

[SharonAnne]

I think I have exhausted material on the basic 1911. I will move my 4.25" 45 1911 remarks here.

I bought an ATI/American Tactical Inc. 4.25"/1911/ .45ACP from Buds Gun Shop. With insurance it came to just under $425. It cost me $20 for the FFL transfer fee. So I have less than $450 in a very nice Commander size pistol.  It came with a nicely installed beavertail grip safety. The sights are basic cross slot rear with a square notch. Front sight is a basic Patridge with tenon mount. The thumb safety is what passes for standard on GI 1911s. 

The trigger pull was over 6#. I thought the safety was on at first. I am so accustomed to 2-2.5# triggers I am spoiled.  With the hammer/sear group removed the trigger had complete free play. I tried adjusting the original leaf spring but got nowhere.

I made some changes. I replaced the stock hammer strut with an EGW titanium one. That was a chore since I had to narrow the EGW strut 0.005" per side, with a Dremel. Not so easy. The steel strut weighed 66gr and the titanium strut weights 20gr. Then I replaced the mainspring with a Silicon-chrome spring of 17#. On the Brownells site there is an article by noted pistolsmith Jack Weigand. He uses an 18# spring in his 2.5# trigger job so I am not far off. The new mainspring is topped off with an EGW titanium cap. The last change was to install a Cylinder & Slide 'light' leaf spring straight up. I lubricated everything with Gunbutter grease on the frame and slide rails, barrel and slide locking lugs, barrel legs, barrel/bushing and on the hammer hooks. Gunbutter oil went everywhere else that gets oil.

These changes brought the trigger pull down to 4 1/2-4 7/8#. It remains crisp with minimal takeup and slight overtravel. The trigger does not have a stop screw. After several hundred dry fire cycles the pull is now 4-4 1/2#, right where I want it. If, after more use the pull gets lighter I will 'tweak' the proper leaves of the 3 blade leaf spring to bring it back up to just over 4#.

The fit of the slide and frame are tight with just the slightest discernable movement. Compared to my old competition 1911/45 this new one is tight as vault door closing.

There are no improper tool marks anywhere. ATI is a small manufacturer in the Fillipeens er Pillifeens um Phillipines. Oh I give up on the spelling.

I did install an original 1911 not 1911A1 thumb safety just because I like the looks better than the thin blade safety it came with. The safety does its job with one problem. If I try to keep the pad of my thumb on the safety lever I open my grip and do not deactivate the grip safety. When I push my thumb forward, where it would sit on an extended thumb safety, the lever sits just behind the first thumb joint. This might not be a problem for most, but for me it sits on a calcification from breaking my thumb when I was in my late teens. This position is painful. I have an extended ambi safety set but it does not fit. The fitting of a thumb safety is not in my skill set so I will seek the assistance of a professional pistolsmith.

[SharonAnne]

I was wrong about the top end. I neglected the rear sight, extractor, firing pin and firing pin stop. Shame upon me and 30 lashes with a limp noodle as Ann Landers used to say. Most of you are too young to know who she was.

Rear sights. We have two basic kinds, fixed and adjustable.

Fixed.  We have 3 basic fixed sights, those that fit the stock slot, the Heinie cut and the Novak cut. You can find some very nice rear sights that fit the stock slot. Heights and notch widths and depths vary. You will have to look at some. The same goes for the Heinie/Novak sights. They are similar but not identical and require different cuts in the slide. Once you commit to one you are stuck with it unless you want to buy a new slide. You are hardly stuck though with Heinie or Novak sights. You can have plain black,white dot, colored fiber optic and Tritium night sights. Some even have serrations on the sides to aid in gripping for racking the slide. Very cool.

More to come.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

[williamlayton]

More and More I am likeing fixed sights---for a lot of reasons.
Blessings

[SharonAnne]

I went back to the original thumb safety on my 'commander'. It fits better, 'clicks' on and off more positively and is more comfortable with my 'remodeled' thumb.