California supreme court rules on gay rights

[DalesCarpentry]

GRAYBEARD. I want to thank you for finally allowing this discussion. This subject has come up several times over the years and you quashed it quickly. I'm glad you finally allowed this discussion. I always felt that we could discuss this in a civil, adult manner, and I believe we have. I've learned things about some folks here that surprised me, others I expected. I may post more, I may not, not a lot left to say for me. I'm going to post a list of Bible references below, look em up guys if you have a Bible, I'm sure some don't.

1 Kings ch 22, verse 46
Joshua Ch 10 verse 13
Corinthians ch 6, verse 9
Romans ch 1 verses 26-27-28
Leviticus ch18, vs 22
Leviticus ch 20 vs13
Ephesians ch5 vs 12
Deuteronomy ch 22 vs 5
deuteronomy ch23 vs 18 & 18.
11 Kings ch 23 vs 7.

This should mean something to those who are Christians, the rest of you it won't matter to. POWDERMAN. 

Ahhhhh, and here comes Powderman, storming in with bible verses for us to read and live by.  Of course, if we're going to live strictly according to the bible, we can't forget about these other verses!

For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

 21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

16And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

 17Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.

 18For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,

 19Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,

 20Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

 21No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

 22He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.

 23Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them.

 24And Moses told it unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel.

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

The point is, when you pick and choose which parts of the bible to force down other people's throat, you ought to take a real hard look at the other verses of the bible, and make sure you're living your life in accordance with the book you're preaching from.  Picking which ones are convenient and ignoring those which are not is the height of hypocrisy.

Sounds like me and everyone I know are going to HELL then. Dale

[Hooker]

I still wonder, if someone is not willing to be lead, when does a loving Christian step out of the way and let God handle it?

Tallyho sometimes God way of handling things is by using people. Christians should strive in all things to be Christ like. God has never quit on us, so in our striving to be Christ like should we not push on also. We should put all things in God's hands, but that in no way should compel us to be idle in the effort.

beemanbeme , i feel if i have to tell someone i believe in God i must not be doing something right .

Shootall you are correct We should be known by our fruits as the Bible says. But also we should confess our belief in God before all men.

  I do have a question: If marriage is a gift of God, does this mean the pairs of heathens in the darker reaches of the world and the pairs of godless, sub-human mooslims, and the pairs of brown Indians of India and the Pakistanis and all of the other pairs of godless, sub-human people of the world that don't worship the Christian God are not married? 
If a pair of Hindus, living in the USA, file a joint income tax return are they breaking the law?  1. because the Christian God did not okay their union and, 2. the gov.ment hasn't any right to okay their union?  Are Christian folks that are married by a JP married or not married. 

Beemanbeme I'm provably not qualified to answer this,but I will try.
Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman who love each other and God. It is of little concern how or by whom the ceremony is perform, as long as it is righteous before God. A marriage that is an act of sin is not righteous therefore not sanctified by God. I know that there is much more to this, But there is my limit of knowledge on the subject.

Pat

[Graybeard]

Sounds like me and everyone I know are going to HELL then. Dale

Wouldn't surprise me. The Bible tells us that not many will make it to Heaven that many will seek the way but few will find it.

This thread is in the wind down stage and seems to be falling apart. I will end it most likely Sunday night unless it continues to deteriorate in which case it might end at any moment. Keep it civil and it can go on for a couple more days.

[powderman]

Christians are supposed to be wary of sin and warn others. I have done that, my conscience is clear. I've learned that there aren't as many Christians here as I'd thought there were. For some of you, the balls in your court now, play it carefully, and wisely. Goodnight. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

Okay, pat, I'm with you. I guess my question, in part, and this is admittedly a bit off topic, is this God you're speaking of, does he have to be lily white and look like Charlton Heston and hate Moolims and Hindus and other sub-humans? Or can he be dark brown or even black as long as he is recognized by his devotees as the supreme being, The Creator, by whatever name. You know, a rose is a rose sort of thing?

IG, there you go, pretending to the high road again.  Seems I remember someone had posted asking for decent, tolerant treatment for the deviants and your response was something to the effect of ... "enjoy the lifestyle you've chosen...."  I thought it was a pretty snotty, uncalled for remark.  Proving to me that you and P man were really no different.  Considering the number of pedophiles and homosexuals and sexual predators that have been turned out of late from amongst the preachers and priest, one would think you folks would be a little circumspect before you started throwing stones in your glass houses.   But, of course, that's not YOUR bunch of Christians, right?

[Hooker]

Sounds like me and everyone I know are going to HELL then. Dale

Dale there is still hope in grace, for by grace we are saved.
I don't usually through around Bible verses but this one fill my heart with great cheer John 3:17 .

Pat

[Hooker]

Beemanbeme No one knows what God looks like or what color he is. Many assimilate him with pure white because that is a color that is thought of when most think of some thing that is clean and without blemish. George Strait has a song out that fairly well describes what God looks like IMHO http://www.songlyrics.com/song-lyrics/George_Strait/Miscellaneous/I_Saw_God_Today/269147.html
The God I worship has no hate in him for anyone.

Pat

[beemanbeme]

Beers, I believe I'll go with you.  I can't sing worth a flip anyway.  P man, I certainly appreciate that you have done your best.  That's all a bull elephant can do.  Or a piss ant.  

Dale, if you're right, sounds like we'll have a gay ole time.... (pun intended)

[kevthebassman]

Sounds like me and everyone I know are going to HELL then. Dale

According to the "Good Book" I'll likely be right there with you.  If the Lord is the type of guy who would put a person on this earth as a homosexual then damn them for it, or the kind of guy who would banish the crippled from his temple, or demand someone be put to death because they let passion get the best of them, then he can have his Heaven all to himself for all I care.  Doesn't sound like anyone I'd willingly associate with.

Now, if it is as I suspect, and the "Good Book," written entirely by men, is way, WAAAAY off-base, and God is one who truly understands that people worship him in different ways, are skeptical of that which they cannot see, and reject the notion that you've got to read a certain book or you're banished to Hell for eternal damnation, then He sounds like the kind of guy I wouldn't mind spending eternity with.

[ironglow]

  I believe GB is correct in deciding to end this thread, it has descended from the sublime to the ridiculous. the only real reasoning is from folks that have tried
  sincerely I believe, to bridge the gap between cognitive reasoning and sloganeering & ridicule.
     Just to set the record straight and dispel some "open minded" (talk about oxymorons !) myths..God need not be white, nor of any definable description
   you may conjure up; remember..you "open minded" types are the ones that herein have tried to paint Him into some type picture.."rots of ruck !"..LOL
       Preachers and any other Christian that defy God's stated will, must repent,seek forgiveness and seek to mold their lives to God's will  Anyone that indulges
   in a sin that is considered an abomination and does it without repentance and/or correction...is in desperate straights !
 
   Still..if we are willing to walk; God is not nearly so displeased if we trip ! 

    Dale, if only you realized how silly you look, trying to use the scriptures to argue against men that  have studied them for decades, better quit while you're ahead !
   
    Crusty..It is a rare day when anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of hermeneutics makes so many blunders..trying to employ the written WORD...
    but that is what happens when someone filled with "self' try to "use" God's word instead of listening to it !
         To those here who have chosen to attempt to mock God's word.."God will not be mocked" ( Galatians 6:7)..."payday someday" !
        Enjoy your mockery while you can..don't come to us someday and say;.."you never told me !"..

   Beeman;
         You say I was "snotty" , telling someone to enjoy the lifestyle they have chosen..I could have added "to defend' ..but in a sense that person has chosen  to
   defend the "gay" over "Biblical" the lifestyle others here have chosen. If you think the suggestion that some here have chosen gay as opposed to Biblical, why do
   you consider it "snotty" if that life style is acceptable..shouldn't bother you any !
  On the other hand, if you do indeed think there is something abnormal or twisted about homosexualism, why do you want to force it into a basically Christian format;
   why is not a "civil commitment ceremony" adequate..just to keep the peace ?
   
         Beeman; don't heap coals on me , when you have just boasted to Dale how you guys may have a "gay old time" !...YeeHaw..enjoy !

        GB, do the dignity of your forum a favor, shut this thread down..

[powderman]

IRONGLOW, HOOKER. Good posts, I agree. This has turned into a Christian bashing thread, instead of an INFORMED opinion thread. You anti Christians will be real shocked some day. If we are wrong, we have lost nothing. You anti Christians on the other hand, will have lost it all. Yes, this thread is dead. IG, BILLY, the link of my grandaughter is updated every week, you can check on her progress, another operation, but OK. Thanks for the prayers. POWDERMAN. 

[DalesCarpentry]

Ironglow. You must have me confused with someone else. You better go back and read through. I have never in my life in any conversation used a Bible Quote. Dale

[billy_56081]

  I myself will never consider homosexuals as anything but a mental illness and a perversion. The claiming of homosexuality in nature is silly, I mean we have all seen a male dog, they will couple with anything that lets them. That does not make them genetically programmed to be that way it is just the dumb animal in them that has no control over their impulses. As was said earlier what is next? Will other perversions soon be considered "genetic" and considered normal? I'm sure NAMBLA is rooting for this to become accepted in America and then they can move forward to the next step. This agenda agenda is no different than the liberals agenga on Gun control, they are not going for it all in one step, just chipping away a little tiny bit at a time.

[BBF]

 After reading some of the Old Testament quotes here I must say it would be a load to be a religious Jew these days.

[Beers]

Billy, Are you kidding!? Are you really trying to paint tolerance of homosexuals as being a step away from acceptance of pedophilia? You really think they have a choice? Lets put it this way... You know your own preferences, say you wanted to change them? How easy would that be? My guess is that I'd be as easy for a queer to get excited about girls as it would be for you to choose to suddenly be attracted to men.

Whether it's genetic or not, I can't say for sure. No one else really knows either. But that's irrelevant, because it's not really a choice. Do you remember a point in your life when you decided what turns you on? Me neither... I don't believe the pedo's have much choice either,(In thier preferences anyway. Their actions are an entirely different matter.) but if they sure as hell better stay in jail as far as I'm concerned. Note the extremely high recidivism rate among child molesters released from prison.

The extremely huge difference is that when a same sex couple enjoy themselves in the bedroom, no one is harmed. There are no "victims" in a consenting homosexual relationship. When a pedophile acts on his/her fantasies, some innocent child's life is shattered. As far as I know you can't make a pedo stop wanting to molest children, it's not a choice. But if they act on their desires that doesn't matter, because they hurt people. They destroy lives. Lock 'em up. Keep 'em there.

Claiming that gays denying their choice in the matter somehow advances the "pedophile agenda" is insane.

BTW, deltecs. I agree wholeheartedly. The Fed shouldn't be involved in this issue at all. If a state wants to ban gay marriage, that should be that. Same goes for if they want to allow it.

[dukkillr]

The extremely huge difference is that when a same sex couple enjoy themselves in the bedroom, no one is harmed. There are no "victims" in a consenting homosexual relationship. When a pedophile acts on his/her fantasies, some innocent child's life is shattered. As far as I know you can't make a pedo stop wanting to molest children, it's not a choice. But if they act on their desires that doesn't matter, because they hurt people. They destroy lives. Lock 'em up. Keep 'em there.

Claiming that gays denying their choice in the matter somehow advances the "pedophile agenda" is insane.

Of course it's insane... Well said.

[billy_56081]

 Of course if I were a family law lawyer I would consider anyone opposed to gay marriage to have an insane view. As I stated before this law is just being pushed by parasitic lawyers just trying to make a buck. Gays claim they were born that way, I'm sure pedophiles feel the same way. Many people have the inner urge to kill, steal, or rape it is the oversight of mans laws or gods laws that keep them from doing this.  It's the nature of the beast.

[Beers]

You apparently didn't even read my post. Not to mention Dukkillr's earlier post. You're starting to sound like a parrot. If someone challenges your way of thinking you just repeat yourself, as if by repetition you think you can create truth.... RAAAWK! LAWYERS AND PEDOPHILES! LAWYERS AND PEDOPHILES! RAAAWK!

I'm not a lawyer btw. 

[kevthebassman]

You apparently didn't even read my post. Not to mention Dukkillr's earlier post. You're starting to sound like a parrot. If someone challenges your way of thinking you just repeat yourself, as if by repetition you think you can create truth.... RAAAWK! LAWYERS AND PEDOPHILES! LAWYERS AND PEDOPHILES! RAAAWK!

I'm not a lawyer btw. 

Haha!  You've sure got Billy pegged.

IRONGLOW, HOOKER. Good posts, I agree. This has turned into a Christian bashing thread, instead of an INFORMED opinion thread. You anti Christians will be real shocked some day. If we are wrong, we have lost nothing. You anti Christians on the other hand, will have lost it all. Yes, this thread is dead

I don't think anyone in here has come out as anti-Christian, we just want the hypocritical Christians-in-name-only to live by the book before they start forcing bits and pieces of it down our throat.

And I'm sure that God will appreciate your "just hedging my bets" attitude.  Really, that's what your brand of "faith" is all about, "If I'm wrong, I haven't lost anything.  If you're wrong, I win!"   I'm sure God appreciates that mentality.

We "anti-Christians" as you put it, have made our bed, and we'll sleep in it.  If God doesn't want all people treated with respect and dignity, then he isn't any God I would ever choose to worship.  If treating people the way I'd like to be treated regardless of religious dogma* means my punishment is an eternity swimming in a lake of fire, then so be it.



*For Powderman and Billy's benefit:

Main Entry:
    dog·ma
Pronunciation:
    \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\
Function:
    noun
Inflected Form(s):
    plural dogmas also dog·ma·ta
Etymology:
    Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem — more at decent
Date:
    1638

1 a: something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b: a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church