Author Topic: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr  (Read 1531 times)

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Offline thelionspaw

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15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« on: May 18, 2008, 04:17:05 PM »
I had Cabin Fever one winter 25 years ago. The snow was deep and I was bored with work so I brought this picture from a book to my blacksmith friend at his forge. He was bored too so we built THE LION'S PAW.
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Offline Terry C.

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2008, 04:40:27 PM »
Awesome!

Offline cannonmn

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 04:43:29 PM »
Kewlist thing I've seen in a long while.

How's bout sommore pictures with details of barrel, breech etc.

Offline Double D

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 04:56:25 PM »
That is a nice looking piece.  Tell us more.

Why don't  you go back up to Calender picture post find your post, click on modify, dlete the picture of your Pick-up and post these two pictures, this a neat piece!!

Offline EL Caz 66

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 09:30:33 PM »
OUTSTANDING

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2008, 01:06:16 AM »
GREAT PIX!

That third shot is "CALENDAR"!

Add people to your pictures and the come alive.

IMPRESSIVE toy! 

Interesting eleveation mechanism.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline thelionspaw

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2008, 02:41:17 AM »
Forgive me if I fudge this computer thing. As I have said, I'm from the 15th c. and we didn't have these things. I just can't seem to get things launched as they should be.

The "Lion's Paw" weighs 400 lbs and HE has lots of detailed images of himself. A vain beast.  If interest continues, I'll continue posting. I have a problem confining myself to 1024 and can only do 2 at a time because 3 images average 1150.  I do not know computers.

Richard

P.S. Thank you for the responses. They are gratifying.
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Offline thelionspaw

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2008, 11:28:46 AM »
The other thing I am not familiar with, is posting etiquette. Am I out of line by doubling-up or do you want more images?

The bore is 2 1/2" but I since the tube is layered similarly to an original, I do not load it as a muzzle loader would be loaded. I gauge the powder charge to fit the breechblock measurements, i.e. the recess width is 1 3/4", depth 3 7/8" and of paramount importance, the 7/8" wall. Remember, this is not a muzzle-loader.

Originals often began with a mandrel wrapped with a sheet of iron that would have sported a welded seam. It was then wrapped with welded iron bars. As a variation, the wooden mandrel was only wrapped in iron bars.

I began with a seamed tube, which was then wrapped with some welded re-bars. 

Now once again I exercised one of the variations. An original had 2 main choices, e.g. wrapping the welded bars in a sheet of iron (rare) and then hoop it or just hoop it (common). I sleeved my iron bars with a seamless tube and then hooped it. Mine imitates the rare variation.

My problem is with the American Artillery Association guidelines in that I do not fit.  They call for a seamless "liner" and my has a seamless "outer". Unlike belly buttons where inner and outer are equal in function, the cannon barrel is debateable.  Moot point as far as I am personally concerned.

More to come if you are interested?
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 12:01:27 PM »
Richard -

KEEP 'EM COMING!

Two or three at time is good - gives us a chance to look, read and respond.

Collecting many posts with a lot of pictures in ONE thread is good too, one place to look for the whole story.  You'll find sometimes there will end up being (over time) a thousand responses.

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Offline Tropico

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2008, 12:40:37 PM »
I am with Terry C. 
Quote
Awesome!

I'll take two ! ! ! 

Offline Double D

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2008, 01:18:15 PM »

My problem is with the American Artillery Association guidelines in that I do not fit.  They call for a seamless "liner" and my has a seamless "outer". Unlike belly buttons where inner and outer are equal in function, the cannon barrel is debateable.  Moot point as far as I am personally concerned.

More to come if you are interested?

I understand the AAA position clearly.  It has nothing to do with strength but everything to do with the effects of hidden corrosion over a period of time.   

Offline dan610324

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2008, 01:40:54 PM »
oooohh thats an extreme gun

usually I aint interested in iron guns , but this one was extremely beautiful

hope you will continue sending detail pictures of it .
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline KABAR2

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 02:51:40 PM »
Quote
author=thelionspaw link=topic=145013.msg1098588336#msg1098588336 date=1211200877]
 

The "Lion's Paw" weighs 400 lbs and HE has lots of detailed images of himself. A vain beast.   

 


Richard,

You have a fine piece there! and I haven't met a cat yet that wasn't a vain beast! ;D

Now I see the Mason's have had a hand in this...... does that mean the gunner knows the secret hand shake?

Allen <><
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline thelionspaw

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 03:53:17 PM »
Actually, the square and compass are alchemist's symbols. I have an illustration of them by Basile Valentine, a 15th c. monk and alchemist.  Early Master Gunners were civilian artists and not military. They were looked upon as sorcerers. The discovery of gun powder was attributed not to human but to devilish agency.  Alchemists were associated with artillery.  Freemasonry was begun by alchemists and among them were Robert Moray, Quarter-Master General of the Covenenter Army of Scotland and Alexander Hamilton, General of Artillery. The Lion's Paw is significant in the final step in alchemy and the final degree in Freemasonry. It is part of an allegory of an allegory. Early cannon were often as I have remarked, civilian owned and not uncommonly paid for by individuals, groups, etc., in times of conflict; hence the application of armorial achievements, and symbols on individual cannon.  Wow! That's alot of history.

Richard
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Offline thelionspaw

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2008, 03:57:21 PM »
This bronze medallion was presented to me by Major General Solomon, the then Chief of Ordnance, Ordnance Corps, U.S.A.. He had requested my cannon's presence for the 175th anniversary of the Watervliet Arsenal. He also wanted it for display in the US Army Ordnance Corps museum in Aberdeen Maryland. Pictured are the face and obverse.

The gold and the silver medallions were presented to me by the Commander of the Watervliet Arsenal. It is the oldest operational cannon factory in America. He also wanted The Lion's Paw for their museum. It was like a bidding war. I came home with my cannon and the medallions.

Both museums are well worth a visit if you are in the area of Albany NY for Watervliet and Aberdeen for the other. They by-the-way, wanted my cannon because they said it was the only complete replication in America. Maybe? I don't know? It's just my cannon. The arsenal cast an iron shot for me.

I use the tools and display the projectiles. I have more types of cannon fodder for display than these. Any questions?

Richard
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Offline thelionspaw

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 01:22:59 AM »
Since there do not seem to be any questions forthcoming, I am going to wrap this up with some remaining images. I'll always be here to answer question, should the need arise.

These are details that a few of you expressed an interest in.  I know the aiming method will be novel to some of you. Doing the black-smithing was alot of fun.  Bill and I would heave the hot iron into the snow bank to cool it and then huddle around the forge to warm ourselves up.

The barrel straps and links (especially the links) come in handy, now that I am no-longer a young buck and use a block to pull the 115 lb tube.

When I enlarged the details of the components onto paper for patterns from the book's page, I was as picture-perfect as I could be.  Our iron looks as good as the original.

What we built, is a fairly accurate piece of construction, suited for salutes and tennis balls but not exactly safe in my opinion for round-shot. The core is seamed and encased in re-bar but the skin is seamless and the reinforce rings are 99,400 Tensile and have a yield of 89,800 with a grade of 1026 which should contain any weakness.  However I am in the process of converting the tennis ball Falcon into a golf ball Serpentine with a removable tube.

I joined this group because of the overwhelming presence of professionalism, safety and common sense with the absence of rubber-heads  and hammer-heads.  I would hope to be able to see your pieces at first hand some day.
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Offline EL Caz 66

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2008, 02:32:45 AM »
I Thank You for sharing this experience with us, now that the weather is permitting some fire & smoke video footage would be awesome. ;)

Regards,
Ed

Offline dan610324

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 02:59:16 AM »
is there any more info in that book the first picture comes from ??
please let me know if so .

do you got any measurements from your gun and carriage ??
Im very curious   ;D
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline thelionspaw

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2008, 04:38:31 AM »
O.K.!  Two for the price of one.  I have to answer both posts here because I don't know how to do them individually.  First: Again, I do not know my way around a computer or this camera. It has this video thingy (?) and it belongs to my daughter Jen,  who had a high average full scholarship to Bard College, Annandale-on-Hudson. What does that mean?  Just this: The first thing she does, is to throw-out any instructions that ever came with anything.  Right!  A Bard trait?  Yup!  An artist too. 

She shipped the camera to me and what I did to post these pictures, was an experience.  She is taking the bus up from NYC for the weekend and I already know that WE don't know how to make a video with this thing besides not knowing how to post them.  The sun is supposed to shine for 3 days (we had snow last week) so I intended to get some stills of the piece discharging. We'll wing it from there.

Confidentially speaking, I had intended to let the beast roar because I see that on the other side of the valley from me there is a little construction going on, i.e. a new mile long "driveway" cut through the trees to what looks like a large greenhouse being built. Why would anyone build a greenhouse in the woods?

Next question: What exactly do you want in the way of measurements?  I'll tape measure and jot down whatever you wish. 

Richard the Suspicious
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Offline dan610324

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2008, 05:01:47 AM »
measurements , oooohh . if I can wish I want all of them   ;D ;D

but if I could get the most important of them and then I could figure the rest out by looking at your photos .
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline thelionspaw

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Re: 15th c. Wrought Iron Breechblock 2 pdr
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2008, 04:28:51 PM »
Dan,
Tell you what I'm going to do. I'm giving you my website address which has detailed images if the cannon.     www.shavehorse.com    click "Medieval Cannon".  It gives you the length, width and wheel height.  I'll make some measurements and post them.  Use my website for reference, as I will be referring to those images with the measurements.

I just surfed "Flickr Photo Sharing" at    www.flickr.com/photos     and looked at the group, "Show Me Your Cannon".  I saw an original wrought iron breechblock from Slovakia and it is in one piece.  They were built to last.  I'm in that group too, under "The Lion's Paw".  It's a nice site.

The page I included with my images for this thread, came from a book written and published in Czecho-Slovakia ca. 1953.  I used it to construct the cannon. 

Richard
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