Looking to change Powders

[FourBee]

Question:    Is American Pioneer Powder fffg easily cleaned from your weapon after a days shooting session?   It is said that it burns clean, so I'm assuming it may clean up easily too.

I occasionally shoot a .44cal cap and ball revolver for enjoyment using Pyrodex fffg and it's a pain to clean up after. 
The Revolver is a gift from several years ago, and I didn't know anything about BP weapons at the time, so after shooting it, I never touched it for quite some time, and by then it was a bit of a mess.   Lots of cleaning and  breaking a couple of nipple wrenches, I finally was able to get it operational again.   That experience taught me to clean the piece after every use.  But I almost dread shooting it anymore because of the tough clean-up job that Pyrodex causes.


4/B

[Flint]

I found that Pyrodex needs to be cleaned almost immediately, at the range before going home.  Vinegar Windex at least to break the fouling and neutralize it, and/or Ballistol, MP7 or such.  The Pyrodex fouling seems to harden or get glassy fairly quickly.

I found Pyrodex to be much more corrosive than real black powder.

APP will work, use 3fg, the 2fg is like gravel.

Hogdon's 777 will also work and is easiest of all subs to clean.

[FourBee]

   Hey Flint:
   Thanks for your answer.    I've been using Pyrodex for years now, and it is harsh on the hardware for sure.

I've thought about trying the Triple '7', but kind of shy of it, only because I've heard it's a fast burner which could cause problems, - and it was added that the company doesn't recommend wads over the powder.    May not be anything to what I heard, but rumors like that can put a damper on things.

[lrrice]

Never used any thing but black or pyrodex. I have considered the others till I priced them and quickly decided they couldn't be that great.  As for cleaning, just pop off the barrel, take off the loading lever, remove the nipples and drop it all in a bucket of hot soapy water (except the frame).  A dowel just smaller that the cylinder wrapped with a rag works well  to clean the chambers.  Dry every thing inside and out then give it all a light coat of oil.  I wipe the frame and hammer down and only disassemble them occasionally to clean the gunk out and oil then oil them well.  Don't over tighten anything, especially the nipples.  Just lightly finger tight is plenty and you won't hate your self next time.

[zoned10x]

Pyrodex is corrosive.  Try Triple 7, it burns with practically no carbon residue and rinses out quickly with just water.  A revolver will always have the usual cap crap at the nipples and leading around the cone, but with 777 in my match muzzleloaders the only real cleaning necessary is to remove cap residue with Simple Green. 

[FourBee]

   Well; after checking with all the local shops around here I found that two carry the Triple Seven, but none of them carry the American Pioneer Powder.   Nor do they carry Remington #10 Percussion Caps, which I've heard work well with the Colt replicas, "but not on the Remington's ".   

Sooo, I coughed up the 'Hazard Fee', and ordered some APP FFFg .   At least I'll know if it was worth the hassle.       

[buffermop]

I solely use Triple 7 in my 44 c/b and also use wads over the charge with no problems what so ever.

[PeashooterJoe]

I use 777 and cardboard wads and cornmeal filler sometimes. The reason for not using wads were, people using fiber wads was compressing the powder too much causing erratic results. 777 shouldn't be compressed like black powder is normally done. Love the clean up on rifles and pistols once I learned how to load it as with anything else. Recommended lubes are the same of the smokeless powders they sell. This is just my experience with it, each user' may vary.

[kevthebassman]

The only things I've heard about APP is that it is a total joke.  I think it all boils down to the fact that black powder and all of it's substitutes are corrosive.  They all need to be cleaned soon after shooting.  I don't think paying out the nose for APP is going to get you that much more performance than a $12 can of goex.

[Oquirrh]

For what it's worth, I've used the Pioneer and find it much cleaner than the Pyrodex. But it costs $4-$5 more a bottle. Accuracy is roughly the same outta my ROA.

I can't get GOEX anymore without driving 45 miles.

[FourBee]

   Thanks for your input  Oquirrh :     

My APP oughta be here any day now.    Like you, no one around here carries the real BP.  Well; there is a shop that has some locked up.   He's had it for years and until I came along, nobody has ever wanted any.  He had to go out and see just what he did have.  I was wanting the FFFg, but all he could find was the FFg. 

4/B

[FourBee]

   The Stuff came in.   

Tried the Caps on the cylinder nipples right out of the tin.   They fit decent, not tight.    Now to do the testing.   

[gstewart44]

I use BP, pyrodex or Trip7 in my Hawkin 54, knowing that I will need to clean it immediately-they are all corrosive.    For my CB revolvers however I now only use APP simply because of virtually no fouling (can keep shooting longer) and very easy cleanup.    I have not seen any problems with corrosion because I do break them down and give a bath in hot soapy water.    Let us know how the APP works for you.

[Smokin_Gun]

Here's a good conversion chart page if you are gonna use 777 ffg it's got to be reduced 15% by volume from Black powder. 777 fffg is hotter yet I don't recommend it in Revs.
I only use the Holy Black myself...Goex fffg. I had an incident with the 777 ffg28gr in a Pietta 1860  it's a 10 yr old Rev. Had made a new wedge for it tried it out with a calculated 777 ffg load as I ran out of BP.  Store dint have the shipment in yet.  Anyway I fired 3 shots...all was ok wedge still tight. Fired 3more and the last one felt funny. I looked at the wedge it wasn't there, looked on the ground and there it was. Stood up with 1860 in hand and watched the barrel assy swing on the arbor. Yup sheered off both locating pins at the frame. So I still have more than a half a container of 777 ffg. But plenty of Holy Black. OK end of story I made pins to replace the ones I drilled out and they are bigger than the stock Pietta which I found were stepped in diameter smaller in the frame and staked. Now mine is a custom Pietta.
SG

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

[kevthebassman]

I'm lucky enough to have a local source for black powder.  No reason to burn APP at $25 per pound when the real black works just fine at $13 per pound.

[FourBee]

Well; I'm back.  Had a great time getting a few results.   
Began at 9:00 a.m. this morning.   The weather was a humid 85 degrees and climbing .
   
Didn't bring enough powder and I shot nearly 80 rounds before I ran out .   The powder did great. 

 No problems with the humidity.  I've had the powder in a Flask for days now, and there was no sign of caking as we've heard about, and it made plenty of smoke.
   
I used from 25 to 35 grains of powder.   The 35 grains makes a big boom!!!   This powder shoots clean, and did not cause any binding or stiffening of the action during this short session.
   
As for the Remington #10 Caps;  they performed well.   They fit snug, so there was no worry about them coming off.   Although once fired they're just like all the others.  I'm not going to clean my guns right away.  So I'll let you know how that part comes out.
4B

[FourBee]

   Flilnt is right; APP cleans A-Okay.
Cleaning up APP is best done with hot soapy water and a hot water rinse.   This powder fouling doesn't gum up, but it has an oily consistencey which helps keeping everything operating smoothly.   However, it is still dirty, and gets into the same cracks and crevises. 

On the first gun I used solvents, and it does a fair job, but tends to pass over the hard to get places, and I ended up spending extra time there.  Clean-up time takes about 30 minutes.   With the hot soapy water most of the grime came off immediately.   Had to take a toothbrush to the nipple heads, but I figure that build-up was from the Percussion Caps, and not the APP.

I like the APP because it doesn't have a problem seizing up.   I like my guns clean, so guess I'm going to have to enjoy stripping 'em down and giving 'em a bath.
4B

[FourBee]

   Well; guess what?  I found a place that sells the real thing.  He sells SWISS, KIK, SKIRMISH, and GOEX.  Got a pound of GOEX.    Will run it through my guns to see if it gums up like PYRODEX.   If I like it, that's what I'm going to use.    Those substitutes are a little bit steep costwise.   

[Smokin_Gun]

Cleaning up APP is best done with hot soapy water and a hot water rinse

That's how I have been cleaning all my Revs and Rifles for 30 yrs. Dishsoap and scaldin' hot water, and rinse water. Can soak 3-4 Revs at a time in my 28lb Tidy Cat Buckets. 
What I use to keep the Revs shootin' all day with out cleanin' is homade lube pills placed on top of the powder under the ball.  Mix a olive/Soybean oil, beeswax or bolwax, and parafin in a melt and cut out to .31, .36, or .44cal.
Works for me... Ail I shoot is The Holy Black, ain't nothin' more accurate or that Feels, looks , or smells the same when it goes off. 

SG