357 sig vs 45acp vs 357mag vs 40S&W

[SharonAnne]

My Para 9x23 is sighted in on a 6" plate at 100 yd. When I do my part it never misses. On the other hand, I on occasion DO miss. On a normal day I probably keep 7 or 8 out of 10 on the 6" steel plate. I hear people talking about me as I shoot. Especially when I miss.
"She got it, She got it, oh She missed"

[teddy12b]

I definately don't shoot that well with my 4" xd.  I just need to put more rounds through the gun.  I hadn't fired it in forever and I have about 200 bullets I need to get loaded up sometime.  I normally shoot 230gr fmj but ended up getting a good deal on some sierra jhp.  Now I just have to try those out this weekend too.

[SharonAnne]

there is a big difference between the pistols. My Para is match built,compensated, has a red dot sight. The red dot sight is the single most important part in enabling ME to put the rounds on target. Iron sights at 100 yd are just WAY harder to shoot well.  I know most pistols are tested at 25 and 50 yd but I have never shot from a rest at those ranges.

[teddy12b]

I've never shot my xd from a from a rest.  I don't have anything against them, I just haven't had one or looked for one to try it with.  With a 4" barrel I don't know if I even could.  I'm starting to get the 1911 itch again so we'll see what happens in the future.

[SHOOTALL]

we shoot out to 500 yards with hand guns , miss some hit some , not as hard as it looks once you try it . bars on front sight post help get on target faster .

[m-g Willy]

we shoot out to 500 yards with hand guns , miss some hit some , not as hard as it looks once you try it . bars on front sight post help get on target faster .

WOW!
I think the OP should consider a good rifle for 500yard shots on a pit or rott!



Willy

[teddy12b]

I've seen guys shoot out to 500 yards with a handgun before, but usually it's so close to being a rifle that it's hard to tell the difference.  The one I've seen was similar to the savage striker series and those are pretty hard to consider a pistol. 

[SHOOTALL]

I use 44mag. , 45 Colt Loaded hot and 454 . all revolvers all open sights . It is not hard at all and yes a good rest is needed . Once you get on target you can stay on most shots . our target is a 24 in. X 30 in. plate . Keep in mind we are talking hits not groups here ! at 100 yards with out a rest can be more difficult but doable ! And an auto that does it is impressive ! Can't wait to try a Delta Gold Cup soon !

[PaulS]

100 yard pistol shooting takes lots of practice, accurate ammo and a good gun. I shot an average 38 of 40 targets when I was shooting Hunter's pistol with my Ruger Security six. I rarely missed a turkey at 75 yards but always missed at least one of the rams at 100 yards. I did have one perfect score in the two years I competed.
You really have to know yourself, your ammo and your gun. 357mag, 146 grain HP, H110 and open iron sights.... Good enough!

[Old Griz]

I think most all of the calibers mentioned, .38, .357, .357 Sig., 9mm, 10mm, .45 ACP, .44 Special (which I don't think anyone mentioned, until now, as well as the new .327), will all do the job. The unknown variable is at the other end. Some folks are going to fold like a house of cards hit in the arm with a .38. Others will be like the guy at the infamous FBI shootout in Miami that led to the development of the .40 caliber (10mm Weenie). How many times was he hit before he finally went down? (I have forgotten.) You can talk about "one shot stops/kills" all day long, but the tricky part is the person being shot. And I'm not even talking about PCP or any other kind of drugs in his system, I'm just talking about a regular person. We're all different. Too different obviously for anyone to set in stone that their favorite round is going to drop someone first time, everytime. That's why we shoot until the threat is nullified. Man, pit bull, or angry squirrel.

(I better add .380, .41 mag and .45 Colt to my above list so no one feels left out. I did omit the hunting rounds and the real weenie loads on purpose.)

[jamaldog87]

I think most all of the calibers mentioned, .38, .357, .357 Sig., 9mm, 10mm, .45 ACP, .44 Special (which I don't think anyone mentioned, until now, as well as the new .327), will all do the job. The unknown variable is at the other end. Some folks are going to fold like a house of cards hit in the arm with a .38. Others will be like the guy at the infamous FBI shootout in Miami that led to the development of the .40 caliber (10mm Weenie). How many times was he hit before he finally went down? (I have forgotten.) You can talk about "one shot stops/kills" all day long, but the tricky part is the person being shot. And I'm not even talking about PCP or any other kind of drugs in his system, I'm just talking about a regular person. We're all different. Too different obviously for anyone to set in stone that their favorite round is going to drop someone first time, everytime. That's why we shoot until the threat is nullified. Man, pit bull, or angry squirrel.

(I better add .380, .41 mag and .45 Colt to my above list so no one feels left out. I did omit the hunting rounds and the real weenie loads on purpose.)

I have used the 380 for coyote hunting at 10-30 yards and it does drop them. I have hear that if your carry gun(this is what i have hear) can't kill a med size dog them it would stop a person. From what i have seen and research about it comes down to accuracy over power most times(just look at how many people have been killed with .22LR,25acp and 32acp). Like a read a story were there was a shoot out with some cops. the young guns had some like a Smith & Wesson M&P45 or some kind of 10+ 45acp gun. anyways they fired something like 50 rounds and hit nothing and then a off dult cop that was going by stopped and help his follow cops. He had a 380 with FMJ rounds and he stopped the guy with 3 rounds from that gun after using cover to get closer and taking those well aim shots. I just saiding it better to have 3 well aim shots from a 380 or other small gun hit then have 10 or 15 miss shots from a 45 and also your more likely to carry that small gun more then the big guns.

[SHOOTALL]

SUPPOSE YOU HAVE 3 WELL AIMED SHOTS FROM A 45 ?

[AtlLaw]

SUPPOSE YOU HAVE 3 WELL AIMED SHOTS FROM A 45 ?

you wasted 2 rounds!   

[Old Griz]

It wasn't a waste! It's called practice!

[SHOOTALL]

Round  here it could be 3 targets !

[MZ5]

I just thought I'd mention here (sorry it's a little out of date) that I've actually used my firearm against a pit bull in anger.  It was one shot only, the dog was broadside on, and it was a bang-flop.  Just pointed at the 'big middle' to use a big-game term.  'Course, it was a .30-06, so maybe the effect was not so surprising... 

[bilmac]

Made a "good" pit bull out of him.

[navylawdog]

Well with the calibers that you listed you actually have an advantage. All you would have to do is go and buy a handgun in either the .40 or the .357 and then buy the other barrel for it. Then you have two different guns in one and you can decide for yourself which of those two you like the most.

Navylawdog

[toysoldier]

I'm a little late getting to this, but would like to bring up a point. In an auto pistol, reliability is sometimes difficult to ensure. One thing I have read in every review of every .357sig pistol is absolute reliability, with the bottle-necked cartridge feeding perfectly, no matter what bullet.
Combine that with magazine capacity, weight (compare the weight of a .357 six-shot revolver to that of a high-capacity .357sig pistol), rapid reloading, and near-.357mag performance, and perhaps you can understand its attractiveness for law enforcement agencies. There's a lot more involved in choosing a gun than the diameter, weight and velocity of the slug it throws.

[williamlayton]

Sharonann
We seem to be linked at the hip somewhere down the genetic line.
I am soory to Dis ya but we do seem too think along same lines most of the time.
Blessings

[SharonAnne]

williaml , i see no Dis. it is a compliment. great minds think alike

Blessed Be

SharonAnne

[Merle]

There's really no way to predict this unless you have data.  The Sanow and FBI data is what needs looking at.  Really....I'm sure 200gr 357+p+++ loads are awesome, but are they fight stoppers???  Do you know for sure???

They might be great for hunting which is NOT the same as fighting humans.

There is quite alot of data, by way of both actual shootings and police reports and lab testing, that indicates that the 357mag ( any brand really) with 125gr HPs at 1200-1400fps is a proven stopper if you can handle it.  So isn't the 45acp and the 40SW.  The 9mm comes in last in 1 shot stops.  Though, the 9mm may be more lethal because of lower recoil and the greater chance of multiple hits by moderately trained shooters.

So....is the .357sig adequate or on par with the others....IMO....yep....shoot it well and it's as good as any.

I've been searching for this type of data with poor success.
Where can I find it?

Thanks.

 

[Merle]

Have you ever fired a bullet from a 357 at an engine block? I have it bounces! You DO NOT want to be in the way!
That is an urban myth. The 357 magnum is a hunting round meant to kill - not stop.
I too carry a 357 mag, I intend to kill if my life is in danger. Stopping is ok but I can shoot twice to stop the perp and he will be dead as he stops.

I once shot an old fashoned (heavy cast iron walls) engine block with a 30-06 using 150 gr SP ammo.
One round out of five made it thru the outer jacket & caved in a cylinder wall far enough that it MIGHT have stopped the engine.
The rest left about 1/2 inch holes, which would have let the water out fairly quickly & caused overheating.
I have not had the chance to try out one of the new lightweight engines, but would expect somewhat better performane against them.
And so much for that myth about the 357 mag!

 

[jamaldog87]

Have you ever fired a bullet from a 357 at an engine block? I have it bounces! You DO NOT want to be in the way!
That is an urban myth. The 357 magnum is a hunting round meant to kill - not stop.
I too carry a 357 mag, I intend to kill if my life is in danger. Stopping is OK but I can shoot twice to stop the perp and he will be dead as he stops.

I once shot an old fashoned (heavy cast iron walls) engine block with a 30-06 using 150 gr SP ammo.
One round out of five made it thru the outer jacket & caved in a cylinder wall far enough that it MIGHT have stopped the engine.
The rest left about 1/2 inch holes, which would have let the water out fairly quickly & caused overheating.
I have not had the chance to try out one of the new lightweight engines, but would expect somewhat better performane against them.
And so much for that myth about the 357 mag!

 

i only got one thing about the hole engine block thing. there called anti-materiel rifles

An anti-materiel rifle (AM) is a rifle that is designed for use against military equipment (matériel) rather than against other combatants ("anti-personnel").

They are similar in form and appearance to modern sniper rifles and can often serve in that role, though they are usually chambered for cartridges more powerful than is normally required for neutralizing an enemy combatant and can operate at a greater range. In general, anti-materiel rifles are chambered for 12.7x99mm NATO (.50 BMG), 12.7x108mm Russian or even 14.5x114mm Russian and 20mm cartridges. The large cartridges are required to be able to fire projectiles containing usable payloads like explosives, armour piercing cores, incendiaries or combinations of that like found in the Raufoss Mk211 projectile.

the guns are effective for attacking unarmored or lightly armored vehicles. They can be used against enemy fuel dumps, aircraft, communications equipment, trucks, automobiles, and similar targets. Their value is in being able to precisely target and disable enemy assets from long range for a relatively low cost.

if you want to stop a car use a rifle not a hand gun. Most handgun bullet can't even shoot though the wind shield so a engine block  i don't think so. Also humans fall in the light game like small deer or wolfs that why a 44mag on people does not get as much stopping power as you would think.
that just what i have read.

[yooper77]

Really, only one will drop a large dog?

In a semi-auto I would choose the 45 ACP, pure energy transferred into any large dog will turn it off like a switch.

In a revolver the 357 Magnum is simple medicine.

The 357 SIG is not a heavy hitter compared to the 45 ACP, 357 Magnum or 40 S&W.

I use my Ruger Single Six in .22 WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) and any dog has dropped like a stone.  It is efficient on large canine critters if the shooter knows what he or she is doing; I have proven it more times that I can list without incident.  I only use Winchester Super-X ammo 40 grain JHP bullets, delivers devastating penetration and bullet expansion every time.  I only can give my own experience as proven fact, but choosing a larger cartridge would be wiser for most people, but the 22 WMR has worked for me without error.

yooper77

[teddy12b]

I've been a 45ACP guy for a long time and until recently I didn't really consider any smaller caliber.  When you look at all the different types of ammo out there, I don't think any of those calibers would be wrong.  I wouldn't be too worried about using a 9mm with a good hollow point bullet.  Unless your gun only carries one bullet, just keep shooting!

[navylawdog]

They are similar in form and appearance to modern sniper rifles and can often serve in that role, though they are usually chambered for cartridges more powerful than is normally required for neutralizing an enemy combatant and can operate at a greater range. In general, anti-materiel rifles are chambered for 12.7x99mm NATO (.50 BMG), 12.7x108mm Russian or even 14.5x114mm Russian and 20mm cartridges. The large cartridges are required to be able to fire projectiles containing usable payloads like explosives, armour piercing cores, incendiaries or combinations of that like found in the Raufoss Mk211 projectile.



Jamaldog,

Most of this is true except that you don't have to have a very large caliber for these special use rounds. You can get 7.62x54R, .30-06, and .308 incendiary rounds. All these can be had in armor piercing rounds as well plus others.

navylawdog

[jamaldog87]

They are similar in form and appearance to modern sniper rifles and can often serve in that role, though they are usually chambered for cartridges more powerful than is normally required for neutralizing an enemy combatant and can operate at a greater range. In general, anti-materiel rifles are chambered for 12.7x99mm NATO (.50 BMG), 12.7x108mm Russian or even 14.5x114mm Russian and 20mm cartridges. The large cartridges are required to be able to fire projectiles containing usable payloads like explosives, armour piercing cores, incendiaries or combinations of that like found in the Raufoss Mk211 projectile.



Jamaldog,

Most of this is true except that you don't have to have a very large caliber for these special use rounds. You can get 7.62x54R, .30-06, and .308 incendiary rounds. All these can be had in armor piercing rounds as well plus others.

navylawdog

i got that off the net, but still if you want to stop a car or something bigger(like planes on the ground) the 50BMG or larger is whats needed. the 9mm can also be had in AP but it still does not give you the stopping power needed that you would get from a .223 rifle. as for handguns for anti-dog/ other use i would go with .38 or larger. I had just heard from cop magazine and other law stuff like that that the 357Sig was best for human and animal use. i would buy what i could find so a Stars arm in 9mm-45acp, Rossi's 38 or 357,Stoeger Cougar  or a good 380 and i would feel safe. if put 3-5 rounds of 380 in any dog head it's going down.

[RaySendero]

On paper the 357 sig is the most power auto round but does it have better stopping power then the 45 or 357mag or 40 s%W? i have hear it's the only round that will drop a pit bull or Rottweilers  dog with one shot.

My choice is 45 ACP!!!

[SharonAnne]

I have no idea what format the 357sig is used in competition. The 38 super has no feeding problems as demonstrated by over 20 years of dominating USPSA Open division.
The 357sig is NOT the most powerful 35 caliber auto pistol. In standard loadings the 9x23 winchester is cataloged at 1450fps and regularly chronos at 1500fps with 124gr bullets.
yooper, I wish you well if you shoot any dog with a .22rf. It will most likely gnaw you to death before it bleeds out.

Jamal again shows his 'knowledge' comes from reading magazines. Show me ONE department that has converted to 357sig. While it does outshine the 9mmP, for the same magazine capacity you can have the 40 S&W with much heavier bullets at the same velocities as the 357sigs lighter ones. After all the 357sig is effectively a necked down 40. An interesting intellectual exercise but why bother?

The "proven" .357S&W Magnum load is 125gr jhp at 1450fps. NOT a 1200-1400fps load. It has about a 97% one shot stop 'rating'. Which means at least 3% of the time IT WILL NOT WORK with one round.

Statistics are just numbers.

 If you must shoot in defense, shoot to STOP and keep shooting until the criminal action is STOPPED, then YOU STOP shooting and call 911 and request an ambulance because you ARE the GOOD GUY. We shoot to STOP, never to kill. It must be legally irrelevant if the perpetrator dies.

For perspective, I hunt with a .30-06, 165gr BTHP sierra gameking handloaded to 2800fps verified by chronograph.  The ONLY whitetail that dropped at the shot was hit in the spine. ALL of the others were heart shot, and the SHORTEST distance any ran was 20yds.

 Don't talk to me of 'knock down power' with a hand gun.