hunting with a surplus rifle

[billy]

Who hunts with a military surplus rifle ,what kind and have you had any luck with it?

[azmike]

I am curious about this also.  I'm considering a M44 Nagant as a heavy timber elk rifle this year.  Figure I wouldn't need to worry about dinging it up or getting soaked in the rain.

[billy]

I have a mosin nagant 91/59 ,going to make a scout rifle out of it to hunt close cover.

[TribReady]

I prefer to stick with an 8mm if using a military surplus rifle.

I've used both a MN 91/30 and an M44.  If you use them, get quality bullets and reload. I used Barnaul SP hunting ammo and wasn't impressed with its performance at all.  That was quite a few years ago.

I wouldn't hesitate using a Mosin of any kind deer hunting out to about 100-120 yards (obviously the closer the better, especially with open sights).  If I was elk hunting, I'd stick with a .303 Enfield, 8mm mauser of any kind, .308 USGI, or .30-06 USGI of any kind, 6.5 Swede.  I don't have all of the ballistics, etc for each, but I personally don't put enough trust in the 7.62x54 for elk

[DCRthe3rd]

Used a mosin m44 and 91/30 , s&b 180gr soft points evaporate in the deer , wolf 200gr sp that is hard to find anymore is a sweet bullet.
303 number 4 mk1 pmp 174gr soft points , no troubles
sks wolf 154gr sp , better bullet than you'd think
Got myself a german mauser but decided that gun wouldn't ever be used to kill anything

[Mikey]

TribReady: You said - "If I was elk hunting, I'd stick with a .303 Enfield, 8mm mauser of any kind, .308 USGI, or .30-06 USGI of any kind, 6.5 Swede.  I don't have all of the ballistics, etc for each, but I personally don't put enough trust in the 7.62x54 for elk".

Yet you would go with a 308???  The 7.62x54R is at least halfway in power twixt the 308 and the 06 and is probably a bit heavier than the 303.  It is a very effective cartridge and a personal choice over the 308.

I have hunted whitetail and hogs and bear with the 06, 303, 8mm and 6.5 Swede.  They all bring home the bacon, or venison.  Mikey.

[Cheesehead]

When I first started deer hunting, I hunted with a Mauser 98K 8mm and used nothing else for years, since it was my only rifle. It is a great big game rifle and i still have it.

Cheese

[DCRthe3rd]

I do believe the russians along with many others have used the 7.62x54r with great success in hunting , you use a good bullet and there is no reason for it not to be a good elk round for heavy timber

[TribReady]

Yet you would go with a 308???  The 7.62x54R is at least halfway in power twixt the 308 and the 06 and is probably a bit heavier than the 303.  It is a very effective cartridge and a personal choice over the 308.

iI know that you're right, Mikey, I think for me its a personal thing. I just don't like that round
That said, I also don't think the accuracy is there in many of the M44's I've seen.  I know it can be done and some rifles will shoot lights out, I just prefer others.

When you stop and think of it, just imagine how many game animals have fallen over the years to milsurp weapons, both in the US and Europe/Asia.  All the rounds mentioned are battle-proven warhorses.

[jmayton]

I've taken my mosin m44 scout hog hunting a few times.  I wouldn't hesitate to take a deer with it, or really anything else in the the lower 48.  However, accuracy wise, it's limited to about 200yds, but I can't shoot well much farther than that anyway.

[gstewart44]

SMLE - scoped- 303 Brit 150 gr reloads - taken one deer, three hogs......all dropped where I shot them.   

P-14 enfield - original sights-  303 Brit 150 gr reloads - two hogs, one coyote........bang/flop

I use these rifles from permanent stands as they are too long and heavy for stalking.   But both are deadly to what ever comes in front.   

[azmike]

I've taken my mosin m44 scout hog hunting a few times.  I wouldn't hesitate to take a deer with it, or really anything else in the the lower 48.  However, accuracy wise, it's limited to about 200yds, but I can't shoot well much farther than that anyway.

Sounds perfect, as I rarely see them further out than 100 yards where I'm living,  and sometimes within bayonet range (although they tend to leave in a hurry).

[azmike]

I've taken my mosin m44 scout hog hunting a few times.  I wouldn't hesitate to take a deer with it, or really anything else in the the lower 48.  However, accuracy wise, it's limited to about 200yds, but I can't shoot well much farther than that anyway.

Sounds perfect, as I rarely see them further out than 100 yards where I'm living,  and sometimes within bayonet range (although they tend to leave in a hurry).

Edited to add:  Not that I would ever use a bayonet.   If I get a M44, that's the first thing to go.

[fanner50]

My bad weather rifle is a Mosin 38. I have Dura-coated it from one end to the other. My own camo pat on the stock and Colt gray on the metal. I welded a turned down bolt on it did a homespun trigger job and added Mojo sights. It will kill anything I point it at. I shoot 150 gr Hornady .312 bullets over 44.5 gr of 4895. I have it set dead on at 200 yds and it will hold 4" with my old eyes at that range. Crono says 3050 fps with that load.What else do ya need?
JMHO - F50

[Cottage Hill Bill]

All of the cartridges that have been discussed here, in fact most military calibers over 6mm are adequate for most North American game, although the 6.5s might be a little light for stuff in the elk and moose range.

For a reason other than the cartridge I think that there are only a few that are suitable hunting candidates.  The best choices in my mind are the Lee-Enfield (No1 or No4), The P-14 or M-1917, any 98 Mauser variant, 1903 or 1903A. The reason is the way the safeties function. All of these rifles have safeties that can be easily and quietly disengaged. That means the safeties will get used.

The safety on Mosin-Nagants, Schmidt Rubins, Carcanos and Arisakas are difficult to use in a hunting situation, that means you are more likely to be carrying it with a round up the spout and the safety off, meaning an accident is more likely.

[woodchukhntr]

Cottage Hill Bill,

Congratualtions on being the latest GBO member!  Welcome aboard.

And a great post too!  I have to agree with you, the safetys on the other guns range from poor to horrible as far as ease of use.  They encourage the user to leave it off.  I wonder what the designers were thinking of when they designed them.  If I use my Mosin, I plan to use it where there is little reason to disengage it in a hurry.

[jmayton]

As for safeties, I hate that I can't loan out my Nagant.  I just don't want to put someone else (or me at the receiving end) of such a dangerous lack of safety.  I carry it with a round chambered, bolt closed, but uncocked (closed slowly with the trigger pulled).  Since its a cock-on-open, I simply have to cycle the bolt handle up and down to cock...or I could pull the cocking piece on the bolt I guess.  Its safe as long as the back of the bolt isn't banged on anything.  That's the best remedy that I can come up with.  I saw someone online that welds a ring to the back of the bolt to make the safety easier to operate, but I can't remember where I saw it.  You just send in your bolt, and they will do the work and send it back to you. 

[TribReady]

Welcome to the GB Forums Cottage Hill Bill!

The designers of the Mosin didn't really care too much for the safety aspect.  You can see from the Russian/USSR mindset regarding its own troops that safety/wellbeing was not a major concern. More importantly, the less moving parts and ease of cleaning,etc made the Mosin perfect for soldiers in Russia.  Given the simplicity, can still use when wet, muddy, freezing cold, dirty, etc when other weapons would jam or seize up.

As far as the 6.5mm rounds, thousands of elk/moose in Europe and Canada have fallen from them. I personally prefer larger, but the 6.5 is adequate for everything below Alaska.  In ALL cases, proper bullet selection and placement are key.

[Todd1700]

Call me strange but for all the fuss I see on the internet about the safety on a Mosin Nagant I have never found it to be that difficult to operate. Pull bolt knob back, turn to the left. Guns on safe. Reverse the procedure, guns ready to fire. Now granted it wouldn't be very quick to disengage if you were jump shooting animals at close range but for stand hunting from a treestand/shooting house or stalking in open country I don't see the problem.

[wncchester]

I got my first center fire in '64 and hunted with it for several years.  Had as much "luck" with it as anything since.  It was Springfield 03-A3 metal I placed in a cheap walnut sporter stock along with the original sights and trigger. 

I eventually converted it into a heavy barreled position target rifle after I got one of the first  Rem 700 Mtn. Rifles in 30-06.

[silver surfer]

  I hunted with my .303 Canadian LongBranch for years, if my oldest boy hadn't commandeered it after his first Boar hunt I would still use it .  The longest shots I ever took with it was a big doe at 430 measured yards and an Albino Turkey at 278 measured yards.  They will get the job done.  As the fall grows closer my blood heats up.  After I'm done "fatherin`" the boy I cant wait to use it again.

[trotterlg]

jmayton:  If you carry your M44 with the hammer decocked on a live round you are a very lucky SOB that you or someone esle isn't dead now!  The fireing pin on these things are directly connected to the hammer, the only thing holding back the fireing pin and hammer when it is decocked on a live round is the primer, this is a very stupid thing to do.  Before expermenting with things, you need to understand how the machine works.  Larry

[jmayton]

trotterlg,

so how much force does it take to fire a decocked M44?  wouldn't that still be safer than carrying it cocked with the safety off?

[trotterlg]

The fireing pin assembly including the hammer which is the cocking knob on the rear are all rigidly together, the screw you see in the center of the cocking knob is the rear of the fireing pin.  To see how much pressure is sitting on the primer just try pulling the knob straight back from the uncocked position.  My guess is 20 to 30 pounds.  If you can't use the crummy safety they have then carry it with the chamber empty.  Larry

[jmayton]

I'll chamber some primed brass and do some drop and impact tests....probably tonight....I'll let you know.  It may also depend on the primer and how hard or soft it is.  I know it's not the ideal situation, but so far it's worked ok....but thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[woodchukhntr]

The fireing pin assembly including the hammer which is the cocking knob on the rear are all rigidly together, the screw you see in the center of the cocking knob is the rear of the fireing pin.  To see how much pressure is sitting on the primer just try pulling the knob straight back from the uncocked position.  My guess is 20 to 30 pounds.  If you can't use the crummy safety they have then carry it with the chamber empty.  Larry

Thanks for bringing up this point, it may not be obvious to some, and is very dangerous.  Either carry it with the safety on or with no round in the chamber.  The safety is clumsy to use and probably takes as much effort as cocking the gun does anyway.

[jmayton]

I understand the mechanics of it now that I've looked at it more closely and you're right, the firing pin does rest on the primer, but that in and of itself doesn't make it want to go boom.  That pin needs some inertia behind it to do it's job.  I just tried to fire a piece of primed brass.  I chambered the round, decocked the gun and banged on the back of the bolt with my hand...nothing.  So, out comes the rubber mallet and again....nothing.  I didn't hit it extremely hard as I'm not in the habit of hitting my guns with hammers, but hard enough to simulate it being hit on a tree or the tailgate or something like that.  I had a dented primer, but not detonation.  So it makes me wonder it must have had the force necessary to dent the primer, but not enough speed (inertia) to do the job.

Now I really want to look into this more with different primers and see what happens.

[jmayton]

To see how much pressure is sitting on the primer just try pulling the knob straight back from the uncocked position.  My guess is 20 to 30 pounds. 

Btw, that doesn't make sense.  It takes maybe 20-30 pounds to cock the gun, then at that point there is 20-30 pounds ready to be released to detonate the primer.  Decocked, there are 0 pounds sitting on the primer.

But, I agree, it's still not the safest alternative.

[STUMPJMPR]

I'm not recommending you doing this....However I have had a few nagants in the past one i fitted a trigger orginaly designed for a mauser to it....I had to machine a new sear.. and improvise a way to mount it to the gun...I never had any problem with it but it only saw light use??? I'm not sure how it would hold up in the long run....The other thing I have done is disassemble the bolt and to grind and polish the hump that locks the cocking knob in the safe position so that it would only take a twist to put it on fire instead of pulling it back then twisting.....

[blackpowderbill]

Milsurps Ive taken afield.
  Swede M38 Husqvarna in 6.5x55
  Maltby No4 MkI in .303
  P1858 .577 riflemusket.....my normal hunting rifle.