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Author Topic: hunting with a surplus rifle  (Read 6877 times)

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Offline trotterlg

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2008, 04:17:01 PM »
Quote
Btw, that doesn't make sense.  It takes maybe 20-30 pounds to cock the gun, then at that point there is 20-30 pounds ready to be released to detonate the primer.  Decocked, there are 0 pounds sitting on the primer.

That isn't the way it works, take out the bolt and decock it, now see how much pressure it takes to push the fireing pin flush with the bolt head, my guess is you can't do it even with good sized punch or something else flat to push with, now imagine pushing that hard on a primer with a nail.  Larry
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Offline jmayton

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2008, 06:03:20 PM »
But static pressure doesn't make a primer detonate.  If that were the case, wouldn't they detonate when I primed my brass?  If I chamber a round and decock, there is no dent in the primer.  If I do the same, then hit the back of the bolt with a hammer I get a dented primer and no detonation. 

So, if I carry the rifle in this way, I can pull the trigger and it doesn't fire.  I can drop it or bang the muzzle into something and it doesn't fire.  I can even hit the back of the bolt and it doesn't fire.  So I'm interested to know how this is the firearm of death that should have killed me and my entire hunting party the first time I carried it and stumbled over a rock or brushed it against a bush?

However, I still don't loan it to anyone because of this little quirk.  I wonder if the spring could be lightened and still fire reliably.  This would make the safety much easier to operate....mine's so difficult it usually lifts the bolt when I engage it.
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2008, 06:09:17 PM »
God help you.  Larry
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Offline jmayton

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2008, 06:37:24 PM »
Obviously he does....but you're not being a help here.  If you want to convince me of anything, respond to my points.  You convince me of it and I won't carry it that way, but you haven't offered any convincing proof in light of my little experiment.  Say, "go try thus and so and you'll see what I mean." then believe me I'll go try what you say....unless it involves a loaded weapon pointed at me or anyone else or the distinct possibility of me or anyone else being seriously maimed, and I'll go try it and see.  I did an experiment based on what you said caused the weapon to be dangerous and did not come to the same conclusion. 

So the question really is, will a decocked M44 fire a chambered round?  In my test it did not.  But could it potentially fire?  Absolutely, but so could most weapons carried in this manner even if they have a floating firing pin.  If it has enough mass, a drop on the muzzle could cause it to fire. 

I can see how a butt-end drop could cause a decocked M44 to fire simply because of the mass of the round creating enough velocity to detonated the primer...and I'm not going to test that one....at least not right now.

So.....convince me.
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Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2008, 01:41:33 AM »
Its like carrying an old style revolver with the hammer down firing pin resting on a cartridge...Remember the old rule always carry one the chamber under the hammer empty....
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Offline jmayton

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2008, 03:29:14 AM »
Thanks stump....I see what you mean.
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Offline Nessmuk#1

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2008, 08:26:36 AM »
Not all primers are created equal.  Some take a lot less to make go bang than others.  This is a known fact as some primers are chosen by handloaders for rifles which have a firing pin strike off center, or lightly.  Others are made of heavier metal and resist primer puncture better.  Old, and likely to be found in old mil-surp ammo, corrosive primers can be very unstable.  Honestly, keep it on an empty, or safety on.
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Offline ftlupton

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2008, 12:29:37 PM »
One of my first deer was with 7.7 Ariska, then elk with a P-17 in 06 then antelope with same P-17. Small deer with 30-40 Krag(original military that I bought for $5 back in the 50's). All dropped within 50yds as I recall. Another deer with 6.5 Swede, and one with a 7mm 95 Mauser. Oh the good ole days, sand paper, hack saws, linseed oil, paper routes to get the Model 70, all good.
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Offline Saloon slug

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2008, 02:33:11 PM »
I take my SMLE No4 Mk1 out every chance I get. Using my 180gr handloads it has knocked down every thing I it has been pointed at as long as I did my part.
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Offline Rhino6

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2008, 02:52:57 PM »
My last deer was taken with my IHC M-1 Garand, 100 yards offhand.  I also hunt with my Remington 1903A3.  Also have various other types but
kind of partial to the first two, handloaded 150gr Hornadys behind a moderate load of IMR4064. 

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Offline single action

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2008, 04:03:47 PM »
I have used a #4 enfield for the last several years and have  killed several deer with it. All were 1 shot "bang flops".
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Offline dogsoldier0513

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2008, 05:37:11 PM »
NONE of the mil-surp bolt guns mentioned have 'hammers'.  Their firing pins are cammed back upon operating the bolt, and held in place by the sear portion of the trigger.  Also, as a general 'rule' primers require an impact velocity of 400fps to detonate.
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Offline mrbigtexan

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2008, 03:01:28 AM »
i have hunted with an enfield for several years. i now have a custom mauser chambered in .308 and i am loving it. they are both excellent firearms and are both sporterized. i shoot 180 gr. core lokt's  out of the enfield and 150 gr. federal power-shok out the mauser.
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2008, 03:23:36 AM »
I have hunted with,

Model 98K 8mm Mauser

Model 96 Swedish Mauser 6.5x55

Springfield M1A  308

AR15 6.8 SPC

I have taken many deer with the 8mm since it was my only rifle for years. I have taken a few deer with the M1A and currently go back and forth between that and the AR, which I have yet to bag with. These last two rifles may or may not be considered surplus since I bought them new.

Cheese
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Offline TribReady

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2008, 05:56:59 PM »
Cheese
I hunted quite a few years back in WI with a restocked,tricked out SKS. Not exactly a streamlined AR, but you get my point. You should have seen the lookon the face of this one kid hunting by a hay bale in the field behind me when I left the woods with that.  Probably like you'll get when most guys see the AR  :)

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Offline S.S.

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2008, 03:34:28 PM »
just gotta get that cosmoline stink off of them first. after that, most I have tried are suitable for hunting.
My current favorite is a 6.5 Jap. M38.
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Offline lil_hunter12

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2008, 03:21:46 PM »
i havent hunted with one yet but i am going to try coyotes with my sks in the morning.
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Offline kix

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2008, 05:29:15 AM »
  About 3 yrs. ago I bought  K98 from the now defunct Guns & Stuff for $179, not a hand pick, just send me one. I remember my mauser expert friend cringing when we opened the box- a '44 BYF, supposedly quality control was gone by then but the bore was excellent so I was happy. It was the typical RC, mismatched no's and the wrong (but in good shape) stock. I had it d&t'd for a Leupold one-piece base and mounted a 3x9 Leupold. As far as bolt clearance goes my 'smith simply but the bolt in a jig and shaved off a small part of the '"curve" in the bolt,worked perfectly and still retains the original shape. With the addition of a Timney trigger, 175 grain Sierra and 4350 it shoots much better than I can hold. So far it has accounted for a good size Tx. hog at 187 laser-ranged yds. and a 22# gobbler. I tend to rate rifles in two categories, accuracy and the "gaze factor", how long you can look at it while admiring it's beauty, uniqueness, etc. Out of the many rifles I own my K98 wins hands down in the gazing department.  Kix
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Offline 454Puma

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2008, 06:40:44 PM »
I have my G98/40 and I've worked up a load 180gr Nosler BT at about 2370 fps! Don't need or want a full tilt load as I'll not be shooting past 200 yards with open sites! Most all my shots on deer haven't been much past 100 yards anyway.  I like getting close!   ;D  Should put the deer on the ground just nicely.
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Offline cbxboy

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2008, 05:12:29 AM »
After skimming through many of the comments posted I have come to my answer.  I want you to hunt with the milsurp you are confident can hit your intended target WHERE you intend to hit it.  Cartridge n my opinion has little to do with this.  By a cheap gun and spend $100 on ammo...you'll learn where it hits.  Shooting a rifle 20 times does not matter in my opinion....your just warming to its character at that point.

That said I have walked afield with Hakim, SKS, Saiga, M44, M38 (mosin) K-31, K-11 (in .308) Turk Mauser, M48A, M48, VZ-24, 96 Swede and a few others.  Not many kills but tha tis not because I wouldn't have made the shot.....I'm just a crappy hunter :D  I would not heitate at all with any of these if I am sitting in a stand and  deer approach.  I have sat with the rifle up ready to go and never had the "shot" I needed to be confident in bringing it to the table.  Maybe I'm too picky??  Nah, I just don't like dragging after a long track ;)
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Offline ted65

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2008, 07:29:15 PM »
Back to point, they use mosin's for bear hunting in russia. The 7.62 x 54R is more powerful than the 308 and an elk should be no problem out to several hundred yards, given you can make the shot. With the right ammo, it's quite able indeed.
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Offline TribReady

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2008, 04:53:41 AM »
Just about any milsurp will be more than adequate for hunting.  Know your range and use good bullets. 

ted65 talked about bears in russia. Just think how many game animals have been taken by Mosins, Enfields, German mausers.  In this country, all those rifles plus Krags, M1's, Springfields....
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Offline 351 power

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2008, 04:25:23 PM »
hope to take a deer this fall with my .303
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Offline PigBoy Crabshaw

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2008, 05:35:15 PM »
I agree about the saftey aspect of the Nagants. I would not trust them in the field marching with a hot death stick up the pipe. It kinda gives me the creeps chambering a single round on a bench, but never had an issue. I own a few of them ranging form M91 - M91/30 - M44. There quite accurate for me open site at 50 or 100 yard. I'm not sure I'd hunt beyond 50 yards with open sites.
The power of a 7.62x54 will punch through a man hole cover at 100 yards with fmj no problem.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2008, 06:54:12 AM »
I had a large military rifle collection for a while and hunted on the farm with most of them.
M1 Garand, Enfield No4, Mauser 98 Gew, 98K, Siameese Mauser, Swede 96, and a Krotchopek 1886 have all gone into the woods after deer.
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Offline Troyboy

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2008, 01:15:36 PM »
All these surplus rifles were designed to kill the most dangerous predetor of all. The deer does not stand a chance if you do your part. That said the enfields have the smooth action that make it my favorite.

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Offline Steve P

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2008, 09:23:27 AM »
M96 6.5x55.  Taken several deer and will get the nod again this coming weekend.
With proper bullets and loading, most of the Mil Surp rifles will tackle anything in the lower 48 and most in AK.

Steve  :)
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Offline lrs

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2008, 01:25:28 PM »
I took my garand hog hunting day before yesterday.   Did not get a shot at anything, but located a promising spot.  And it was gratifying to carry this rifle into the woods.
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Offline kiddekop

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2008, 06:57:24 AM »
Quote from: lrs on October 07, 2008, 01:25:28 PM
I took my garand hog hunting day before yesterday.   Did not get a shot at anything, but located a promising spot.  And it was gratifying to carry this rifle into the woods.
I hunted Colorado Mule Deer successfully with my Garand using the reloading data from the March 1986 American Rifleman article "Reloading for the M1 Rifle"(if anyone wants a copy of the article send me your email it's an excellent article) 165gr Nosler Ballistic Tip,47.5gr of IMR 4895,CCI LR Primer in Denver '42 & '43 mil surplus brass.I had added a Dean Alley #65 Redfield  Globe Front with integral base standard dovetail with inserts .316" high to my garand & used it with my rear sight at approx 300 yards to drop the deer .Brownell's still sells the sight  Part # 034--200-001.
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Offline lrs

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Re: hunting with a surplus rifle
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2008, 08:22:38 AM »
Since that post I went back, and did shoot a boar hog.  Pretty good size hog, we figured 150 - 170 lbs.
I have eaten 1 ham and about 1/4 rack of ribs.  Turn out great.
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