USS Liberty...08 June 1967

[TM7]

The latest news on the Liberty, the Navy spook ship attacked by Israel on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War, is that recently released National Security Agency documents are backing up what many -- including the survivors of Liberty -- have been saying for 40 years: that Israel knew full well that it was attacking -- with aerial strafing, napalm and torpedoes -- an American vessel
.
Senator Mccain's father was instrumental in the hush up of the whole incident,  and there is chatter that the event may hit the campaign trail discussions.  Below is a wikipedia link to the event which happened yesterday in 1967.  Note that those on board the Liberty claim the attack was premediated to this day. The attack represents the lynchpin shift in American ME foreign policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident


...TM7

[powderman]

Israel was at war, and we were spying, we got caught. They didn't know who we were spying for and didn't trust us. Wish it hadn't happened, but it did. We were warned to stay away, we didn't. They could have sunk the ship with all aboard, they didn't. Probly Bushs fault. POWDERMAN. 

[torpedoman]

All ships are free to use international waters and the liberty was in international waters as was the pueblo (n. korea incident) nothing was done to punish either country for their acts, so get off the favoring the jews theme. As a retired sailor who was real close to the liberty at the time i find both actions disgusting on the part of washington.

[ironglow]

 Reading your Wiki account, it does indeed appear that the USS Liberty may well have been a "friendly fire' incident. In our entiure history with Israel, there has been one
  really bad incident..and that may well have been friendly fire..we just don't know. In any case that was in 1967..and every possible chance they get Muslim symnpathizers dredge up this old, worn out story.
   Let's look at later events..the muslims attacked and killed 3,000 innocent civilians on 9/11..and since then there have been over 11,000 vicious, devilish attacks by Muslims,
  spanning the whole globe.
  Even if the Israelis are guilty of the Liberty attack (which is doubted)..it is about equal to the USS Cole attack, and there is no doubt that was deliberate..so since that time the Muslims have out terrorized the Israelis more than 11,000 to 1 ..

[powderman]

A 2 hour attack with torpedo boats and they didn't sink it??? Sounds like a real serious attack. Had they wanted it sunk, it would have been sunk. Get real. That was over 40 years ago, a lot has changed, get over it.
You didn't drag this up to honor the crew of the Liberty, just to stir the pot, you're an expert at that. Anything to slam America, president Bush, or Israel. What better way to cause trouble  than by pitting us against them. Get a life. I'm going to work now. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

 TM;
  I know you think the Muslim terrorists are just a bunch of fraternity guys having a blast, but the rest of us don't see it quite that way !
   
     See...      www.thereligionofpeace.com/  this website has kept a good score and good documentation as to Muslim terrorism...

    If you look in the left hand column, there is a running score of Muslim terrorist attacks since 9/11..Does it say 11,237 since the WTC attacks ?

[woodchukhntr]

A firiend of mine was aboard the Liberty on June 8, 1967.  From his acount and all others that I have heard, there is no doubt that Israel attacked the ship. The question is why the ship was not sunk.  I cannot believe that the Israelies were so incompetent as to not sink an unarmored ship with the assets that they used!  I have seen gunsight camera shots of Japanese ships sunk by American fighters armed with just .50 caliber machine guns.

I do not condone the attack, nor do I understand the reason for it.  Apparently someone in the U.S. government did, or we would have been at war with Israel.  But we never went to war with N. Korea over the Pueblo or attacks on U.S. troops at the DMZ either.

[ironglow]

Woodchkhntr;
     The fact that we did not go to war over one incident is not unusual..The cuban AF shot private planes down, the Soviets shot down a full airliner near Sakhalin island,
  just to get congressman Macdonald. Numerous incidents on the Korean DMZ and just a few short years ago, the Chinese forced down via a "collision" with a Chinese jet fighter
   (to their airfield) one of our intelligence gathering planes and wouldn't let us have it back before they had stripped the equipment..then they made us DISASSEMBLE the plane
  in order to bring it away from Chinese territory.
     Remember the Achille Lauro, hijacked planes given safe haven in Syria etc.

   The terrorism score still stands (extrapolating back the 40 years, at probably 15,000 to 1 ..Muslims vs Israel..   15,000 excuses to go to war with "someone' if we were bound to do so...

[petemi]

I was in communications on COMSTRIKFORSOUTH Staff in Naples, Italy, the NATO staff for the U.S 6th Fleet, on that date.  We received a Top Secret Flash priority message from the Liberty stating she was under attack by unidentified aircraft.  I believe all of us assumed it was Egypt.

To the best of my knowledge, the Liberty was monitoring both Arab and Israeli communications.  The Israelis were broadcasting disinfomation messages stating they were barely holding their own, when in fact they were rapidly advancing toward the Suez Canal.  They were afraid of outside intervention before they could secure the canal.  The Liberty knew what was going on, and therefore had to go.  I believe the order came from very high up.

[petemi]

TM, to answer your question, I sincerely believe the Israelis wanted to sink the ship with no survivors so the blame could be placed on the Arabs.  That is why they attacked the men on deck and the lifeboats.  You don't launch torpedoes at a ship not intending to sink it.

[woodchukhntr]

Petemi,

As I stated before, I cannot believe that the Israelies were so incompetent as to not sink an unarmored ship with the assets that they used!  Planes and torpedo boats, and they could not sink the Liberty?

[petemi]

Perhaps the people assigned to the job really didn't want to do it.

[woodchukhntr]

That, my friend, is an excellent suggestion!  It probably didn't do a thing for their careers, but probably saved a lot of American lives.

[petemi]

I'm also sure they believed there had to be some Jewish sailors aboard the Liberty as well.

I forgot to mention securing the Golan Heights as one of their primary objectives in the war.  Someone else did, thank you.

[quickdtoo]

The USS Liberty was built in 1945, started life as a civilian cargo ship, the Simmons Victory.

Tim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_%28AGTR-5%29

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-l/agtr5.htm

[Graybeard]

I've not looked it up and since my interest in this long ago event is marginal at best I likely will not but...

Yesterday when Matt was over we were discussing this thread. He made the comment that the then sitting US President is on record via teletype as saying to sink the ship in other words his comment to me was that the sinking was ordered by the sitting US President with orders to be carried out by the Israeli's in order to have a pretext to blame it on the muzlims.

Knowing what I do of the folks in charge of running our government I have no real reason to doubt that such an order might have been given. If so it certainly would explain the cover up that followed and lack of pursuit of the issue by the US. Anyone who believes the folks running this government are on the side of US citizens is merely fooling themselves. They report to and care for a vastly different master than the people of the US we have become mere pawns on the chess board that is world politics these days. Politicians have as their masters the rich and super rich and they are bought and paid for in full by these folks and their bidding not the bidding of the citizens of this nation is what all the politicians are doing. It will remain so unless and until they are over thrown by force and replaced by a new group who actually believe in the US Constitution they are sworn to uphold. I for one don't believe that will happen in my life time and doubt it will happen within the life time of my children and likely not even in the life time of my grand children. Nope I think it will take many years of really abject poverty and hardship to convince a large enough group of folks that things must change and that the change can only come about the way this nation was established in the first place by force.

It is way past time to dust off the Declaration of Independence and begin anew but until such time as the majority of citizens (most likely by then subjects not citizens) see that can it begin. Quite honestly at this time unless the military joined the revolt it could never succeed anyway. No I think we're 100 or more years away from people being ready to take up arms and retake their country from the elite super rich who now own and control it. Seeing where we are heading makes me glad I'm an old fart with not many years left to have to endure what is to come. Actually I'm hoping the folks predicting the end in 2012 are right this time.

[ironglow]

  GB;
  Understood; ...Whether one looks at the 2012 date by the Aztec calendar or by the Biblically prophetic utterances, it doesn't look like it can be far off..
  2012 sounds about as right as any, even though there is no way I would even pretend to know any precise year or date; namely because we are not supposed to..

[Hooker]

Actually consciousness is Truth in progress.

...TM7

Some how that statement gives me this image of you snorting incense eating tofu doing yoga in flowered pajamas.

Pat