Book Burnings other Anti Christian actions

[TM7]

Book burnings, sezing burning the NT, church burnings, anti-christian intimidation is on going but not reported here in the USA.......TM7

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/985362.html

[powderman]

Anti Christian?? You would know about that, cause it goes on right here.  POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

Sounds pretty provocative on the part of the Christians to me.  Like when that bunch of Southern Baptist went out to a Mormon convention in SLC Utah and passed out tracts. 

Can you imagine what would happen if a bunch of Jews went door to door in Kneejerkville, GA telling them that Jesus was only a prophet, not the Saviour. I think the Jews, and the Mormons for that matter, showed considerable restraint. 

What about you, P-man. If one of those Godless, sub-human Jews came to your door with a tract and wanted to discuss with you his belief that his religion believed that Jesus was a bibical prophet but not THE Son Of God and THE True Saviour and the True Saviour was yet to come, would you invite him in for a discussion of your differing beliefs?  Would you take his tract and read it carefully?  Would you offer him a cool drink of water? Would you lovingly present your arguments and use this as an opportunity to sway him to your beliefs and make him a "completed Jew" as they are called?

[GRIMJIM]

That's what I got out of it too. Those Christians went and tried to convert people to their religion. Who are they to tell someone their religion is wrong. Look at the flak that goes on when muslims try to convert people, but since it's Christians it's okay.

[BAGTIC]

"...now I truly realize...the United States is no longer a Christian country...if it ever was......."

The U.S.A. never was as 'Christian' country. The founders made it clear from the beginning. America was established as a secular country free from all religious establishmentarianism.

[beemanbeme]

Don't get carried away with yourself, TM7. Even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. 

[powderman]

BEEMANBEME. I would welcome them to my home for  discussion of various things. Not my fault they quit reading the Bible too soon. I don't consider Jews Godless or subhuman, they are Gods chosen ones. You confuse the Jews with the Godless ones, errrrrr, the muzzies. Seems that tm can find more trash than the local garbage collectors. He's just full of anti Israel crap, really full of it. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  I too would like to discuss their take on such things..certainly with a Jew..one of God's chosen. I worked with a young, Jewish man a while before I retired, and have long wanted a
    copy of the Talmud. My friend saw to it that I received a copy before retirement. There is a lot of wisdom contained therein..written by some very wise men..
   
    Many of we Evangelicals are all in favor of free exchange in the marketplace of ideas. I have talked with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and Bhuddists along with the
   old hare Krishnas etc. I would not want any kangaroo law enacted to curtail their 1st amendment rights, and I am sure they believe the same.
   Surely, most Americans believe in the "free exchange" idea, do they not ?
     
   The fact is, the only ones that i have found that wish to curtail free exchange or limit the 1st amendment were unbelievers, or members of "dead" churches, where
  the Gospel is not preached, ...or Muslims.
      It is indeed interesting to note that the first oine to want laws enacted to curb free speech, are often those that boast of being "tolerant' and "open minded" etc,etc..

   Funny; ..isn't it !

[beemanbeme]

TM, for you to tell someone else to knock off the "cryptic speak" is cause for one to ROFLMAO!!

Am I outraged that Jews in Israel burned the NT?  No, not at all.  Had they burned the folks handing out the NT, I would have been some upset but not too.  As those folks knowingly put themselves in harms way. They selected that task knowing, perhaps hoping, that they might become some sort of martyr.

My take on the whole thing, and this extends to the big flaps over the Koran in Afghanistan, is, in my hands, because of my rearing and beliefs, the Bible becomes a Holy Document, THE word of God.  In the hands of a pagan or a non-Christian, it is just a book.  It's like Dorthy's red shoes, the magic is in my mind. If you buy a Bible and that Bible is printed by a company that employees Godless, sub-human Mooslums and such, that doesn't mean the Bible is any less powerful in your hands.

So what happens if Israel decides to forbade taking any copies of the NT into their country?  All copies would be taken at customs.  Christians from around the world, visiting the Holy Lands, would have the comfort of their Bibles taken away because of the actions of a few knee-jerk hot dogs. Either that or be turned away.

IG, everytime I have just about decided that you are a reasonable, intelligent person, you make a remark like the one where you say that the fundamentalist Christians are open-mnded and tolerant and I ROFLMAO and put you back into you know who's bracket. 

[ironglow]

TM;
  You are so right ! A few radicals in Israel get all wroght up, go after some Christians and burn their books....you are absolutely correct, it was a terrible crime,
  although there is no indication that the Israeli govt was in favor of that action.
   Perhaps the Jews should be extremely tolerant..like the Muslim nations that surround them...you can bet they would never burn a Bible or hurt
  either a Christian or a Jew...

[woodchukhntr]

" Whoa...that is really effed up." ..TM7

TM7,

If you want to say something to stress your point, just come out and say it, don't hide behind your "cryptic speak" if you are afraid or  ashamed to say it.

[ironglow]

  We all saw those Palestinian idiots burning Joseph's tomb and the authorities obviously approved, or they would have driven them off ! Then too, we have no
   doubt what would have happened to any Christian or Jew that stood there and questioned their actions..
 
   We all saw the Iranian govt assist and approve of a bunch of radical terrorists who took our whole embassy staff captive..

  We know about the special tax placed upon people of other faiths.

  We patiuently observed the Palestinian troops "trash" the Church of the Nativity..suppose the Israeli occupied the dome on the rock;
  would the Muslims be so patient ?
 
    We know that Christians are actively evangelizing in Israel, they can't even do that in muslim Indonesia or Nepal..say nothing about about Iran, Saudi Arabia or
  Palestine..

   Let's not pretend that "all things are equal"..

[powderman]

IG. YEP. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

Tm and IG, what are you wanting? Some sort of tit for tat exchange?  Them thar Godless, sub-human mozlims do hurts some of them Christians so's we'uns get to do somethin' back at them.  And I never did like them money-grubbin' Jews so's I don't think it's right that they can run their country to suit themselves. We'uns is Christians don'tchaknow.  
Tm, would you suggest we start a Holy War over the burning of some NT's?  In Israel?   Maybe a nuke or two.  Would that satisfy you? I don't know but maybe freedom of religion or freedom FROM religion isn't a basic right in Israel.  Let's look at the other side of the coin. Let's go back to Kneejerkville, Ga, where freedom of religion is a guarantee under the Bill of Rights, and Ahbugolly and his crew hand out copies of the Koran to all the populations.  What do you reckon is gonna happen when the Most Holy High Supreme Right Reverend Billy Bob Cooter of the First Evangelical Church of The Pure Bible Reading is gonna say when he takes to his pulpit?  Do you think he is gonna council love and understanding like P-man suggested?  Or do you think the few Godless, sub-human muzzlim survivors will flee town with the backs of their heads streaming?  

You say I can't take a middle road.  Why not?  As a Christian, I find it a full time job keeping my own act cleaned up without answering the call of every chicken little that hollers.  And I would council my fellow Christians to let those Jews tend to Jew business.  We don't need to be over there in the capacity that those folks were.  There are enough Christians right here at home that need to be shined up that you don't have to go far to find plenty of evangelical work right here.

IG, "when we saw those Godless, sub-human Palestinian idiots burn Joseph's tomb we can assume the authorities approved of their actions."  Is it then logical to assume that the City of Los Angeles approved of the Watts Riots?  What about Detroit?  

[ironglow]

Beeman;
  It is indeed, difficult to folow the thought pattern of your first paragraph. I know lots of folks from WV, and they don't seem to struggle so much with the language...
   Sorry; couldn't resist that one !
 
   ..But please note: In your last line you used the terms Godless and sub-human..those terms are totally your own. My point being that you are trying by hyperbole,
  to paint a false picture of what I am communicating to this forum !
  As far as the rioters in Detroit, Watts or the West Bank..they are all idiots..who else would voluntarily destroy their own home town ? The reason I believed that
   the Palestinian authorities approved of such assinine actions is because unlike Detroit or Watts, the frenzied rioters were not a city-wide pheonomenon. On the
  contrary, they were located in a very small, localized area..around and atop Joseph's tomb. They could have beeen stopped within 10 minutes, but the destruction
  went on (in view of the whole world) for hours. Law enforcement in Detroit and LA had a bit more difficult task, because of sheer size.

   The godless and sub-human terms..answer with your own thought processes...We see a group of international fanatics that specifically bomb pizza parlors, day care
  centers, weddings, public markets..the same take people captive and then behead them..often after prolonged torture. Do you think the terms godless and
   sub-human are totally out of place in describing the nature and activities of these prople ?
         
            Of course, they may not be truly godless..it is just a question of the true nature of whatever god they worship...

[beemanbeme]

TM7, Please admit that you are a not so closet anti Israel type.  I don't know if you are an actual covert Jew basher or not since you say you're married to a Jew.  I would say it takes a pretty damn faithful Jew to stand eyeball to eyeball day end and day out 24/7 with a bunch of frenzied Arabs on a bit of ground that was deemed pretty damned worthless UNTIL THE JEWS SETTLED THERE.  I think they can be excused a bit of paranoia. I daresay they conform to "our" way of thinking a lot closer than some of our other allies around the world.  One would think we have a good deal of influence on them because of the large population of Jews in America.  Quite like Rome and the large number of Roman Cathali cs here. Back to your complaint, why don't you take a few Neo-Nazis with the leather vests and the swastikas tattooed on their foreheads and go down to Harlem and hand out some tracts.  You know, First Amendment and all....  I'm sure Rev Wright will safeguard you............. (and if they bothered you, let's cut off their welfare, hee hee) 

Sorry IG if you didn't understand my first paragraph. I was trying to phonetically replicate the speakings of an Honours Grad from the Whole Truth Bible College. I'll try to be more obtuse next time.
If you will recall, it was you friend and fellow zealot, Powderman, that first ascribed to himself the puffery to defile and debase an entire race of people, an entire religion as "Godless and sub-human". He has since professed to be the repository of "decency" and "morality" and "True Christian Values". Yet when I have asked him to describe those values so we poor unwashed could work toward his perfection, he has stood mute and we have continued to be lost. But he continues to call names and give derogatory titles like dyke and queer to folks that don't match his perfection.  And, Oh Lord, spout Bible verses. Like a Bibical Barbie doll with an evangelical string hanging out of his back (and you don't do bad yourself).  And, of course, if anyone disagrees with him, they are "anti-Christian".  It's an automatic out no matter how stupid or mean-minded the idea, like if you don't vote for Hussein, you're a racist, if you don't vote for Rodham, you're a sexist, etc.
So you see, "Godless and sub-human" was not my coin. But since I am a Christian, I feel entitled to use it. No matter how inappropriate it is. Isn't that what being a Christian is all about?  Learning about 10 or so one-liners that prove whatever you want or justify whatever life style you want to live and then you get to feel superior to other folks? You get to defile and debase them. You get to take sound bytes and snippets out of the context of their lives and make them into monsters?  If you took select lines and phrases from the Bible, you could come up with a pretty terrible document. Carefully edited, you could make Jesus out to be a bad person.  Those money changers were just trying to make a living don'tchaknow.
Also, I resent be called, "anti-Christian".  I may not be the perfect Christian that you and P-man are but in my own quiet way, I don't do too bad. I'm happy with myself. I'm not a "running scared" Christian like P-man has confessed to being.  If I do a something good, I do it because it seems the thing to do. I don't have any big-time, philosophical debate with myself: "oh, will God love me if I do this?, Am I gonna get points in Heaven? Will my neighbors think I'm moral, decent, God fearing?" I just do it.  P-man has admitted that he does good acts because he is afraid of what will happen if he doesn't.
I was talking to a businessman a couple of weeks ago and I explained to him that an employee shouldn't have to work to company standards.  He felt this was a paradox until I explained that on being hired, the employee should read the company mission and after that if he didn't satisfy the company's standards while satisfying his own, he was in the wrong job or wrong position.  That's kinda how I feel about my Christianity.  I don't KNOW the Bible. I can't rip you out a verse to justify any kind of meanness I want to do, but I UNDERSTAND the Bible. And I am not afraid.
 I kinda wisht Hooker would hang out in here more, He seemed to KNOW the Bible and UNDERSTAND the Bible.

[LHitchcox]

Sadly, I know a few preachers who are for book burning. Of course, they get to choose which books. I guess we all think we are right and everyone else is entitled to our opinion.

Leon

[beemanbeme]

TM7 I am not intrigued by your wife at all.  Except in the context that if she has stood by your side for 29 years that you must have a side never seen in cyberspace.  And if she is indeed Jewish, I daresay the Prots will be willing to make an exception and a canonization committee is gathering even as we speak. 
Because of my rustic environment and limited capacity, for understanding's sake, I do wish you would drop about 90% of the superfluous adjectives and made-up words. And too, the constant reference to connecting the dots. As best I know, that's a game for children. Small children at that. Or does this mean I am supposed to make an argument for you that you can't make yourself  -- without a link to some other verbose tinfoil hatted wacko-- Finally, what little credence you have isn't enhanced but your overt rudeness.  What makes you think I get a government check? 

[powderman]

BEEMANBEME. You lost me, I don't understand how I do good deeds cause I'm afraid not to. 
I call them Godless because they seem to worship a hateful, vengeful, unforgiving God, cause thats what their false prophet mohamed taught them. God is a loving, forgiving, and caring God. Since there is only one God, the God they worship does not exist, therefore, they are Godless. In most cases even human is debatable for these scum. As far as tms wife goes, she may have Jewish parents, but if she were REALLY a Jew, she'd kill him in his sleep. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

Your words, not mine, Powderman.  I could look it up but I ain't. It was an exchange between you and Kev, if I remember correctly.
 "I, thy God, am a jealous God and will have no others before me."  Does that sound familar?  Wonder what it means?  Is it secret Bible talk for "loving and caring"?  I'm glad you explained that to me or I'd of thought it meant "if you go messin' around with Baal or Ra or any of that bunch, I'll rip your head off and put it where the sun don't shine!" 

Tm7, is it really, really parting advise?  Really?  Well, you take care now and if you're ever in West Virginia, I live in the brown trailer with the cardboard in the front window and the 57 chevy up on blocks in the front yard.  You stop in and see me.  Blow you horn first so's I can put the dogs up. They don't take to strangers. Especially the ones with tinfoil hats.
 Oh, BTW, according to IG, you're supposed to only list the Bible verses. You're not supposed to list them and quote them also. You zealots maybe need to start talking to one another so as not to confuse us unwashed.  I'm glad you did however as I don't do links nor look up bible verses.

[ironglow]

 Beeman;
  Remember that little ditty by Mearns that I posted about seeing "a little man that wasn't there". Your lengthy description of myself, my opinions and motivations, make
    me feel much like that little man..simply because that man you painted..simply isn't here.
  Occasionally I use Scripture verses, but most often it is just and attempt at correcting a misuse or misunderstanding of those verses (IMO). I have trained and studied
  the Scriptures for many years and often feel moved to correct any misperceptions (IMO)..and I believe we still are entitled to opinions here.
    
    If I were a Veterinary and someone tried to say that rabies was passed only through infected blood..I would be moved to clarify.
   Being a blacksmith, if someone on this forum tried to say a forged blade is hardened by bringing it to austinetic heat and then letting it cool in vermeculite for 24 hours...I would feel
  obliged to tell them that such would have the opposite effect ! Such is what I am doing in applying the Scriptures.
   As far as your insinuations that Powderman and myself somehow feel "superior" to other folks, speaking for myself (although I believe PM would agree), nothing could be further from
  the truth ! I am nothing but a SINNER..saved by grace ! I have enough trouble for myself dealing with the world, the flesh and the Devil..so I shall not badger anybody else on a
   personal level, concerning their struggles with sin.
 
   When a question of whether a particular activity is approved of by God, I may well quote verses..as much to remind myself as to inform others. For instance; if the subject of alcoholic
  drinks comes up I may quote Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging and whosoever is deceived thereby, is not wise."  Or in the recent years we have the rising
   "gay" population.If inquiry is made as to God's view of such activity, I may cite or quote all or part of.. Romans 1:16-32..
    Doesn't mean anyone must heed me or even believe me..but if God's word says certain things..perhaps, just perhaps..it is worth further inquiry...
         
    You do seem to have a problem with Christians that feel moved to carry out the "great commission". Perhaps you have met someone that wouldn't take "NO" for an answer..
  That can be irritating and exasperating and I regret that some are that way. ...But then again; perhaps you have heard the Gospel and are still " kicking against the pricks"  ( Acts 26:14).
       
     In any case, if you think there is some sort of "eliteism" on my part, forget it ! No such a problem exists..Just as Jesus implied and I agree..here's truth..you can take it or leave it...
   totally your choice..wouldn't dream, of forcing anything upon anybody !

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. And again, good post Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

TM7, "flower in a crannied wall,/ I pulled you from your cranny./ If I could know you./Roots and all, all in all./ I'd know what God and man is."  As you know, I'm sure, lil Bobby Burns wrote that. I ponder it when I work in my garden. It helps me take my mind off all the conspiracies looming over me.

IG.  Your piety is admirable?  Have you ever read "Holy Wilie's Prayer"?  Good ole Robert Burns wrote it. It may not have been permitted in your school but should be readidly available on the net or any public library or high school with the complete works of Robert Burns.

[ironglow]

   

  " And wad some pow'r the giftie gie us;
      to see oursels as ithers see us.
  t'wad from mony a blunder free us;
    'An a foolish notion..."

    ...Robert Burns ( Ode to a Louse)
     
    I also enjoy Robert Burns and already have his collected works..however, I can see by your sarcasm that
   even though I gave you a complete explanation in my last post...you still don't "get it"..
   Youy may want to try the complete works of Matthew Henry, Josephus and Spurgeon..to repair your deficiencies..

[beemanbeme]

What deficiencies are you talking about?  MY deficiencies??  Would you list them for me?  And explain how they are deficiencies.  I know I have a lot but I'd like to see if my list matches up with your list.  Now we're talking about real world deficiencies. Not some imagined deficiencies dreamed up by a thumper 'cause I don't walk lock-step with Rev Billy Bob's talkin's down at the meeting house. And maybe your partner can give me a lesson in morality, and true Christian values, and, oh yes, tolerance. 

Sorry, I think I get it very well.  Thus my reference to Holy Willie's Prayer.  Perhaps you are the one that doesn't get it. 

[ironglow]

Beeman;
  Your "deficiencies' are trying to read into my character, traits that do not exist. Taking a few sentences and thinking you have the whole composite of an individual,
  in my view is a deficiency. You assert words to myself such as I never use..we'uns, Billy Bob, donchaknow etc.. all hyperbole, all attempts to discredit .   
   
  Now; I could go off on a rant accusing you of being a sixties "flower child', complete with tie-dyed shirts and a large safety pin with which to hold a "roach".

   Perhaps I could accuse you of being a Marxist; ready to lash those "reactionaries" into line..or a nihilist, carrying matches, firebombs and tinder, in the same way you openly
 try to relegate myself into some convenient, unlettered troglodite...and you are the one that speaks of "ad hominem attacks ?

   I won't accuse you of any of those things, I just don't know enough about you from the few posts we read here...To read in that kind of "color" and attach it to you
    would be unfair in the extreme, and lower my credibility in any of my posts..
  As a man that does believe in a living God, I recognize the old familiar attacks upon myself as those often perpetrated by some of those who, still in the rejection..
   try to belittle those that hold these truths. Intimating that they are somehow less intelligent, and less literate than themselves. They do this rather than to directly
  refute contentions by scholarship. I don't know if that is where you are at, but that type of refusal to debate is again, clearly an "ad hominem" attack ! It is a form of
  elitism in itself..and as with most elitism, it is based on some type of mutually shared distain, hatred or envy, rather than any real merit ! Not so much a superior intellect,
    as   an argumentative one!
  As I said previously, I do not and cannot know, exactly where you are at..so if that particular shoe does not fit; you are not obliged to wear it !

[beemanbeme]

IG, sorry, I had a child that was a 60's child.  And otherwise you are well off the mark also.  I did work at a job for 40 years where I had to judge and evaluate people with short contacts and interactions.  I was so good at it that my company had me cut training films and I taught classes and seminars.

You opened your post with a long list of mean, nasty thing you COULD call me, but were gonna be a nice guy and wouldn't do it.  Smart move.  Calling me a Marxist is right up there with calling me an Anti-Christian. I spent my time in the Marine Corp. Where did you spend your service to America.   

The phonetic wording, meant in fun, making a parody of Billy Bob's unlettered utterances may not have been misplaced.  The word is "me"  as in "you shouldn't make fun of Powderman and me". Not "you shouldn't make fun of Powderman and myself".  Folks that use "myself" in place of "me" are usually folks with poor educations or TV talking heads or other folks of little consequence that want to appear more educated than they are. 

Your oblique attacks tell quite a bit about your "character".  "As a man that does believe in a living God, I  recognize the old familiar attacks on [/i] myself(there's that word again) " Pretty blatant statement that "I" don't believe in God.  And the rest of your post is merely another verse of Holy Willie's Prayer where by inference you puff yourself up as having the inside track and the only path to God and anyone that doubts you is pretty dumb. Had I read your post to some of our 6th grade drop outs, they would have thought that myself talked pretty good but if any of them had hacked out a few 3's and 6's in Eng Lit, they would have seen it as a pretty transparent attempt at self aggrandizment. And they would have cringed at your repeated use of myself instead of me.   

As I told TM7, if he has been married for 29 years, he must have a side that he doesn't show in cyberspace.  I'll say the same to you.  You chastise me for rating you based on your posts.  What other yardstick do I have?  And, for that matter, you are doing no different.  You're certainly no more tolerant. 

It's kinda nice, after all these years of retirement, to see my BS detectors are still working quite well.   When are you gonna teach your little buddy to jump in the air and holler "Ze plane, Boss, Ze plane,"?

FYI, I'm done with this.  If you want to respond, I'll be glad to read it but I'm posted out on this thread.  I'm sure you and the rest of the gang are glad. 

 

[ironglow]

    As you saidf, it is difficult to make firm conclusions from just a few posts..that is why we should best refrain from same.
  I am also done with this repartee to nowhere..FYI..service time ..Army..tanker.. It's my Grandson that is a Marine ..platoon Sgt. 2X Iraq (spec ops)