Traditions 1-20 Twist

[tn_junk]

just picked up a dirt cheap Traditions (stainless and camo stock) .45 caliber in line with a 1-20" Twist barrel.
Anybody have any experience shooting one of these?

alan

[vabowhntr]

Not that model, but I have a .45 with a 1:20 twist.  It likes heavy conicals and 240 gr 40 cal bullets in 45 cal sabots.  Both shoot really tight groups at 50 yards.  I haven't tried it much further as that would be a long shot where I use it. 

[AndyHass]

The reason all manufacturers quit making the 1-20 twist .45s (most had one for 1-2 years) is that they are INCREDIBLY finicky.  That particular combination of caliber and twist shoots almost nothing well.  It was supposed to allow for the shooting of long-for-caliber saboted bullets, but did not work out that way.

I am aware of many first-hand reports from 4-5 years ago when these guns came out that reported their frustration; many sent back to the manufacturer for replacement with 1-28 twists.  Traditions wouldn't do that for you though.

[tn_junk]

The reason all manufacturers quit making the 1-20 twist .45s (most had one for 1-2 years) is that they are INCREDIBLY finicky.  That particular combination of caliber and twist shoots almost nothing well.  It was supposed to allow for the shooting of long-for-caliber saboted bullets, but did not work out that way.

I am aware of many first-hand reports from 4-5 years ago when these guns came out that reported their frustration; many sent back to the manufacturer for replacement with 1-28 twists.  Traditions wouldn't do that for you though.

For what I paid for this gun, I'm willing to tinker with bullets and loads. I am hoping to shoot 405 grain hollow base, but will enjoy playing with different loads and projectile combinations.
I love a challenge!

alan

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

My winchester apex had a 1:28 twist and shot awesome with a 405g (385g actually) Lyman paper patched conical and 80g pyrodex select. 1" groups @ 100 yards. That was my first ever load i tried and it shot great.

I think andyhass is thinking of TC's poorly made .45 with the 1:20 twist and from what i've seen from other tc owners who've owned one, They had washboard barrels. I also believe TC replaced those barrels with 50cals because of the poor engineering of the .45s they had.

[AndyHass]

My winchester apex had a 1:28 twist and shot awesome with a 405g (385g actually) Lyman paper patched conical and 80g pyrodex select. 1" groups @ 100 yards. That was my first ever load i tried and it shot great.

I think andyhass is thinking of TC's poorly made .45 with the 1:20 twist and from what i've seen from other tc owners who've owned one, They had washboard barrels. I also believe TC replaced those barrels with 50cals because of the poor engineering of the .45s they had.

I was indeed talking of the 1-20 twist, because that's what he asked about....  It wasn't just T/C, pretty much all the 1-20 by all manufacturers had similar problems.

[vabowhntr]

I was indeed talking of the 1-20 twist, because that's what he asked about....  It wasn't just T/C, pretty much all the 1-20 by all manufacturers had similar problems.

Not in the Whites....

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

I was indeed talking of the 1-20 twist, because that's what he asked about....  It wasn't just T/C, pretty much all the 1-20 by all manufacturers had similar problems.

Not in the Whites....

Doh! Ya beat me to it!
I hardly doubt it was ALL manufacturers

[AndyHass]

I was indeed talking of the 1-20 twist, because that's what he asked about....  It wasn't just T/C, pretty much all the 1-20 by all manufacturers had similar problems.

Not in the Whites....

That's why I said "pretty much" -- TC, Traditions, CVA for sure, and I'd have to check but I thought Knight had one too.  No, never heard of an issue with the Whites, but people tend to shoot big long conicals out of them so that may be an explanation.  They act different than typical saboted rounds.  Lots fewer people try to shoot those conicals out of the aforementioned guns so there's not enough traffic on the boards to assess how they worked there.

Doh! Ya beat me to it!
I hardly doubt it was ALL manufacturers

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

what cva had the 1:20 twist?

[tn_junk]

That's why I said "pretty much" -- TC, Traditions, CVA for sure, and I'd have to check but I thought Knight had one too.  No, never heard of an issue with the Whites, but people tend to shoot big long conicals out of them so that may be an explanation.  They act different than typical saboted rounds.  Lots fewer people try to shoot those conicals out of the aforementioned guns so there's not enough traffic on the boards to assess how they worked there.

It is my intention to shoot long conicals out of this gun. Most probably paper patched.

alan

[oneshotonekill]

I have a 20 twist TC blackdiamond xr I bought a few years back and it shoots pretty good.  I bought one of the early ones with the fast twist for an experiment I wanted to try.  All I can say about it is with .358 180SSP bullets and the right powder charge it will group good out to 300 yards.  Rifle bullets much longer than that didn't do well unless I was shooting pretty hot loads.  It did ok with the pistol bullet/sabot loads but I never really tried to find a load for them.  Never tried any conicals in it, when I bought it I wanted to see if I could get higher BC rifle bullets to spin fast enough to be stable.  Now with dead centers and even SST's the BC is close to or better then the rifle bullets I was shooting.     

[AndyHass]

I have a 20 twist TC blackdiamond xr I bought a few years back and it shoots pretty good.  I bought one of the early ones with the fast twist for an experiment I wanted to try.  All I can say about it is with .358 180SSP bullets and the right powder charge it will group good out to 300 yards.  Rifle bullets much longer than that didn't do well unless I was shooting pretty hot loads.  It did ok with the pistol bullet/sabot loads but I never really tried to find a load for them.  Never tried any conicals in it, when I bought it I wanted to see if I could get higher BC rifle bullets to spin fast enough to be stable.  Now with dead centers and even SST's the BC is close to or better then the rifle bullets I was shooting.     

I am aware of at least one individual who put a custom fast-twist .45 barrel on a Savage and made homemade sabots to shoot .308 rifle bullets out of it.  I can't remember if he used a duplex sabot strategy or just one clamshell design -- I think he duplexed.  The targets were rather impressive -- but he needed the speed of smokeless to make it work, and I believe the twist may have been faster than 1-20" though I do not recall offhand.  If I had the spare change I'd put a smokeless barrel and custom plug on a Rem700 to try this.  But I get all the range I really need out of my Omega and I think that'd take some of the fun out of it.  I like smoke

[30-06man]

But I get all the range I really need out of my Omega and I think that's take some of the fun out of it.  I like smoke

I have to agree. That's one reason I still don't have the Savage Smokeless yet. Traditions has the new Outfitter ML which is like the Encore except every Wilson Barrel including the 444 and the 50cal ML barrels have a very fast twist of 1 in 8 which leads me to believe they haven't the slightest clue what they are doing. They also import what I believe is Simmons scopes with their name on it now. I would just avoid them.

[AndyHass]

Seriously??? a 50ML barrel with 1-8" twist???  WOW.  I think the sabots would just strip through the rifling.

My first two MLs were Traditions, first a caplock then an inline.  I got lucky with the caplock, except for the trigger pull heavier than the rifle which I needed to get filed down it was a decent cheap gun that took a lot of deer over nearly a decade before it mysteriously lost accuracy.  But my buddy bought its twin at the same time and it was a garbage gun from day 1.  The inline I bought from them, while accurate, was downright dangerous and the design made it stop reliably firing 209s within 2 years so.  It was also downright dangerous without a heavy trigger pull (fired when you closed the bolt).  That's the only firearm I have ever sold.

No, I agree, I don't think they have any clue what they are doing...

[30-06man]

Yeah thats what will happen and its posted right up on the site with every barrel for their Outfitter