Author Topic: Why the War was fought  (Read 7835 times)

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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2008, 04:54:54 AM »
The North might make an issue with power mongering on the side of the South and trying too hold the union hostage too their personal desires.
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TEXAS, by GOD

Offline wncchester

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2008, 07:02:12 AM »
"The North might make an issue with power mongering on the side of the South and trying too hold the union hostage too their personal desires."

Huh?  The South was "power mongering" and holding the Union hostage?  And for whose "personal desires" was it done?

Your statement sort of presuposes that the North was innocent of any attemp to dominate the Union.  That's not so.  The South's position had not changed one iota from the days of signing the Decaration of Independance.  The North's position had changed, very much, for years and for economic "power" reasons of it's own.  They had started taking steps to negate the provisons that formed the Union at its beginning. 

It became obvious to the most casual observer that the North was determined to change the conditions that had been hammered out at the formation of the Union and it was they who caused the problems.  Southerners eventually had no choice but to quietly allow the North to rape the South's agriculteral base, for the enrichment of the North's rapidly growing industrialization, or say, "No thanks" and exit. 

As it turned out, the South got raped anyway.  But most would admit it was under strong objection and in the face of overpowering resorces and man power.  Sorta like any of us here would, I hope, defend our family from any external agressors who are detemined to do them harm, even if we were out numbered and out gunned. Such resistance may not succeed but it does save the defender from the ignomy of groveling in cowardly submission to the greater force. 

So, in the face of historical facts, perhaps you could reevaluate your statement of who did what, to whom?
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #92 on: September 27, 2008, 02:11:41 AM »
Gentlemen,

I have read and re-read this entire post several times and I can honestly say that I have learned more about The Civil War from these posts than I did in high school.

I am from NY so naturally I was raised/taught to think that the war was fought over slavery.

THANK YOU very much for opening my eyes and teaching me.
I honestly appreciate it.



Spanky

Spanky, I will add myself to the others who have welcomed you, as they did I will say THANK YOU to you for your desire to learn the truth. I take it that no one forced you in here, and as most of us are on the same mission as you, to learn the truth; Welcome. 
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #93 on: September 27, 2008, 03:03:46 AM »
The North might make an issue with power mongering on the side of the South and trying too hold the union hostage too their personal desires.
Blessings

Oh dear, you really believe that?? Everything I've ever read on our history from the beginning the Northern/Federalist/radical has put their whole faith in Manifest Destiny. Douglas may have coined the term early on before his debates with Lincoln but that belief system has been with us far longer. As Jefferson said "Beware the government that can give you everything you want; for it is big enough to take everything you've got."

The South did not want the war that was thrust upon it; it only wanted to leave in peace. All of the screaming by Lincoln about the Union being threatened was nothing more than that "Screaming fire in a crowded room." The only real threat was loss of face and a little tax money as only 6 out of 33 states left; in the beginning. This is where Lincoln's lack of Experence and Stubbornness gets us all into trouble: First he was more than willing to go to war to prove his point (rather than find another way out) and Second he just knew that he could win said war in 90 days or less and last but not least he misjudged a very large portion of the Citizenry in thinking that they lacked the will to fight him.

I'm with Yoda on this one "Wars do not make one GREAT." We had several problems back in 1860, did the war solve any of them, truly? No, not even one. So sad.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2008, 09:35:27 AM »
Well, let's see here.
Yes it is true. The South did threaten too leave if the North applied any pressure.
Is it true that the South Ignored the methods given to present their grievences in the design of the Constitution?
Well! NO. But it is true that when they lost and were outvoted they did.
Now as far as manifest destiny and furthering their territory--do you forget the blood of the Missouri Border Wars.
You must remember, also that Texas was near to being a border state and their lot was not completely behind the Confederat cause. Texas was embroiled in as great a war down on the Neueces Strip and with the Commanche's in North Texas.
Blessings 
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2008, 01:47:05 PM »
What in heavens name does any war have to do with the belief that this Country has an OK from God for White Male European ancestry leadership to run over all other's feelings and take their lands by force except that it is the results of said belief. I seem to remember that, in HS, we were taught that the US didn't do such things. So much for what we were taught. Hmmmm!
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Spanky

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2008, 03:26:46 PM »
I can't help but wonder how things would be today...
If only... The roles were reversed.       Dare I say??    Better??
I think so.

Thank You for welcoming me.



Spanky

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #97 on: September 28, 2008, 01:01:10 AM »
I can't help but wonder how things would be today...
If only... The roles were reversed.       Dare I say??    Better??
I think so.

Thank You for welcoming me.



Spanky

I used to think so but WL does have some good points A Confederation is not very workable and there has to be balance. The more I read the more I get the feeling that if Lincoln had left well enough alone only 6 States would have seceded and with time, I believe, would have asked to be reinstated. Meanwhile the slavery question would/could have been handled in such a way as to not end up being "thrown to the wolves" as they were because of the wars result. Just how different might race relations be if that mess were handled in a better way?

I do think the original intent of our Constitution would not have been trashed, as it has been, and we as Americans would be much freer than we are today. I really fear for our civil liberties, just look at what Lincoln did in overriding the Constitution and then GWB and the Patriot act. That's just my 2 cents, for what its worth.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #98 on: September 28, 2008, 02:24:07 AM »
Men, in the magic of their minds, feel that if the put the blame on God they are set free from any consequences.
Manifest Destiny is a simple excuse for conquering in the name of greed and power and blaming God for giveing them the right.
Does God know what/when/where before what/when/where. Of course! This is not always a right too do it.
It IS simple logic that there was a territory too be had, it would take force too do it, and men who saw the economic gain/power/glory/heroics if they did it.
YES! I believe the South was looking for room too grow---too not remain static--and expand their empire----and the continued use of the economic tool of slavery.
Let's look at Mexico today, as an example. They have economic slavery as a basis for their system. The basic difference is ownership---but is there really any difference.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #99 on: September 28, 2008, 07:06:21 AM »
Men, in the magic of their minds, feel that if the put the blame on God they are set free from any consequences.
Manifest Destiny is a simple excuse for conquering in the name of greed and power and blaming God for giveing them the right.
Does God know what/when/where before what/when/where. Of course! This is not always a right too do it.
It IS simple logic that there was a territory too be had, it would take force too do it, and men who saw the economic gain/power/glory/heroics if they did it.

YES! I believe the South was looking for room too grow---too not remain static--and expand their empire----and the continued use of the economic tool of slavery.
Let's look at Mexico today, as an example. They have economic slavery as a basis for their system. The basic difference is ownership---but is there really any difference.
Blessings

Well said, as to the first part of your post, men do need a reason to legalize the wrong that they do. We are such cowards that way.

I disagree that the South was land hungry, for the want of it, but only to try and maintain the status quo in Congress. The phycial lay out of the land proved that slavery wasn't viable west of east Texas and the border States as well as Virginia were already trying to think of a desent way to kill slavery.

I do agree and have said so before that it would have been better to stay and try to work within the system but they chose not to, so be it.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #100 on: September 28, 2008, 04:02:22 PM »
In the light of objective reasoning there are some very good reasons for westward expansion.
It keeps neighbors from your doorstep---or---someone is going too settle this area anyway. It would be good if it were our nation.
Our troubles with Mexico were a good reason too want an anglo settlement coast to coast.
That sounds better than greed, doesn't it.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #101 on: September 29, 2008, 01:24:10 AM »
In the light of objective reasoning there are some very good reasons for westward expansion.
It keeps neighbors from your doorstep---or---someone is going too settle this area anyway. It would be good if it were our nation.
Our troubles with Mexico were a good reason too want an anglo settlement coast to coast.
That sounds better than greed, doesn't it.
Blessings

Not really, just gives it a different color, greed is greed. Men who are obsessed with power never have enough. As Val Kilmer said in Tomstone "He has a bottomless hole in the pit of his stomach that can never be filled." They are like bullies in the school yard, no more, no less.


"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #102 on: October 01, 2008, 02:37:56 PM »
I hate too agree with you. :) ;)
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #103 on: October 03, 2008, 04:26:52 PM »
I hate too agree with you. :) ;)
Blessings

Hurts, don't it?? :o ;D
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #104 on: October 04, 2008, 07:36:47 AM »
Well, it just goes too show you how close we really are.
See ya in three/four weeks.
Blessings
Bill
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Why the War was fought
« Reply #105 on: October 04, 2008, 08:24:00 PM »
Ok.
Take care and Peace.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP