Will we ever see $3.00 a gallon gas again?

[DalesCarpentry]

I am truly worried about our country. The cost of gas and diesel is ruining this country. With the high fuel costs everything we buy is going way up in price. When it hit $3.00 a gallon I was upset that it was costing me more than $100.00 to fill the tank on my Silverado that would only get 12 miles to the gallon. Before you say I should have been driving a truck with better millage. I needed it for my work and there is no way around it. When it reached $3.00 a gallon I felt that it was a temporary thing and just wondered when it would drop back down to $2.25 or so. Now that it is $4.00 a gallon I am sure this is not temporary and will never get down to $2.25 ever again. Do you guys think it could ever drop to even $3.00 a gallon again? Our higher up guys in our Government need to get their heads out of their asses and do something about the cost of fuel before it is to late. I really think it is possible in the near future to see at least $7.00 a gallon and you can forget about it if we have a bad hurricane season and have to shut down refineres and oil platforms in the Gulf. If that were to happen who knows how much it could go to. Dale

[rockbilly]

I think the only way you will ever see gas below three dollors a gallon will be to travel to one of the countries we import from. 

[deltecs]

Gas will go down when America reduces its dependency on oil.  Amazing advances are already being made in fuel cell developement on small scales enough to propel an auto for most people that runs solely on water.  Genermax just debuted an auto in Osaka, Japan yesterday that runs on fresh, salt, or clorinated water as it's sole fuel source.  It gets 80 Km on a quart of water by using an electrified membrane to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water.  A standard battery starts the process and movement on the tires runs a generator that supplies the electricity needed for the membrane.  A replacement membrand is needed about every 1,000 gals of water.  No expensive metals are used in the membrane for replacement, so is relativel cheap.  Somehow, it seems this membrane or filter type, uses very little current for the sepatation of the water atom compared to more common fuel cell technology.  If it works as intended, it would revolutionize the propulsion in autos and may even be used for large trucks, boats, or home generation.  I think it is a matter of time before we will all be using some type of fuel cell for some or most of our energy needs in the auto industry.  But in the interim, expect to bite the bullet on fuel prices.

[torpedoman]

If the government still had regulations on speculators gas would still be 1.50 There is no shortage of oil and no over demand on it it all has to do with speculators driving up the prices. If oil was released from the stragic reserve at a low price they would go bankrupt and this nonsense would be over.

[buffermop]

Unfortunately the only way the people in Washington will get their head out of their ass is if OPEC shuts the supply valve off to America. Only then would you see some quick results.

[ironglow]

  Dale; Not likely ! I have been an observer of the price fixing of petroleum since the early 1950s, since that is when I started driving. Prior to the 1960s we used to        
   see "gas wars" between brands. This was especially prevalent where the various suppliers competed directly. I recall a particular corner some 12-14 miles from where
  I now live. There were 4 filling stations on that intersection.Mobil, Gulf, Texaco and my friend ran the Sunoco station.
    A gas war started on that corner, at which point gasoline was .39 per gal..the "war" continued until the price war finally levelled off at .19 per gal.   Yes; the oil companies
  did used to compete..Older drivers can recall when stations were "full service", bragged about their "clean restrooms" and even provided free roadmaps ! The attendant
   automatically checked your oil and cleaned your windshield while some with "super service" m,ay even check your tire inflation pressures !
            The sea change came about just a bit later.....OPEC formed in 1960 with 5 (mid east) members; a start..but still not enough clout to affect the world oil market
  in a severe way. In 1973, 9 more members joined..then they did have some clout ! Perhaps some will recall, it was 1973 when the first "oil embargo" started. This move  by
  OPEC was encouraged by the fact that the US had just elected a very weak President !
       Since that time oil prices have risen or receded by the whim of OPEC ! Here's the pattern;

      1) OPEC turns down the spigot, nations groan..but keep buying..
 
      2) OPEC turns back the spigot a bit more..prices skyrocket..

      3) Finally, the oil consuming nations decide to exploit their own natural resources, or develop alternate energy sources.

      4) OPEC meets, doesn't want consumers developing their own resources..agree to crack the spiogot open just a tad more;
           then sits back to listen....
     
      5) If the consuming world breathes a sigh of relief, and a cautious "thank you", and start to decide "maybe drilling offshore,
      developing nuclear energy or oil shale won't be necesary"..OPEC keeps spigot in place ..

     6) If the consumer nations would say " %$#*@^* OPEC". We are going to break their stranglehold once and for all ! We will drill,
      build nuclear, drive 40 mpg vehicles, drive less, live in smaller, more efficent houses and develop alternative energy sources..
     OPEC would have to deal more HONESTLY (IMO).
      ...Until then Dale, we won't see $3 oil again..
     
    7) The US and other food producing countries all say "we will not use food for a weapon"..that is hitting yourself with a "sucker punch "!

    Food prices should be tied to energy prices..simply because they assuredly are ! Let the UN (useless nothing) furnish food grown by the
   US, Australia & Canada to the starving of the world..which the food producers will sell to the UN..at prices tied to oil ! It would not be a
   hard case to make that OPEC is the culprit !

    9) Until we do that, we will be at the mercy of OPEC..and people like the Arab countries, Venezuela and Nigeria have none..
      Gasoline prices will fluctuate up and down..always going to new highs..never going back to where the last price launch started from.

     Below, see a couple charts by the Ontario corn producers..it shows how oil started to spike as soon as we had a weak administration and
    OPEC had a virtual monopoly...

[Old Syko]

ABSOLUTELY!  We will certainly see $3.00 per gallon gas again and very soon but it will be in the form of natural gas and LP.

[ironglow]

  News story this morning on Fox;

    Saudi Arabia has decided to ship a half million more barrels daily, and is calling an OPEC meeting to discuss their "problem". If the half million barrels is enough to level
   (not decrease) oil prices and the consumers breathe their usual sigh of relief ..that will about end it !
   If the world's consumer still keep their plans to develop other energies and drill for their own oil, the spigot may crack open a bit more, prices drop to $3.60-$3.70.
   Everybody will be happy (or is the word crazy) and will go ahead and buy the new SUV for town use, drop alternative energy ideas..and want to keep wastelands "pristine", even though oil field operations may IMPROVE habitat.

    I have no delusions that the "corn or circuses" game will continue; I've been watching it for over 50 years !.

[DalesCarpentry]

Ironglow. You have the best explanation of what is going on that I have heard yet. Dale

[ironglow]

  Dale;
  You can see by the post above your last, that "somebody" simply has a political axe to grind ! I have endeavored to show experience over the last 55 years or so.
  With a "free market" the oil producers would compete for the market, just as they did before the late 1960s and 1970s. It is not so much a political thing except
  that the congresses and administrations (of either party) over the years since OPEC was formed, have not properly informed or motivated the people to get
   behind a "Manhattan Project" for energy independence ! They have all been too busy getting re-elected.
             I simply reject the notion that any politician is pure "big oil"..the OPEC princes don't have to cut in any "ugly Americans" so they don't. Besides that, who
  are the Americans involved in the oil companies..they are nearly anybody that has a 401K or an IRA..or simply stocks. Yes, some top oil execs pull down obscene
   wages & bennies, but so do top execs in many corporations.."suck-up" executive boards are not likely to "cross the boss".
       True, much of the oil the companies buy for US use comes from Canada..short supply lines is simply better business. No point buying oil from Canada to ship
    to Italy, then buying oil from Saudi Arabia to ship to the US..not hard to figure out !
         Oil is sold on the world market however, and if oil is bringing $132 per barrel, we can't expect them to sell oil to the US refineries for $100, just because we
  are "good neighbors".
   If we drilled and provided millions more barrels today in the US, that wouldn't lower oil prices just because it was pumped here (outside of transport).. but it could
  break the OPEC stranglehold by using it as a means to provide oil when OPEC wants to close the spigot..they would lose their threat of a cutoff.

      Guys, let's do an exercize in  economics;

   Lets say oil is being sold on the world market today at $132 per barrel..divide by 42 gals..$3.14 per gallon for the raw crude..
  Add transportation from field to refinery..cost of refining ( including maintainence of plant, retirements, medical, insurances, new const etc etc.
  Then the delivery to wholesaler and the wholesaler's ultimate associated costs . Wholesaler ships to retailer, where retailer has many costs.
        Consider that from that barrel comes gasoline, diesel, oils and even low grade stuff for asphalt etc..final prices are scarcely "gouging"..

[ironglow]

  TM;

  Just what are "oil men" ? Roughnecks, tool dressers, platform bosses ? If my IRA has some oil stocks, does that make me an "oil man" ? From my understanding
  (someone correct me if I am wrong), when someone takes an office such as Pres or Veep, they must immediately put their stocks in a "blind trust", therefore
  eliminating the likelihood that such elected officials can engineer their own profits.
   
        Frankly, I think the term "oil man" is a term invented by the looney left..rather akin to "boogey man" or "gremlin"; creates panic among the easily excitable,
  but has little exact meaning beyond the invented term..LOL

  TM..better brush up on "monopolies"..Standard Oil had a monopoly at one time, but it was cracked by our Sherman anti-trust laws. Today, OPEC is the monopoly
  and of course, our anti-trust laws have little or no effect on them. Besides; it is our duty as a nation to protect ourselves from monopolies operating outside our borders.
  The only way we can do this is by energy independence in a multi-pronged effort !
    ALL our elected bodies have conveniently ignored the pressing need for such..too concerned as individuals, with their own 'turf".

    If either of the current pres candidates comes up with a coherent plan for a logical, comprehensive plan to gain energy independence..he will have a "leg up" in
    the coming election, because the problem is likely to be more acute by then..providing OPEC doesn't open the spigot a bit more , just to prevent such an effort !
     ...And they may just do that; knowing just how short many American's attention spans are !
   
  TM; I took special note of your efforts to discredit my post by inserting the term "dirty muzzie OPECers"..totally your term, not one I used. I look at OPEC as
  businessmen; greedy , as many are.. but not necessarily "muzzies", since some of the OPEC nations are not Muslim (e.g. Angola, Ecuador & Venezuela).
   
        OPEC is a monopoly, not a religion !

[ironglow]

  Yep TM !!

   I'm just trying to placate the peasants..because I am part of the Universe-wide CONSPIRACY !..Shhh !..don't tell anyone..

[ironglow]

 On the news early this morning; OPEC calls for an "emergency" meeting for the coming weekend !
   I expect they may do something..not out  of the "good of their hearts", but out of what's "good
  for their bank accounts".
   See my post #5 above..they are getting ready to play us like a fiddle..... AGAIN ! As I said in the
  above post #5, OPEC has seen the uproar in the US about "Drill Now !", and they are a bit shaken.
  They will have to "placate the peasants" once more or we drill and stop our dependence upon them.
        If their meeting runs as they have for the last 35 years or so..they will "jigger" the supply just
  enough to bring oil back down to perhaps $3.75..
     Then 90% of we Americans will sigh a big sigh of relief, fill up our SUVs and wonder what all the
  excitement was about !   ....No need to drill for oil here and have all that mess !The artificially
   "reduced" prices will continue until the ideas about "drill here, drill now" are abandoned.
   Then it's....." away we go again" !

    .....And the beat goes on !

[Sitting Duck]

TM7 & Ironglow:  I enjoy reading what you both write and believe.  I didn't realize the many factors involved in the current (and past) pricing of oil.  Heck, I thought the weak dollar and demands by China, India, etc. were the only source of our woes.

It sounds like it has more to do with speculation than demand.

Keep the posts coming.  I think you both are smart fellows and would hate to see this topic go down the tubes because of "one liners".

[DalesCarpentry]

Well guys crude oil dropped to $118.44 a barrel today. Some are saying it could drop below $100.00 a barrel in the next few weeks. It looks like $3.00 a gallon gas may happen after all. Dale

[30-06man]

I can't wait for the day when we are all diving cars powered by other sources including water and I pay $8 for a gallon of water. You know it will happen and some how it will cause hurt to the environment and we will run out of water. Leave it up to the Dems and it will happen.

As far as oil yes I can see $3 a gallon soon. I paid $4.21 for diesel this morning and it has been on the down fall for the past few weeks. If you go by the past then you will see it won't. If the dems do what they want we will be talking $8 a gallon.

[Cheesehead]

We have a better chance of seeing gas at $20 a gallon as compared to 3 bucks.

Cheese

[billy_56081]

Just wait until the Olympics are over, you will see oil prices scream up to new highs. Better fill up now.

[30-06man]

Just wait until the Olympics are over, you will see oil prices scream up to new highs. Better fill up now.

I am expecting lower prices after the Olympics. China is stockpiling.

[torpedoman]

I was at sea for the 70 "oil crisis" full tankers were laying off the coast waiting for the price to go up it wasn't opec it was the oil companies, they had all the oil they needed at any time they just weren't delivering it to the refineries. It is the oil companies again if they are raising prices because the crude is going up how do they account for the obscene profits seems to me if you raise prices to compensate for supply costs your profit should stay fairly level. but I'm just a dumb ole country boy.

[Casull]

I was at sea for the 70 "oil crisis" full tankers were laying off the coast waiting for the price to go up it wasn't opec it was the oil companies, they had all the oil they needed at any time they just weren't delivering it to the refineries. It is the oil companies again if they are raising prices because the crude is going up how do they account for the obscene profits seems to me if you raise prices to compensate for supply costs your profit should stay fairly level. but I'm just a dumb ole country boy.

Profits have stayed about the same as a percentage (about 9 or 10 percent).  But, people just focus on the dollar amount of the profit.  If the cost, and price, of something goes up 100%, and you sell the same amount, you will make twice the profit in dollars, but your profit margin hasn't changed.

[magooch]

I remember that in the Sixties, the job I had paid about $3.50 per hour.  Gas was about 40 cents per gallon.  Today, that job pays over $30 per hour.  That's not ten times as much as it was in the late Sixties, but it's in the ball park.  If the price of gasoline comes down a little more, we'll be about where we were in the Sixties.

Having said that, it doesn't make me happy to be paying $3.95 per gallon, but it does but it in perspective. 

Someone made a point about the cost of water and I concur; my wife refuses to drink the water that comes out of our faucet, so she buys the water that comes out of someone elses faucet and is put in little plastic bottles.  I'm pretty sure she'd be saving money if she were drinking gasoline.

[30-06man]

I remember that in the Sixties, the job I had paid about $3.50 per hour.  Gas was about 40 cents per gallon.  Today, that job pays over $30 per hour.  That's not ten times as much as it was in the late Sixties, but it's in the ball park.  If the price of gasoline comes down a little more, we'll be about where we were in the Sixties.

Having said that, it doesn't make me happy to be paying $3.95 per gallon, but it does but it in perspective. 

Someone made a point about the cost of water and I concur; my wife refuses to drink the water that comes out of our faucet, so she buys the water that comes out of someone elses faucet and is put in little plastic bottles.  I'm pretty sure she'd be saving money if she were drinking gasoline.

Good point. Every thing is going like it was then.

[DalesCarpentry]

Here is an interesting video. Dale
http://www.americansolutions.com/Blog/Read.aspx?guid=2dc1fff2-3fe1-473f-b20a-a0c5e07e41a5

[gypsyman]

Magooch, me thinks you hit the nail on the head. It's called inflation. I can remember my dad telling me that when he was growing up, a loaf of bread was a nickel.(he was born in 1918) And a trip to the movie theater cost a quarter.(That was admission,popcorn,soda pop, and a candy bar,which was alot bigger than what you get today)  If you go by todays standards, $3 isn't very much. Use to leave .50 for a tip for a waitress. Now if you don't leave a couple bucks, she's liable to hand it back to you, and tell you, you need it worse than she does.(of course that does depend on what kind of restaurant your in, and what you ate)  gypsyman

[Cheesehead]

Is it true that one once of gold will buy as much gas now as it did ten years ago?

Cheese

[Sheila]

Well guys crude oil dropped to $118.44 a barrel today. Some are saying it could drop below $100.00 a barrel in the next few weeks. It looks like $3.00 a gallon gas may happen after all. Dale

Hopefully  it will drop to $2.00 a gallon.

[DalesCarpentry]

Well guys crude oil dropped to $118.44 a barrel today. Some are saying it could drop below $100.00 a barrel in the next few weeks. It looks like $3.00 a gallon gas may happen after all. Dale

Hopefully  it will drop to $2.00 a gallon.

Boy I would be tickeled if that were to happen!!!!!!!!!!! I am just hopping for at least $3.00 a gallon again. If it got down to $2.50 I think I would throw a party. Dale

[torpedoman]

the little skirmish in georgia will drive the price back up thats were europe gets most of their oil.

[ironglow]

  Let's just hope that if gas ever comes down to liveable prices again, we Americans don't become complacent, and decide....
  "Well, I guess all the hub-bub about drilling and a comprehensive energy plan was nothing we should be concerned about..no need to be in a rush !!"

   If we do that (for the umpteenth time), OPEC will give us a short "breather"..then tighten the screws again..

   Remember, politicians, especially Congress..need pressure from the voters, if they are to respond..we've seen it all before, haven't we !