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Offline Sourdough

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Heating with Coal
« on: June 17, 2008, 07:05:03 PM »
North Pole Coal is delivering coal for $110.00 a ton.  Compared to the fuel oil I had delivered yesterday at $4.54 per gallion, coal to deliver the same amount of BTUs, would workout to $0.95 per gallion.  Thinking about going with the coal.  That means I would have to install a coal burning boiler outside and plumb it into my home heating system.  It would take two years to recoup the cost of the boiler.  Sooner if oil goes up to the $6.00 mark as they are expecting.  Coal has gone up $5.00 in the last five years, looks pretty stable.

 Fuel Type           Approximate Heating             Quantity of Fuel Required            Estimated Local Cost       Calculated Cost
                           Value of Fuel                       for Equal Quantity of Heat

Alaskan Coal       16,000,000 BTU/TON                     1 Ton                                 $110.00/TON                $110.00

Natural Gas        100,000 BTU/THERM                   160 THERMs                            $2.55 THERM                $408.00

Propane           92,000 BTU/GAL                         173.9 GALs                                $2.85 /  GAL                 $495.60

#2 Heating Oil      140,000 BTU/GAL                      115.0 GALs                              $4.50 /  GAL                 $517.50

Wood               20,000,000 BTU/CORD                     .8 CORD                               $195 /  CORD                $156.00

Wood Pellets     16,000,000 BTU/TON                    1.0 TON                                  $245 / TON                  $245.00

Electricity                  3413 BTU/KWH                   4688 KWHs                              $0.095 / KWH                $445.36

Comparable Price of Coal In Per Gallon of Heating Oil Terms:  Heating Your Home With Coal is Equivalent To $0.95 Per Gallon Of Home Heating Oil   
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Offline Tencubed

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 05:22:42 AM »
We used to burn some coal in a kitchen stove quite often.  The wife liked it, in addition to the wood, when she was baking bread or, if the weather was really cold, toasting her bunns.   :)   

Couple of disadvantages we found were the clinkers that would form on the grates, they were the proper coal grates, and the smell of the burning coal.  We didn't have any neighbors nearby but the coal smoke was somewhat foul a lot of the time.  Less so if we were burning a combination of wood and coal.

Coal is dirty to handle and if I were planning on using it full time would want a separate storage building and an automatic feed system.  Cleaning the grates on a regular basis can become a bit of a hassle as well.

The cost of operation is certainly attractive, thanks for the heads up.

Mike
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2008, 05:59:45 AM »
Note:  These prices are relevant to Alaska, they may not be accurate for your area.  Alaska has one of the biggest coal mines in the world at Healey, south of Fairbanks.
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Offline BBF

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2008, 06:33:37 AM »
I grew up with coal as the method of heat and cooking. Coke and bitominous as well as anthracite.
It is not the best for cooking since temperature control takes some learning, but for heat I would go for it. We had individual heaters in the rooms instead of a boiler outside. I like the boiler idea since you get your hot water from it as well. If you can get coking coal, it is the cleanest burning of them next to anthracite
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 01:18:11 PM »
I grew up with coal heat.  Carried in a bucket at a time.  That was my job.  Had a small version that we heated water with.  It was dirty.  Maybe less so if you had an outside furnace or a furnace in a cellar.  Our coal burner sat right in the middle of the living room.
At that difference in price, I believe I could live with it. 
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2008, 02:11:13 PM »
I too grew up carrying coal in one bucket at a time.  We had a "Warm Morning" stove in the front room.  In the kitchen we had a wood burning cook stove.  Every morning in the winter the clinkers and cinders had to be knocked down and the ash taken out, before the stove was fired up for the day.  When I became a teenager that was one of my morning chores.  Then when I moved to Alaska I met a friends that heated with the same type of stove.  They were surprised that I knew about starting a coal stove on a cold morning.

If I decide to go this route, I will set the boiler up behind the house.  I will put a carport type of structure up to cover it, and to store the coal under.  I have a friend that uses one.  He loads the coal into it in the morning before work,  Then in the evening when he gets home he shovels in some more, that will take it till morning.  He could load it up so it would last longer but he does not want to.  If he should go away for the weekend, his oil fired boiler will kick in.
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What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 06:35:54 PM »
I was also raised when the term central heat meant a warm morning stove in the center of the house. I Had a  old charted oak stove in colo and once it was going all i ever did was shake it down and add coal morning and night all winter the flue temp stayed at 210 and the house was warm. Love coal heating even with its mess it is no worse than wood.
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Offline BBF

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2008, 06:31:29 AM »
Depending on how fancy you want to go there are auger type feeders available if the coal supplier handles coal dust.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2008, 08:02:01 AM »
Yes, top of the line ones have a big box you can have a dump truck fill as needed.  An auger moves it up to the hopper on top of the unit.  Then as needed it is automatically fed to the boiler.  A good friend of mine is going with that unit, he is elderly and disabled therefore he can't get out and fill it, or check on it daily.  If I decide to go that route I will go with the basic unit, and add a small hopper on top, that automatically feeds the firebox.  That way I only have to fill it every three of four days. 
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What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Rogue Ram

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2008, 10:43:08 AM »
I admit to doing no research, but a hunting pal and I have a question about coal.  Would coal be feasible in say a barrel stove for wall tent camping? He was asking about this awhile back and this thread reminded me. His main concern was how long some coal would last in a stove that would take it, i.e., what amount would heat a tent for the night....   I would guess that it would take quite a bit for a week long hunting trip and wood is the more obvious choice, but was just wondering.

Thanks

RR
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2008, 05:20:54 PM »
It burns so much hotter than wood I don't think it would do well in a barrel stove.
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What Is A Veteran?
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Offline DDelle338

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2008, 01:37:00 AM »
Quote from: Rogue Ram on June 19, 2008, 10:43:08 AM
I admit to doing no research, but a hunting pal and I have a question about coal.  Would coal be feasible in say a barrel stove for wall tent camping? He was asking about this awhile back and this thread reminded me. His main concern was how long some coal would last in a stove that would take it, i.e., what amount would heat a tent for the night....   I would guess that it would take quite a bit for a week long hunting trip and wood is the more obvious choice, but was just wondering.

Thanks

RR

  The coal won't burn properly in a barrel stove. The barrel disipates the heat to rapidly. If it were modified with a fire brick or cast iron container of sorts to hold the coal and keep the combustion temerature up around the coal it might work.
  Now you could just add some on top of a good bed of wood coals and get some extra heat from the burning coal, but not worth it IMO.
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2008, 02:36:50 AM »
Without firebricks, I think the coal would eat up a barrel stove pretty quick. And too, packing in coal when there was wood at the campsite doesn't sound feasible.  :(
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2008, 04:18:34 PM »
Last winter when I went to the cabin, someone had come in and burned up all the fire wood I had left there.  I took my sled up the river where a vein a coal was being undercut by the water.  I brought back a load of coal to the cabin.  We changed the stove, taking the barrel stove outside and bringing in an old cast iron stove that we keep in the storage connex.  Chuck and I both agreed we needed to do that, it only took ten minutes anyway.  As kids we remembered how coal would make the cast iron stoves glow red.  We knew there was no way a barrel stove would hold up to that kind of heat.  In fact it is easy to make a barrel stove glow red with wood.

When we left we changed the stoves back, the Cast Iron stove would not stay long in the cabin.  Someone would take it.  My fear now is that someone will come in during the summer and find the coal we left behind the cabin.  If they should happen to use it in the barrel stove, they will probably burn the cabin down. 
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Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2008, 05:35:03 AM »
Gee Sourdough, what happened to the good ole days when you left your cabins open and the folks using it left it ready for the next guys??  Be kinda tough hittin' your place in the middle of winter and finding all the wood burnt up and the stove stolen.  :(
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Offline snapcrackpop

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2008, 06:26:41 AM »
I'm using corn for heat.  I bought a furnace for the office and a stove for the house when corn was $2 a bushel.
Now corn is $6-7 per bushel. :(
It is still cheaper than gas, but not much.
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Offline BBF

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2008, 06:47:13 AM »
since I live in a mini home I am stuck with electric or propane. Propane is well over 1  Dollar per liter and electic is 10 cents per kw/h. I wish I could use something like coal or corn. I don't have enough land to cut my own firewood.
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Offline torpedoman

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Re: Heating with Coal
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2008, 07:10:51 PM »
coal needs to have a grate to allow it to draw air from under neath it. It will not burn with an over air feed must be an under air feed.
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