.44 Mag Loads for bear

[PaLongshank]

My buddy and I are heading out to Idaho for a combo hunt Elk/Bear/Deer.  We are tossing around the idea of taking along our pistols (both .44 mag - Smith 629).  I was wondering if anyone had a good proven load for bear that you would share with me.
We would probably only be using the pistols for bear if we happened to get lucky on elk,  but it would need to serve the purpose on deer as well.  We will be concentrating on Elk first though and have the big guns to get that job done.  We have killed many whitetails with the pistols but I am a little hesitant to use the same load on black bear as it is a HP load.......

Thanks for sharing....PaLongshank

[GatCat]

For a factory load, the Federal "cast core", 300 gr.
Mark

[Redhawk1]

If you are looking for factory ammo as GatCat posted the Federal "cast core", 300 gr. would be very good. If you reload, get some hard cast bullets from Montana Bullet Works in the 300 to 320 gr. range, they will work for all the animals you mentioned. 17.5 gr of A 2400 is a good stout load for both the 300 and 320 gr. bullets.

[BBF]

Nolser makes a 250 gr PT  Hdy's 300 gr XTP is no slouch either

[corbanzo]

For the most part, anything 300 grain cast over a medium-medium hot powder load will work easily for black bears. 

[Lone Star]

If you want to avoid the hassle of cast bullets, the 300-grain Sierra will not expand at handgun velocities and is a good second choice...if you really think you need that much bullet for black bears.


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[Varmint Hunter]

Nosler 250gr Partition and a max charge of H110. Bears don't like this combination!

[MePlat]

I know Elmer Keith didn't know much etc. and his load is out dated but I still wonder why when one talks of hunting loads his load for the 44 Mag rarely comes up in the conversation.
If I remember correctly it was 23 gr of IMR 4227 and the Ray Thompson 429244 bullet and standard primers.

[Mikey]

MePlat:  The probable reason for not discussing any of Keith's loads is the liability issue.  Some gunwriter is bound to tell ya that you can't use his load data any longer because the powder is different now and you need to use this new stuff or you will at the least destroy your handgun, if not the city block you are using it on. 

Most of this is gun writer hyping of new stuff by creating fears about the older loads and it's pure marketing and nothing else.  Oh yeah, let's not forget that animals are now armor plated and can take direct hits from magnum rounds and walk away to raise a new family........

The old Lyman accuracy load for the 429244 bullet you mentioned is 25 gn of 4227 for 1390'/sec from a 6.5" S&W.  If you drop your powder charge 2 gns you will probably be right in the 1200'/sec range and that should work on black bear.  JMHO and HTH.  Mikey.

[Ak.Hiker]

If you use a 240 grain HP for deer why not just switch to 240 JSP for black bear. The 240 JSP should be plenty for black bear. If you really want to move up in weight take a look at the factory Speer 270 grain Gold Dot JSP.

[Mikey]

J.J. Hack is one of our Moderators who moderates the Hunting in Africa Forum but he has had an incredible amount of experience hunting bear.  I believe he once provided that you will get a more noticeable reaction (my terminology) on black bear from a 44 mag when it's loaded with the 240 gn soft point.  If I recall correctly he provided that when hit they spin around to snap at what bit them.

That being said I still think I would go for something heavier as I am extremely uncomfortable around bear and I think they know it, which is why the only reaction I would want to see from one is having it stretch out and lay down to become quiet and 'rug-like'.......... MIkey.

[Lloyd Smale]

about any 250 grain or heavier hardcast bullet with a decent meplat at the highest velocity you can shoot accurately under field conditions. Id give up a 100 fps if i found a load that shot extreamly well. Ive punched through bear with a 4 inch 29 shooting a 240 swcgc at 900 fps. Dropped that bear in its tracks. Bottom line is though that no load with a handgun is going to gurantee a instant kill. When hunting dear i will put one shot in a deer and let it run off and recover it. With bear i will shoot and keep shooting if i can get off more shots. Ive followed to many blood trails bear hunting and know that doing it in the dark is no fun!!

[huntswithdogs]

I think Lloyd hit it on the head! Whatever you can shoot, the most accurate, from your particular gun! 

[Redhawk1]

If you want to avoid the hassle of cast bullets, the 300-grain Sierra will not expand at handgun velocities and is a good second choice...if you really think you need that much bullet for black bears.


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What hassle with cast bullets???

[JD HHI 6092®]

How about 320 grain Cast Performance bullet?  I used this one on a hog a few years ago on a hunt at Show Me Safaris.   2 hogs were taken with this load during the 3 day hunt.  I don't own a chronograph but the load was safe an very accurate out of my Mag Na Port custom Blackhawk.

I also have had good luck with 295 grain BRP bullets.  I still have about 150 of these bullets left.

[corbanzo]

I've loaded those for bear, and don't for a couple of reasons:

One is trajectory.... not the best.

The other is accuracy, the 300 grn cast performance always gave me better accuracy... for some reason or another, but you might have different experiences.  Probably due to the fact of heavy recoil.  I guess I was shooting them at about 1225fps.....  But really, for black bear, you just don't need that much lead.  Now for a brown bear, I could see you wanting as much lead as possible. 

I was also wondering, where is the hassle in cast bullets?  They don't have any of the issues the jacketed, hp, whatever bullets have.

[COR]

Although you weren't specific as to the type/weight of you current HP why not just use it? Contrary to what you'll read on forums Black Bear are not armored tanks and your deer load is usually adequate.  I am a fan of cast bullets myself but I would not advise you to change now.  If you have a load in your Smith you like I say keep it simple and use it.  Good luck!

[Redhawk1]

Although you weren't specific as to the type/weight of you current HP why not just use it? Contrary to what you'll read on forums Black Bear are not armored tanks and your deer load is usually adequate.  I am a fan of cast bullets myself but I would not advise you to change now.  If you have a load in your Smith you like I say keep it simple and use it.  Good luck!

The reason is good penetration from cast bullets. To many JHP bullets have failed and failed to penetrate.
Yes black bear are not that hard to kill, but most people don't want to have to track them in dense cover either. Also if one has to be trailed, a good cast bullet will make two holes for the black bear to bleed out. Myself, I like to take out the lungs and a front leg or shoulder with one shot, because in most hunting situation in bear hunting, you only get one shot.  So my take on it is, hit them hard the first time. I have never had to track a black bear more than 25 yards.

[PaLongshank]

Thanks for all of the input.....I have 250 300gr Montana Hardcasts on the way...

PaLongshank

[Tom W.]

I'm  a bit late, but you may want to check out www.pennbullets.com

[Lone Star]

What hassle with cast bullets???

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but anyone who has used cast bullets for many years - I started casting in 1970 - realizes at some point that they are just not as easy on the reloader or the shooter as are store-bought jacketed bullets.  To many shooters the joy of casting  and the cleaning of cooked-on lube are considered hassles - just ask a hundred average shooters at any range.  You and I may not agree with that, but then we are in the minority of most shooters. 



.

[S.B.]

If you are looking for factory ammo as GatCat posted the Federal "cast core", 300 gr. would be very good. If you reload, get some hard cast bullets from Montana Bullet Works in the 300 to 320 gr. range, they will work for all the animals you mentioned. 17.5 gr of A 2400 is a good stout load for both the 300 and 320 gr. bullets.

Are you sure about this load? The Aliant website lists 13.5 grains of 2400 as max for the cast 310 grain bullet in a .44 mag.? Typo?

[teddy12b]

I've never taken a black bear, but most of what I've read from people, not magazines leads me to believe that cast bullets are the way to go.  I've never actually made a cast bullet in my life but I've loaded and shot plenty of them.  I don't wnat to get the equipment or be around that much lead to actually make my own.  I've always just bought cast performance bullets and loaded them just like I would any other.  I'm in the process of dialing in what rifle I'm taking bear hunting this year and I'm going to see how well the Grizzley 320gr bullets shoot in my Puma 44 at the range.

[Redhawk1]

If you are looking for factory ammo as GatCat posted the Federal "cast core", 300 gr. would be very good. If you reload, get some hard cast bullets from Montana Bullet Works in the 300 to 320 gr. range, they will work for all the animals you mentioned. 17.5 gr of A 2400 is a good stout load for both the 300 and 320 gr. bullets.

Are you sure about this load? The Aliant website lists 13.5 grains of 2400 as max for the cast 310 grain bullet in a .44 mag.? Typo?

No it is not a typo, I have been using that load for many years. In the Hornady book edition 7, it lists 17.1 gr. as its max load for the 300 gr. XTP's  with 2400, I just bumped it up to 17.5 because of the gas checked cast bullet. The reason the data is so low on the Alliant web site for the 310 gr. LSWC,  is because it is not a gas checked bullet they have listed. You do not load non- gas check bullets hot, it will cause leading in the barrels.  Look at the Swift 300 HP load on the Alliant web site, it lists 17.3 gr. of 2400 as the load.
Also compare the jacketed 240 and the lead gas checked 240 gr. bullets, and you will see how you can go up in powder with a gas checked hard cast bullet.  They have the jacketed bullet listed with 18.7 gr. of 2400 and the L (GC) at 20.6 gr. of 2400.
I would not post a load if I thought it was not safe, and my load is safe. 15 years of shooting this same load so no it is no typo.

[Redhawk1]

I've never taken a black bear, but most of what I've read from people, not magazines leads me to believe that cast bullets are the way to go.  I've never actually made a cast bullet in my life but I've loaded and shot plenty of them.  I don't wnat to get the equipment or be around that much lead to actually make my own.  I've always just bought cast performance bullets and loaded them just like I would any other.  I'm in the process of dialing in what rifle I'm taking bear hunting this year and I'm going to see how well the Grizzley 320gr bullets shoot in my Puma 44 at the range.

I used the 300 and 320 gr. hard cast gas checked bullets from Montana bullet works, they are bear busters.

[S.B.]

Redhawk1, have you ever clocked this load and what did you find the velocity to be at 17.5 grains of 2400? I'm currently working with the Lee 310gr. with a gas check.
Steve

[Redhawk1]

S.B., it is at 1250 fps. It is a hot load, but I get no signes of over pressure at all.

[S.B.]

Is that from a Ruger Redhawk or what?

[Redhawk1]

Yes a 7.5 inch Super Redhawk.

[S.B.]

Good deal, I'm working with my 5&1/2" Redhawk but, shouldn't be that much different? I'll back off 10% below your load and work up to it?
Steve