The Republican Party has Abandoned Conservatisim!

[Dee]

I participate in discussions on what is probably the most interesting forum on this web site. "Round the 'Ole Pot-Bellied Stove" is just a great place to be for discussing ANYTHING.
What baffles me however, is this election mindset by the masses. I watched a true statesman (Ron Paul) be "pushed aside" by almost everyone on this forum. The troubling part of it was, is that his voting record was available for all to see, but it too was ignored.
In it's place I saw endless debate on this candidate or that candidate, all of which was usually filled with admissions by their various supporters that his or her candidate had SERIOUS flaws.
As each candidate fell by the wayside, the various participants would switch candidates taking the admittedly "least worse" each time. Now we are where I suspected we would be. John McCain! And once again, everyone is holding their noses and talking about the lessor of two evils, i.e. John McCain.
That the Republican Party has ABANDONED the "Conservative Agenda" has become obscenely obvious, but what is most baffling, is so called Conservatives REFUSE to abandon the Republican Party. They still hope for "political crumbs" to be tossed their way, in the form of Supreme Court Judges, and 2nd Amendment Rights.
That Mr. McCain is a liberal elitist cannot be denied. That he ignores the will of the people cannot be denied. His stance on immigration is but one example. His voting 73 % of the time IN FAVOR of gun control bills is but another.
The scariest part of this whole scheme, is that not only many of the folks on this forum vote this way, but most in the nation will not see, that they have been abandoned by the Republican party. They will continue to accept these crumbs, until they will no longer be offered. And then, it will truly be too late.
Too few Americans now a days are willing to step out of the crowd, and stand alone if necessary. Too few Americans are willing to take the hit, in the effort to set things right again. AND! Too few Americans can see farther than the next four years, and suffer the consequences of doing what's right, instead of something promised, that never appears. TMO

[billy_56081]

So you guys are gonna vote for Obama?

[oldandslow]

Guys, let me let you in on a little secret. Neither the democratic or republican (I refuse to capitalise the names) have represented the interests of the American people for a long, long time. The only thing either party is interested in is staying in power and reaping the benefits of that power. It just took the republicans a little longer to get to that point but both have always been more about power than country.

The mindset of the masses is truly the big problem. The majority of the people seem to center on what this or that candidate will do to take care of them personally, not what will improve the country. The far too few of us who truly care about the direction the country is being forced to go by the liberal masses are just spitting into the wind.

As for me, who would be the presidential candidates was basically decided before my state held it's primary election. McCain was in and Obama was already conceded to have the votes. So all I have is what was decided for me by all the liberal states that hold early primaries. The little dab of votes from NM doesn't count for anything in a national election anyway, so I'm stuck with the lesser of evils and have been for the 52 years I have lived here. When I moved to NM the democrats dominated the political spectrum from local political hack to the governor's office so I registered democrat when I became eligable This was the only way to vote in the primary and have some say on who was elected to office. Most of the time there wasn't even a republican running in the local races. Now there are few democrats running for office in my local neck of the woods. So in total disgust with John Kerry, Bill Richardson, and most democratic choices I changed my registration to republican. It is the only way I have a say in local elections. This year there were three republican candidates for county commissioner for my precintc and no democtats. I am truly an independant and vote for what I think is the best choice in November. Independants cannot vote in the NM primaries so to register as an independant would give me no say in who runs in the general election. I don't like it but it is reality as opposed to idealism. That is why it is McCain this fall as I am presented with no other choice. Don't particullarly like it but I can't stand the alternative.

I too enjoy "Round The 'Ole Pot-Bellied Stove". I just wish some of the participants could be more civil to one another. Something else that bothers me is the tendency to belittle with names like "Hitlery" an "Obamanation" and so on. We are all adults (I think) and wish we would act like it.

[lrs]

I still dont fully understand how McCain got to be the nominee.  Some have stated that democrats crossed over during the primarys and voted for him, thereby selecting the republican nominee.  I am not sure I believe this, but whatever the case is, he is it now.
I admire the courage he demonstrated as a fighter pilot and a POW.  I respect him as a bona fide American war hero.  I can safely say I don't how I would have conducted myself, had I been in similar circumstances. 
If McCain were any kind of conservative, I believe the election would be his, and he would walk away with the presidency, winning the election in a landslide.
But he is not a conservative, I'm not sure what he is. 
He reminds me of a liberal democrat.   Campaign finance, McCain - Feingold, McCain - Lieberman, amnesty for illegals, how does this party think McCain will win?
He just might be the next president.  Obama is such a horrible choice, I think people might show up in the tens of millions, just to try to keep obama and his nut job wife out of the oval office.
McCain will have to win without my vote though.

[beemanbeme]

Okay Dee, you have made your point several times.  And no one is disputing you.  At least, no me.  But you have pointed out the problem. You are leaving out part of the equation.  What is the solution?  A WORKING solution.  Considering the mind-set of modern America. I have pointed out that Young America now expects to start out where their parents ended up after a life of labour.  They want the big, new car NOW.  The big home NOW. The two week resort vacation NOW.  Instant gratification in all things.  You tell Young America that it took 50 years to get in this shape and it'll take at least 20 or 30 to get out of it AND  it's gonna take a lot of self discipline, and even, gasp, shudder, doing without some things, you are tuned out. IMO, this started in oh, say the 60's when "profit" and "capitalism" and even "corporation" became dirty words.  When folks (on both ends of the "work" force) started demanding more and more for less and less.  
  But anyway, what is the solution?  The solution certainly isn't going into some sort of pout and voting for the cow-kissing candidate or not voting so when our country lays in ruins around us , you can say "it's not my fault, I didn't vote for him! neener, neener, neener".
In truth, does anyone think with the "ME" mindset of modern America, that things can be turned around before it's too late?

[ms]

I'm not voting for either party no more grabbing the ankles for me.

[magooch]

When you say the Republican Party has abandoned conservatism, you mean that people who vote in the primaries have abandoned conservatism, you are right.  It certainly wasn't that there were no conservatives to choose from.  

As I see it, it's the people--the voters who have to take the blame for where we're at.  I think the process is the problem.  Anyone can vote in the primaries and you don't have to be an actualy member of any party.  Primary elections are a perfect example of the over application of democracy.  I think we'd get a better candidate if only the hard-core, card carrying party members got to choose the candidate.  At least then it would be the Party that made the choice and not a bunch of milk toast, wishy washy, pseudo, unprincipled, masses.

I even have to wonder if that third world messiah that the Dumbycrats are saddled with, would have been their choice if the real party people got to make the choice--especially now that they can see that this guy makes an empty suit look good.  On second thought, maybe I'm giving that outrageous, traitorous bunch too much credit.  If they thought that Osama bin Ladden would get them back in the White House, they'd have flushed him out of whatever hole he's hiding in and run his ass.  On third thought, hell, in effect that's what they've done.  

We are SCREWED.

[lrs]

I think most folks agree with your last statement.
I've got a bad feeling about this.  It seems like every week now things are worse than they were the week before.  I'm getting damn tired of it.
I think everyone should go out and learn martial arts, zero in their favorite rifle, and buy a case of ammo.   
If 10 million Americans did this I bet someone would wake up. 

[Sitting Duck]

A country who's population is, by and large, ignorant and apathetic deserves the outcome of this election.  Just as we deserved the result of previous elections that have gotten us to our current state of affairs.   

Loss of freedom won't motivate people.  It happens so slowly that many don't realize that those that came before actually had a particular freedom.  And being apathetic and ignorant they think that is just the way it is.  They never give a thought to changing anything because, well, they are apathetic.

Loss of disposable income won't motivate either.  As long as the person next door has a comparable standard of living, regardless if it's lower than last year, most are content to accept their lot in life. 

Pain will motivate.  Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to hit people over the head and scream "wake up"! 

I think one state seceding from the Union will be a wake up call for those people that still think for themselves.  Once others see the benefit(s) of truly following the Constitution there will be an exodus of people and states from the current Union.  Granted, we will be starting the process all over again but maybe we can get it right this time.

Apathy and ignorance are conditions not diseases.  When I think about what it would take to initiate a change in the conditions, I just throw my hands up.  What the hell.... Let's just hit them over the head and scream! 

A little apathy on my part, methinks.   

[Dee]

So you guys are gonna vote for Obama?

billy_56081, drink the cool aide if you wish. I think everyone here is capable of making their own decisions. I am voting for a candidate that is PRO-CONSTITUTION, and PRO-BILL OF RIGHTS. That IS NOT Obama, nor McCain.

You on the other hand are voting for a liberal elitist named McCain. To sarcastically say that me or "we" as you put it are voting for Obama, is both laughable, and sad on YOUR part.
 
While I am voting PRO-CONSTITUTION and PRO- BILL OF RIGHTS, "you on the other hand" are voting LIBERAL, yet criticizing ME. Now that's funny!

You are delusional by thinking that a LIBERAL such as McCain will appoint conservative Supreme Court Judges, and you are delusional to think that McCain whom has voted anti-gun 73 % of the time will help you in that regard either.

You contentious remark about our opinions is just that. Contentious! Your opinion does not make you right. You walk with the masses, because you don't know what else to do.

beemanbeme, I do not have an answer for the masses. They are like lemmings. They follow the piper to the water. As I said in another thread, in the 1780s the French did what Americans are doing now. Debating, and settling for less, which is actually doing nothing. Until children actually started going hungry and the mothers of those children went into the streets protesting for bread to feed their starving children, the men of France, did what the men of America are doing now. Enter the French Revolution. Not stepping out of their appointed box, and just voting business as usual, and then criticizing folks whom are thinking for themselves, such as billy has done here. Hunger usually wakes people up. We are not yet hungry, but we are getting there, faster than we think. As was said, this did not happen over-night, and not too long ago, the Republicans were in charge, and they also did nothing. Both parties have sold the American people out, and yet many continue to support the liars, as they continue the lie.

[beemanbeme]

Dee, still no solutions.  And what you are talking about is anarchy and literal starvation.  It's not as simple as "damn, I'm hungry, I think I'll change my voting patterns". It will be mobs and gangs roaming the streets and countryside.  Of course, there will immediately bring out macho types that will say "ah'll defend mine" which sounds good but when those big-eyed starving kids that the professional money grubbers send you pictures of start showing up at your door, it's a different story. The countryside stripped of edibles, plant and animal, so you can forget the Danial Boone idea.  Your little food patch would require guarding 24/7 and, never forget, there will be folks just as determined as you to feed their families. They just don't have the knowledge or space but they have the armament.
And too, while the French Revolution was going on, there wasn't the Hun(s) waiting in the wings like we have. 
I don't have an answer either.  I just think we're running out of time.  Maybe I ought to learn how to play the fiddle.

[Graybeard]

Voting for a third party candidate at the national level is NOT a way out. It is NOT an answer it is at best a cop out. You KNOW up front the candidate you are voting for will lose and yet do not care. You know that each vote that would have gone to the lesser evil that instead goes to a third party candidate is one less vote to keep the GREATER EVIL from being elected.

Vote as you wish that is what this country is all about at least for a little while longer not a lot longer mind you but for a little while longer. Well no actually I guess it really isn't even that now as it's not so much voting for whom you wish but for whomever those truly in power have given you the chance to vote for.

Early on we had choices lots of choices really some pretty good but none perfect and little by little our choices were whittled down to what we now have left is a choice of McCain or obama a closet muzlim who's lies are fooling no one into thinking he is really a Christian.

Yet so many care not that he is what he is and is lying about it after all that's what politicians do isn't it they lie to us and tell us what they think we want to hear and the sad reality is that is what most really do want to hear. The only thing he's really said is to repeat the word change over and over and over again. Change to WHAT however he has not bothered to tell us. Why? Well simply because the pollsters tell us folks are unhappy with things as they are now.

Why the hell are so many so unhappy? I truly do not understand. For most folks the vast majority of folks in fact they are living better right now than at any time in their lives. Most folks have more home, more cars, more food more of everything it is they want right now than they or any generation before them ever have had. So what the hell is so bad about status quo?

Really there is something bad about it and that something is that we are slowing losing our freedoms for that MORE we crave and demand. The real reason is that the folks who want something for nothing rather than being willing to work for it are voting the folks into office who will give them that something for nothing. The ignorant masses have no understanding of the fact that it can't keep on forever and that soon those who will not work for more will not only not have more but in fact will soon have nothing.

Those who will not work to earn what they want can live on the backs of others only so long as there are enough others willing to work and pay taxes to support them. When their votes make it so that those willing to work and earn more cannot do so any longer for whatever reason then there will be no one to take from to give to them.

You can damn well bet the rich and super rich are not gonna feed and clothe them or pay for their hand outs it's the middle class who do that and when that middle class is pushed out of existence there will then be only the rich/super rich and the poor/super poor and no one in between on who's back the do nothings can ride any longer. They will then starve or revolt.

The problem with the later option is that at that point in time they will have no means with which to revolt cuz they will have by then already given away and given up all their options that allowed them to have that freedom of choice. We're rapidly giving up freedom for promised safety and even tho we all know that promise is a lie we want it as a nation so badly we don't care that we're giving up freedom in return for empty promises. Those too lazy to work and earn a living are for the moment being given what they crave in return for their votes to take away all those options currently open to them to make changes that would matter.

No voting at the national level whether for President or for US Congress for third party candidates saying you refuse to hold your nose and vote the lessor of evils is merely a cop out and you are in fact just giving up without a fight same as those who refuse to work for a living do.

The ONLY option that makes sense is to select the best choice you have at the national level while voting the best period at the local level and getting in there and working hard to help make sure that at the local level good candidates are running and are supported by working for/with them and donating money to them so that they can get elected locally. Only by electing good candidates at the local level will they ever become noticed and viable at the state level and only when good viable candidates are holding office at the state level will they ever have a hope at the national level of winning.

To vote otherwise is to toss your vote in the trash can and if you can't see that then I am sorry for you and even more sorry for me and the rest who suffer from it. It's time to wake up it's time to get realistic about our options and what can and can't be done to change things. Voting third party locally and taking the best available no matter how much or how little better they are at the national level is the only way to begin the turn around needed to get us back where we want to be.

Quite frankly I believe it's already too late to turn it around. At this point the military have been brain washed to believe that our government and those who run it are good and those who want to change it are bad. They will almost to a man or woman take up arms and fight the citizens of this country who take up arms and try to change the way things are back to the way things are supposed to be. Without them on our side no one who wishes to rise up and fight to return to the US Consitution and freedom would stand a chance of winning. Anyone who tried would last about as long as Saddam's troops lasted. Sure we might for awhile at least fight the kinda battle the bad guys are fighint over there now against our troops but I doubt it.

They are being allowed to do what they are because it serves the interest of those truly in charge to allow it so the war can continue. They could crush them in a heart beat should they wish to if it were in their interest to do so but it is not. Those truly in charge do not give a whit about our brave young folks in the military they care only about making themselves richer and more powerful. I'm not even sure that this country is being run by Americans anymore.

Big money is big money and it really matters not where or who controls it those who control the money control the world. Less and less are those likely to be Americans by birth or name even if born here they are not REAL AMERICANS who care for this country and for what it stands but only for themselves and how to make themselves richer and more powerful. It is a cabal of rich and super rich located all around the globe who truly control things and decide the fate of us all even tho many still think they have an input they are merely pawns doing the bidding of those truly in power.

So sure waste your vote, toss it in the trash can or do whatever you wish with it while it is still yours to do with as you see best to do with it for now. Even now it's not truly yours to do with as you wish because if it were you'd actually have decent choices to make rather than the piss poor excuses that are available even now in third parties.

I've said it before and will say it one more time. The ONLY way to turn this around IF and that's a HUGE IF in my opinion it is not already too late. Vote for the very best at the local level. Work your ass off to help those best folks get elected locally for only by getting their feet wet at the local level will they ever have a hope of moving up the ranks to where some day good candidates might again be viable at the national level. Until then look at who actually has a hope of wining nationally and while there are no good choice there are better and worse choices and those really are your only choices unless you wish to put on a blindfold and pretend that by voting for someone else you are upholding some standard you imagine you must. If your vote would go to McCain in the lessor of two evils contest and you fail to do so then no it's not a vote for obama but it might as well be as it's one less to stop him.

I am not at all sure that it is possible to still turn the tide and reverse things back to where the US Consitution has meaning and where FREEDOM not servitude rules but I do know that blinding voting for a person who cannot hope to win the Presidency and then still voting for one of the big two at local levels is not gonna make that change. Nope vote right at the local level get some good candidates in the process to move them to the point where they can actually win at the national level and until then hold you nose if that's what it takes and do everything you can to keep the very worst out of office otherwise it's all for nothing and the long slow march down that slippery slope will continue until there is nothing left and the US is like the Roman Empire just a fleeting memory of the past.

[Sitting Duck]

GB.  So... Voting for anyone other than an anointed mainstream candidate is a cop out?  I disagree and would like to add that this mindset is largely responsible for our situation now.  If our citizens had been voting for what's best for our country and not themselves this topic would never have been started.

I would like to believe in your second to last paragraph but unfortunately the system is too corrupt.  As these good/respectable politicians (is that an oxymoron?) move up the food chain they become the very essence of what we despise in politics.  There are exceptions such as Congressman Ron Paul.  I'm sure their are others but I'm unfamiliar with them and apologize for slighting them.  I'm convinced that this country's woes can't be fixed on a national level because of the greed and corruption.  At a state by state level, yes.  And only when the states and its people take back control of this country again can we move forward as a nation.

Your cop out/wasting a vote scenario if I don't vote for one of the sanctioned candidates doesn't hold up under scrutiny.  Herd voting has gotten us where we are today.  In my opinion, this country would be a whole lot better place if people were to start thinking for themselves again. 

You assert that our "quality of life" (my words not your's) is better now than it has ever been.  Because we have more stuff.  I guess it depends on your definition of quality of life.  I disagree with you.

I would hope that everyone votes for who they think is best for this country.  Not for who the media, political party, or online forum shoves in our faces.

That's my take on this and I'm sticking with it.     


     

[oldandslow]

Thanks for posting that, Graybeard. Makes me feel better to see that I am not alone in my thinking. I really can't understand how voting for a candidate that has absolutely no chance of winning and helping what is the worst candidate for president there has  ever been get elected is the right thing to do. I keep thing of Ross Perot (no, I didn't vote for him) and how he gave us Bill Clinton. Clinton was pretty bad in my book but I think he will look pretty good when compared to what Obama will do.

[billy_56081]

I agree that Mc Cain is a horrible candidate, that said he is millemiums better than Barak Hussien Obama. I am not voting for Mc Cain insomuch as I am voting against Obama. Yes it is your right to vote for whoever you choose. If you choose to vote third party you may as well stay home that day. You are wasting your vote as those who voted for Perot, and gave us Clinton and on the other side of the coin the democrats that voted for Nader caused the last 2 dem candidates to lose to Bush. NoDee I won't drink the cool aide, but I will let my enimies drink it, and I might feed it to a few of them unknowingly.

[Oldtimer]

What GB said!

It would make me feel good to vote Libertarian, but the election may be so close that doing so might just be a vote for Obama, in effect, though not in fact.  We have seen Perot put it to Bush I and Nader put it to Gore.  I don't want to be on the list of those who gave the ball to the other team. 

[powderman]

Graybeard is right. A vote for Mccain is a vote for Mccain. A vote for a 3rd party is a vote for obama. The ONLY way to beat obama is to vote for Mccain. POWDERMAN. 

[Sitting Duck]

Gosh, if the majority had supported Perot instead of Clinton or Bush we would be 16 years into the restructuring of this mess that we've gotten ourselves into.  Instead, we are currently looking at the lesser of two evils for salvation?  Give me a break!  So electing McCain means that we won't get bent over quite as far as if we elected Obama.  That's a pretty sad commentary, considering there was/are alternatives with third party candidates.

Sixteen years after Perot, we have Ron Paul who's message differs somewhat from Perot's but still makes more sense than the mainstream Republican/Democrat front runners.  Unfortunately, we can't see beyond the R/D party affiliations and do what's right by the country.   

Well, after four years of the new President (whichever one) we will be making the "lesser of two evils" choice again.  The people will be fed up with congress and vote in a Republican majority to both houses and probably elect or keep a Democratic President to provide balance.  This fixes nothing!  Been there done that!  Heck, we even had a Republican President with both houses being controlled by the Republican party and still accomplished nothing.  If Obama gets elected the Democrats will have a like scenario.  They won't accomplish anything either.  Congress is ineffective and needs to have their powers severely restricted.  The states have to do this or secede in order to survive.

For those of you that feel voting for a third party is a wasted vote, I can only disagree with you.  I think we all see what voting the party line has gotten us.  Amazingly, we keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.  Well, good luck with your expectations.

See you in four years.  I have a feeling that these posts can be copied and pasted back into this forum then and be quite apropo.   

[Echo4Lima]

Is the saying "A bad Republican is better than any Democrat"  the way of this election?

The 3d party thing, while making a point, will put Obamman in there.  Is that a good idea?  McCain probably wont put conservatives on the court but might make a mistake and appoint one.  With Obamman, you'll get a Ginsberg no question!

The problem with 3d party candidates is they usually come off in the campaigns as a little "far out there".  My beef with Paul was'nt so much him, it was the people backing him.  What I'm about to say isnt meant to insult anyone, but so many of the Paul supporters sounded, for lack of a better description, as rabid as we see and hear from the far left. Thats what pushed me away from him.

This election I will not be voting FOR anybody.  I will be voting AGAINST somebody. 

The man is right!  A vote for Paul now will be a vote for Obama just as a vote for Perot was a vote for Clinton. Sorry, thats the brutal truth.....

[beemanbeme]

Sitting Duck, under our PRESENT SITUATION what GB outlined is our only viable option.  If you elect the most sterling person in the world at a local level and then just ASSUME he is gonna be fine and send him up the political ladder without keeping an eye on him, you end up with just another hack politician. The pressures on him are immense.  He quickly gets mired down in the good ole boy system of scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. And graft. What may start out as a seemingly innocent "favor" by a well-wisher can escalate into plain, unmarked packages of $$$ . And this is before you get beyond the state level of politics.

If eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, it is also the price of honest politicians. 

What you need to do, just as soon as this election is over, contact Ron Paul and say "put me in coach.  I'm ready to start right now, handing out tracts, knocking on doors, talking to my friends, whatever it takes to make you a VIABLE candidate in the next election."  Don't wait until 6 months before the next election and say "gee let's get this ball rolling".  You can bet your bottom dollar that Hillary is planning her strategy for 2012 even as we speak.  

[powderman]

Perot ran a real campaign, unlike the Johny come latelys we now have. I was going to vote for him and he was well ahead of the other 2 in the polls, then he dropped out. Until there is a 3rd party that will really campaign they are just spoilers. Obama is evil, and the only way to beat him is Mccain, period. POWDERMAN. 

[Fazak]

GB quote:

They are being allowed to do what they are because it serves the interest of those truly in charge to allow it so the war can continue. They could crush them in a heart beat should they wish to if it were in their interest to do so but it is not. Those truly in charge do not give a whit about our brave young folks in the military they care only about making themselves richer and more powerful. I'm not even sure that this country is being run by Americans anymore.

Big money is big money and it really matters not where or who controls it those who control the money control the world. Less and less are those likely to be Americans by birth or name even if born here they are not REAL AMERICANS who care for this country and for what it stands but only for themselves and how to make themselves richer and more powerful. It is a cabal of rich and super rich located all around the globe who truly control things and decide the fate of us all even tho many still think they have an input they are merely pawns doing the bidding of those truly in power.

.
Agree,,, with what you said. Agree with Dee's French Revolution analogy, Pourquoi, laissez-nous mange la gateau. And so really when you get right down to it there is no real difference between Obama/McCain in the government's war against we the people...our enemy just has two heads, IOW.

But so IOW what you and others are saying then, is the only vote that will really count and mean something is therefore the vote for a REAL candidate, otherwise we're looking at fifty ways to prepare cooked goose. The masses thinking outside the media train could pull this off if people vote to just reject all the crap they're feeding us....including the only assumed choices they're giving us.

So as I read this thread the real danger is that the average American has become conditioned to accept mediocrity as the standard, to accept compromise as always the choice, to accept downward morality, to accept corrupt lying government, to accept that we are going to pay for it as well, etc.  WELL,,,there is another choice....IF YOU WANT IT.

Agree with the act locally think nationally idea,,, a must do.

..TM7

The struggle that is currently taking shape in America is much the same as that which has existed throughout history. It's based on class,.. and the government is the enforcement arm of it.

American governmental influence is flagrantly bought and sold by the monied interests which not only exist in America,.. but worldwide.

As the working and middle classes attempt to cluster into groups of self interest based on race or political ideology, we're all being slowly digested in the belly of the beast,... and you can't vote your way out of it.

[kevthebassman]

Unfortunately, or nation will get exactly what it deserves.  We're a nation made up of probably 70% fat, lazy, idiotic slobs.  Lot of people can't even be bothered to register to vote, much less get informed about a candidate and support them.  A lot more are registered to vote, but are too stupid to see past the little (D) or (R) behind the name.

No, we won't have good government until we stand up and demand it, and considering the fact that most of the fat, stupid slobs soiling this fine nation with their presence are also at least somewhat happy fat slobs, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[deltecs]

Unfortunately, or nation will get exactly what it deserves.  We're a nation made up of probably 70% fat, lazy, idiotic slobs.  Lot of people can't even be bothered to register to vote, much less get informed about a candidate and support them.  A lot more are registered to vote, but are too stupid to see past the little (D) or (R) behind the name.

No, we won't have good government until we stand up and demand it, and considering the fact that most of the fat, stupid slobs soiling this fine nation with their presence are also at least somewhat happy fat slobs, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Thus by using this logic, let's put our unity behind the only VIABLE candidate McCain, continue to let him know via mail and personal opinion messages of our constructionists views, and start now for 2012 to get a really good conservative back in the White House.  Don't forget to vote against any liberal Congressmen, regardless of what they have done for your area as they haven't done anything for the country as a whole.  That is why the pork barrel spending.  Let's campiagn for more local candidates with a commitment toward less government and taxes.  Let's campaign locally for more stringent crime control and punishment.  Let's campaign for minimum sentences for violent crime without the possibility for parole enacted by law.  Let's campaign against domino lawsuits that fault the manufacturer or business for doing due diligence in its management.  Let's drop and dismiss frivolous lawsuits that blame someone else instead of the perpetrator, including our children.  Let's stop bickering about the worst of 2 evils, try and find the common ground to keep our conservative views by preventing known liberal and communistic policies, and flood the media in opposition to editorializing articles instead of printing unbiased news.   That's what we can do now, not tomorrow, and without compromising our integrity by voting for the best of 2 evils.

[beemanbeme]

I can't remember who said it nor the exact quote but it kinda goes: " a republic is good until the people realize that they can vote themselves favors and easements (or people that will give them favors and easements), then they start downward..."  I think we've reached that point.

The Romans had their games that were games of physical prowess and skill that degenerated into spectacles.  We have "reality TV" and NASCAR. 

[lrs]

I agree with the title of the thread, republicans have abandoned conservatism.  We have now been through 2 election cycles, republicans have lost more and more seats in house and in the senate.  Now we have McCain.  I'm as puzzled by this as I can be.   It is like they WANT to lose elections.  It sickens me to think of the Republicans being rewarded for abandoning their base.  If the Republicans lose this time, maybe they will get the message.
Trouble is look who the winner would be. 
I don't know if we survive 4 years of obama. 
Anyone care to made any projections of what 4 years of this idiot, along with a democrat controlled house and senate, will bring?

[magooch]

Bemanbeme, we reached the turning point in our democracy a long time ago.  We're just staying on course.  It will change, only when we can no longer borrow our way out of debt, or when it occurs to the younger generation that there will be no goodies left by the time they work their way up to the trough.

[jager]

Our nation is a "Republic" with an "electorate" in place to represent the "will of the people"; we have never been a "Democracy", and it never was the intention of our "framers" to make us one. Democracies like the Greek and Romans had were marked by constant "civil war" and anarchy with "Dictators" chosen to rule the masses (in some cases by the military). Ever since the 1930's we have gone from an economy that was mostly based on agriculture (75%) to an industrial economy (less than 2% independent farmers) that is becoming more and more concentrated in large urban centers. Partly because of these large urban centers, we find voting "blocks" of people unable to sustain themselves without depending on some type of government services; thus, they become more aligned with "government" (any government, Fed, State, and local) that can provide these services. Since politicians remain in power by promising services, whether it be the health, education, or defense; as long as the electorate is convinced of their future success they will have a job. We have most states dominated in numbers, thus politically, by "urbanites"; thus we see NYC and Chicago "outvote" the rest of their respective states. When our citizens were less dependent on state and federal governments, we seldom took political "promises" serious and relied upon ourselves for the welfare of our families. If you look at your current state government's budget for any given year you might notice that up to 1/3 of the money your state receives in revenue is from the Federal government (my state receives 6.8 billion of a 21 billion dollar budget). Because of this money, most of which is not "earmarked" for a specific task, the Federal government is allowed to make decisions on your health care, road system, EPA and OSHA standards in the work place, hiring practices, educational curriculum's, etc., etc. It is no wonder our nation is "drunk on the way" to becoming a "socialist state". As one voter put it, "saying yes to 'term limits' is like say, please don't let me vote for that idiot again". It's hard to get off the welfare state that promises so much when we are never told the cost until tax time. Most people are too busy to keep up with the politicians, who work daily at passing "feel good" legislation continually to make government growth inevitable at a ever increasing cost to us. We only occasionally hear about how our money is "wasted" while we have plenty of "clues"! We now take the "easy way out" in obtaining the new. We are educated and "updated" from the "Boob tube" on what is happening in this world; but for the most part the new agencies have become as lazy about reporting the news as we have about obtaining "truthful" sources. Their "spokespersons" have become the news "stars" and since 1968 the big news outlets near Washington D.C. have "intentionally", or unintentionally become a political party without a big "d" or "r". I say 1968, because even though we won the "battle of Hue City, they convinced our country that we lost the war (probably even surprised them); then they found they could cause the "fall" of a "sitting" president it embolden them further. Later we have seen where they can convict public figures, who are nothing more than "flawed humans" with big titles, without a hearing or trial; impugn reputations on a "whim", and imprison the very people who help protect out defense and borders. The big news outlets know how corrupt our politicians are and can "reign them in" at any time if they fail to be "politically incorrect". Our politicians no longer represent us the people, but themselves and are in a  constant "campaign" through the media to stay in office and in power. We have to break this hold! I believe Ron Paul to be a good man (statesman as well), but he was never given a public forum by the big media outlets and was "doomed". The media gave us "our picks" based on money, PR timing, and nonparticipating of the people with their "Representatives". If we are to make any "marked" difference in our system, it is going to have to start (as GB stated) at the local levels of government, not at the top. We have to persuade people who "qualify to vote" show up at the "polls" who vote their "values" (not the "weak" 14 to 25% voting turnout we usually get). I also believe we "desperately" need "term limits"; we have them for the "highest office" in the land, why not for the rest of the "elected officials?". I do not "chastise" anyone for not wanting to vote or voting for a candidate who meets "their specifications", least of all Dee and those like him whose families have paid such a high price as citizens of this "Country" to keep it "free".  I hope to see another real "conservative" in my life time come back to the rescue of our country, just like Reagan after he got the organization and "backing" behind him to defeat Carter, after being defeated by Ford in his own party. (After all, George Washington had to come back to rescue the "Constitution" early on in our history.) I don't see us surviving a revolution, like the French (look who they got to run the country after theirs!), I don't think we could agree on a "leader" or trust him to not become a dictator. We do have it "easy" in our society and with this ease it has brought "complacency" and "irresponsibility". History runs in cycles, I'm sure my Grandfather had some "choice words" to express his feelings about the "Roaring Twenties" followed by the "Bread lines" of the '30's. We had our first tests of the 21st century and I'm fairly certain that it will be followed by many more that will help determine whether we let government tell us how to react, via the media, or we tell them how we are to be "served".  Regards, Jager

[Echo4Lima]

jager,  You've hit the proverbial nail. 

[torpedoman]

democracy or the one man one vote has always failed and always will fail due to the fact that when the majority finds they can take from the minority with impunity they will they always have and always will. I am a nonpracticing smoker but just look at the way all states are robbing the smoker (don't worry it is for their own good)with outrageous taxes. The majority is robbing a minority, oh this is going into a fund to pay for increased medical care caused by smoking (you believe this and i want some of what you are smoking).  The masses in the population centers control the states votes and this is were the liberals that want to take from the rich to give to the poor get their power This is were the welfare goes. The rich will always be the minority, the poor the majority, Don't worry the liberals will only keep a large portion for service and handling charges. Look at the life style and homes of the Russian rulers under Communism and the typical workers lifestyle